Clone Beer Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone

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Trying this one next weekend. changed it a bit kinda like others I have seen.
adding 2 oz oak cubes soaked in about 1/2 an airplane bottle of makers mark, 1 split vanilla bean in to the secondary for 30 days and adding .5 lbs of lactose to boil.

Looking for a KBS / Dragons milk kinda brew.... what do ya think?
 
Yay! Brewed this yesterday, and it's fermenting like a SOB.

I neglected the nibs, so went with an entire 4 oz bar of ghiradhelis 60% cacao bittersweet chocolate, and 1.75 oz of chocolate velvet coffee at knockout.

The sample was really chocolaty. Not too much coffee. My Og was 1.084. I plan on bottling in about November.
 
Yay! Brewed this yesterday, and it's fermenting like a SOB.

I neglected the nibs, so went with an entire 4 oz bar of ghiradhelis 60% cacao bittersweet chocolate, and 1.75 oz of chocolate velvet coffee at knockout.

The sample was really chocolaty. Not too much coffee. My Og was 1.084. I plan on bottling in about November.

You are bottling in November or unveiling in November?

How long is your primary and secondary respectively?

You can do a 3 primary and a 4 week secondary and then age from then on. But if you are bottling in November then your primary much be quite... extensive.

In any case happy brewing to ya and hope it works out.
 
In case anyone cares the new Jim Beam Devils Cut has a big oak finish too it. I may just use this without the oak chips/cubes.
 
hi folks,

i took inspiration from Dubbel Dachs' original recipe and will be brewing this bad boy on saturday: http://hopville.com/recipe/1362602/american-stout-recipes/breakfast-of-champions-stout

thoughts & feedback always welcome. i wanted a slightly lighter version, ABV-wise, so i trimmed back all the grains. looking back now, i should have pulled down the dark malts a bit more... this one might be intense on the roast barley/choc malt/black patent flavors. or not. time will tell.

my recipe uses a pound of belgian pilsner only because i have it sitting around and it needed to be used, so i sub'ed it in for a pound of 2-row. and i'm using some DME to limit how much base grain i have to hoist around in my bag.

wish me luck!

has the debate been settled on whether the IBUs are all from hops, or whether some of the IBUs come from the coffee and other ingredients? folks that brewed with 60-70 IBUs from hops, did it taste about right?
 
hi folks,

i took inspiration from Dubbel Dachs' original recipe and will be brewing this bad boy on saturday: http://hopville.com/recipe/1362602/american-stout-recipes/breakfast-of-champions-stout

thoughts & feedback always welcome. i wanted a slightly lighter version, ABV-wise, so i trimmed back all the grains. looking back now, i should have pulled down the dark malts a bit more... this one might be intense on the roast barley/choc malt/black patent flavors. or not. time will tell.

my recipe uses a pound of belgian pilsner only because i have it sitting around and it needed to be used, so i sub'ed it in for a pound of 2-row. and i'm using some DME to limit how much base grain i have to hoist around in my bag.

wish me luck!


has the debate been settled on whether the IBUs are all from hops, or whether some of the IBUs come from the coffee and other ingredients? folks that brewed with 60-70 IBUs from hops, did it taste about right?

I brewed mine with about ~80 IBUs from hops + whatever you got from the chocolate bars & coffee. Mine also ended up at 9.8% ABV. For as big as this beer is, the hops balance everything out nicely so it's not too sweet.
 
hi folks,

i took inspiration from Dubbel Dachs' original recipe and will be brewing this bad boy on saturday: http://hopville.com/recipe/1362602/american-stout-recipes/breakfast-of-champions-stout

thoughts & feedback always welcome. i wanted a slightly lighter version, ABV-wise, so i trimmed back all the grains. looking back now, i should have pulled down the dark malts a bit more... this one might be intense on the roast barley/choc malt/black patent flavors. or not. time will tell.

my recipe uses a pound of belgian pilsner only because i have it sitting around and it needed to be used, so i sub'ed it in for a pound of 2-row. and i'm using some DME to limit how much base grain i have to hoist around in my bag.

wish me luck!


has the debate been settled on whether the IBUs are all from hops, or whether some of the IBUs come from the coffee and other ingredients? folks that brewed with 60-70 IBUs from hops, did it taste about right?

Recipe looks like it would produce a complex set of flavors, I would go for it!

Please keep us posted, I am really curious about this one.

Happy brewing.-
 
Recipe looks like it would produce a complex set of flavors, I would go for it!

Please keep us posted, I am really curious about this one.

Happy brewing.-
hey, thanks! as if the flavors weren't complex enough already: i was shopping this evening for last-minute supplies and came across some relatively cheap vanilla beans. 2 of them are currently soaking in bourbon, i'll keep them there for a few weeks and pitch the lot into secondary along with the cold-pressed coffee. this beer could end up being the best thing i've ever brewed, or it could end up being a complete train wreck. can't wait to find out! (unfortunately "wait" is the operative word here... i suspect this batch will take many months to mellow out & hit its prime).
 
Damn it! I decided to use this brew to try out my new copper manifold I had made.
Hit all my temps on the nose, collect my wort and my pre-boil gravity is 1.044 instead of the estimated 1.067 (based on 72% eff). :(
I am freaked out and a little depressed at this point.
I did some calculations and threw in some DME to make up for it and ended up with a final gravity of 1.093 instead of the estimated 1.086.
Guess I added to much.
Oh well, see how it turns out.
Now the bigger issue is where the hell I went wrong with my manifold, I assume it must be that as its the only thing I have changed and was consistently hitting 70-75% previously.
 
here is my update on my brew, as copy'n'pasted from my hopville recipe page:
Based on "Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone", by Dubbel Dachs. Belgian Pilsner added only because I had an extra pound sitting around that needed to be used, anyone attempting this recipe should skip ii favor of using only 2-row (i.e. use a pound more). Sole purpose of the DME is to limit how much grain I have to hoist in my bag (I use BIAB), you should feel free to go with all-grain. I've got Sumatra for the flame-out addition, per the recipe; but will be using Whole Food's Rainforest blend for the cold-steeped secondary addition, which is described as "Sweet aromas of cocoa and toasted almonds balanced with a mild citrus sparkle and a long caramel finish". Sounded like a nice stand-in for Kona. UPDATE1: brewed on 5/26. Took a lot longer than expected, mostly because I got the end of my mash and realized that I didn't add the oats. So while everything else started the boil, I made a min-mash on the side, in another pot, with grains stolen from future recipes. This required re-calculating the use of DME... one big mess. But all is well that ends well: less than 12 hours later, I had a happily bubbling carboy of proto-beer.
i will be transferring to secondary this weekend, just short of 5 weeks in primary. will bulk age for another month or two then bottle. i haven't taken a gravity reading yet so i'm anxious to find out what my FG is.

i have two questions you folks who have experience with this recipe:

1) has anyone else ended up with a chocolate-colored foamy layer floating on top of the beer, well after fermentation has ended? it looks like a cross between krausen and chocolate mousse. i lightly shook the carboy once to rouse the yeast and the foam broke apart into chunks but eventually reformed into a semi-solid layer on top. i'm traveling at the moment, i'll post a pic when i next return home.

2) what has been the concensus on the use of vanilla beans? i have two average-quality beans that have been soaking in bourbon for 5 weeks. i'm wondering if i should pitch half or all (i.e. use 1 or both beans?). i'll probably start with half/one when i transfer to secondary, then taste after a while or at bottling. if it needs more vanilla, i'll add more then.

thanks!
 
The answer to 1 is a resounding yes. And I love chocolate mousse so it's hard not to stick my face right in it!
 
The answer to 1 is a resounding yes. And I love chocolate mousse so it's hard not to stick my face right in it!
ha! well i'm fermenting in a carboy so i won't have a chance to face-plant myself in it. by the time i have direct access to the mousse it'll be mixed in with the trub since it'll be after bottling.

anything i should keep in mind when racking to secondary with this layer of choco-fluff? should i try to leave it behind, or do i want to suck it up? my gut feeling is to try avoiding it without worrying too much.
 
I just made it this last weekend, and I put half the batch on Wyeast 1728, the other half with S04. Curious how the two will differ, if much at all. I'd wager with such strong flavors, the yeast won't play a major role.
i wouldn't take that wager, 'cause you're almost certainly right.

any updates?
 
About to fire up the kettle.

Plan to add the coffee at right at flame out, and the nibs at around 5 minutes so as to not boil them to long. Chill it down and rack it all to primary.

Secondary will have chips from a Woodford Reserve barrel( and soaked in more WR), and then whole bean coffee, and perhaps some more nibs if the chocolate feels lost.

Can't wait!

I'm just hoping the coffee addition early is right.. Some add it at flame out, some boil it. Some leave it in primary, some bag it and remove before primary. Some steep it and add later.. Whole lot of different ways.

I like coffee, so I'm planning on doing it right at flame out so it's not boiling for too long, and will be added right before I start the chiller. Leaving it in the primary shouldn't hurt anything.
 
Finished it up a few hours ago, and it's in the fermentation freezer now.

Wort smelled great, tasted decent too, really roasted and had that coffee bite. Ended up roughly 1.075 OG, I made a 5.5 gal batch, as I wanted a bit more, and didn't quite care about the ABV on it as much.

Strained the whole shootin' match after I cooled it, it was just slap full of crap, coffee, nibs, hobs, trub..

Added the chocolate at 5 minutes, both the powder and nibs. By the time it was mixed in well, it was time to turn off the flame. Added the last .5oz of hops, and the coffee then, and started cooling it down.
 
racked my batch to secondary on friday, after almost 5 weeks in primary. LOTS of gunk got stuck in the hops bag i used as a filter on my racking cane. ended up ditching the bag and racked the last third unfiltered.

FG was a mildly disappointing 1.027. part it of may be due to how much crap i have in suspension in the liquid. not sure if i'm going to leave it there, or call in the big guns (AKA wlp099). thoughts?

on the upside, with the amount of flavors in there, bitterness from the coffee, etc i think it could easily stand to be a little sweeter. sample was good, but it was so late, i was several brews in and i was so tired that i don't clearly remember it. i'll taste again a few days after i add the cold-pressed coffee and make a call then.

could also have been the yeast. i used a pack and a half on this batch, and the other half a pack on a SMaSH, and the smash also didn't attenuate quite as low as i would have liked. i pitched per the amounts recommended by mr malty, i rehydrated, fermentation looked good... maybe i just got some lazy bugs. oh well :mug:

EDIT: just had a look at DD's original post, and i see that he went 1.086 --> 1.023. that makes me feel a lot better about my 1.081 --> 1.027. hopville was estimating 1.021, but that seems a tad low to me given the ingredients.
 
Just finished brewing, ended up at 1.083. Still haven't dialed my MM2, only got 68% efficiency. Anyway, sample tasted great. Used 2.5 oz of Hershey bittersweet chocolate, 1.5 oz nibs and 2 oz of Folgers Black Silk coffee. I have the Kona to use at secondary, think I'm skipping the bourbon this time around. I'll post back in a month to report my FG, hoping for around 1.020 with 2 packs of S05.
 
Mines been in the primary for a week I think now.. Has already dropped the krausen, and it's slightly bubbling away, not really going wild, and has been kept at around 64/66 consisently.

Anyone have an suggestions on chips and bourbon?

I have around 2 or 2.5oz of chips from a bourbon barrel, that have been soaking in bourbon for 2 weeks now. I think I have around 4oz of bourbon in there. Dump it all? Add more? Less?

I'm gonna taste it regularly to see how it's coming along, but wanted to see what others have done.
 
Anyone have an suggestions on chips and bourbon?

I have around 2 or 2.5oz of chips from a bourbon barrel, that have been soaking in bourbon for 2 weeks now. I think I have around 4oz of bourbon in there. Dump it all? Add more? Less?
2.5 oz of chips and 4 oz of bourbon won't be too much in a 5 gal batch. other have added a cup of bourbon or more. you're good to go.
 
Thanks for the reply. I've taken a hydro sample tonight after a bit over a week of fermentation. Looks like it's nearing the end, or is pretty much done doing the big work.

1.020 gravity already. Pulled a sample and Oh. My. God. it smelled amazing. If I didn't have to dig into a chest freezer in a 90* garage, I would have drank the whole 5.5 gallons on the spot. I have around a good 2.5 or 3 inches of trub on the bottom of the carboy. Man it looks crazy, and I strained this damn thing of all the large chunks and hop garbage!

Mixed my sample with a bit of vanilla, and and bourbon to just... maybe see what it would profile as. I liked the overall flavor, and I know it's not carbed any, and I know my measuring of the bourbon was just a tiny dribble for a whole sample worth, but I don't want the harsh bite of the bourbon, but just the mid level profile on the palette, not up front.

I'm gonna drop the whole 4 oz in there with the chips and see.. Worst case, I can add bourbon and taste it in a few days, rather than try to take it out!! LOL

EDIT:

Also, what is everyones take on adding cocoa nibs AND the coffee beans to the secondary? I'm gonna rack it over on some beans that I'm gonna slightly crush, but probably just split down the middle with a knife, and toss in there with some nibs to impart a bit more chocolate with the coffee. Right now the coffee flavor is upfront, but it's really, really balanced with the chocolate, more than I expected.

My secondary will be a mess when I'm done. Coffee beans, cocoa nibs, and wood chips.
 
Mine is chugging away on day two. Anyone else not get much Krausen? I just have some skummy bubbles, for the record I'm finding dry yeast never Krausen's like liquid for me.
 
Mine is chugging away on day two. Anyone else not get much Krausen? I just have some skummy bubbles, for the record I'm finding dry yeast never Krausen's like liquid for me.
yup. i started off with a very thin krausen. it was mostly really large bubbles - see pix below taken on day 2 i believe, the breakfast stout is on the left in the group shot. second shot is a close-up lit with a flashlight. after primary fermentation was over, a thick mousse-like foam developed on the surface. it wasn't krausen per se, more like fine floating left-over chocolate sludge. i mentioned it 2 pages ago and Dubbel Dachs confirmed that this "mousse" is typical (top of previous page).

20120529_004206 - Copy-MED.jpg


20120529_004534 - Copy-MED.jpg
 
I got maybe 1in or 1 1/2in of krausen rise up when mine fermented with 1056. Mostly some low lying thick bubbly film for the most part. I'm not getting the "mousse" on it yet, or it's passed. Kept my temps pretty low. It's got a MASSIVE cake it's sitting on though. Might be glad I did 5.5 gallons, as it's unreal thick.
 
Took a sample today, one week, I'm sitting at 1.030. Is it too early to be disappointed? Its bubling every 30 seconds or so. It tasted awesome but I was hoping to go closer to 1.020. Started at 1.083, used two packs of S05.
 
sivdrinks said:
Took a sample today, one week, I'm sitting at 1.030. Is it too early to be disappointed? Its bubling every 30 seconds or so. It tasted awesome but I was hoping to go closer to 1.020. Started at 1.083, used two packs of S05.

I'd let it sit there for 3 weeks them check it.
 
if it's still bubbling, there is a solid chance (but not a guarantee!) that there is still fermentation going on in there. 1.083 is unlikely to be done in a week, you should definitely give it another week, if not longer.

however, you're not too far off the mark. did you use all-grain or extract? if extract, you might not get a whole lot lower. remember that the OP ended up at 1.023, i myself am at about 1.026. 1.020 might be a tough goal to reach - and one that you might not want to reach anyways. this beer has a lot of acidic/astringent ingredients. you want some residual sweetness, otherwise you'll end up with pucker-juice.
 
sweetcell said:
if it's still bubbling, there is a solid chance (but not a guarantee!) that there is still fermentation going on in there. 1.083 is unlikely to be done in a week, you should definitely give it another week, if not longer.

however, you're not too far off the mark. did you use all-grain or extract? if extract, you might not get a whole lot lower. remember that the OP ended up at 1.023, i myself am at about 1.026. 1.020 might be a tough goal to reach - and one that you might not want to reach anyways. this beer has a lot of acidic/astringent ingredients. you want some residual sweetness, otherwise you'll end up with pucker-juice.

Good points. I'm all grain. I planned on a 3-4 week primary anyway, most of my brews are usually done fermenting in the first week or so though. I've never had luck repitching or rousing the yeast. Ill check again next weekend.
 
hopvine said:
Estimated Original Gravity: 1.070 SG (1.048-1.065 SG)
Measured Original Gravity: 1.070 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.017 SG (1.010-1.018 SG)
Measured Final Gravity: 1.020 SG
Estimated Color: 65.6 SRM (22.0-40.0 SRM)
Bitterness: 27.0 IBU (25.0-40.0 IBU)
Alpha Acid Units: 9.3 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 6.97 % (4.20-5.90 %)

Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 lb Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 22.64 %
6.00 lb Northern Brewer - Gold (6.5 SRM) Extract 45.28 %
1.50 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 11.32 %
1.00 lb Chocolate Malt (Simpsons) (450.0 SRM) Grain 7.55 %
0.75 lb Roasted Barley (Simpsons) (575.0 SRM) Grain 5.66 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.77 %
0.50 lb De-Bittered Black Malt (Dingemans) (550.0 SRM) Grain 3.77 %
0.50 oz Nugget [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 20.4 IBU
0.50 oz Williamette [5.50 %] (30 min) Hops 6.6 IBU
0.50 oz Williamette [5.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days) Misc
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale

Back then, Founder's listed their IBU's much lower. They appear to have made a correction since then (60 IBU's), so this recipe would actually come in quite a bit lower in IBU's than their Breakfast Stout.

http://foundersbrewing.com/founders/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66&Itemid=66

I skimmed this thread to see if there is an answer and didn't immediately see one. Has anyone figured out the best way to get this to the 60 IBUs? I would imagine you'd want to increase the Nugget, but by how much?
 
The corrected ibu is 60. I raised the nugget to 1.1 oz @ 60. All other additions were the same pretty much.
 
jkendrick said:
I skimmed this thread to see if there is an answer and didn't immediately see one. Has anyone figured out the best way to get this to the 60 IBUs? I would imagine you'd want to increase the Nugget, but by how much?

Use Hopville. It's free and easy.
 
Planned on bottling half and kegging half. Still don't understand kegging volumes. It's always gonna end up being at serving pressure anyway right?
 
Planned on bottling half and kegging half. Still don't understand kegging volumes. It's always gonna end up being at serving pressure anyway right?

Yeah, for the most part. The correct way to do it, is to set your volumes for the "style" that you are using, and then adjust for the balance of YOUR system with line length/pressure/temp/etc.

Most people just carb to a common setting, like 10psi for everything, and keep it simple, and like the carb level they get.

I wanted lower carb, I've got a shorter line, so the lower pressure works for me without an absurbly slow pour.

You could carb it how you like it, and if it's too high for your line/system, you could always purge the keg, set the regulator where you want it to serve it properly. Pain in the rear though.
 
Hey all, sorry I haven't responded in a while, it's been fun reading about the folks making this beer though! Last year I made a similar beer (recipe posted back in ~Oct of last year) and did the bourbon / oak treatment on the beer. This year I'm going to use this recipe again, but slightly cranked up to get just a bit closer to Founders KBS. I'm going in small steps since this is a big beer, shooting for the ~10% to 10.3% range this year. (KBS is 11.3%, mind you.)

This recipe here is invaluable for the coffee and chocolate additions. If you do those methods, it works pretty well.

I'm just hoping the coffee addition early is right.. Some add it at flame out, some boil it. Some leave it in primary, some bag it and remove before primary. Some steep it and add later.. Whole lot of different ways.

This is a fun topic. Just like homebrewing; there's no wrong way. I personally added at flameout and cold steep during kegging last year. It tasted great, but towards the end of the keg (6 months or so) I noticed a "green pepper" character coming out of the coffee. Some people cannot taste this! Some people can!!

In fact, the beer that won 1st place at the National Hombrewers Competition this year in Wood Aged was an Imperial Breakfast Stout with Bourbon...and some of the judges got a distinct "green pepper" where others did not. It's crazy.

SO...for me, this year I will adjust my beer to remove the cold steep coffee and use a "dry beaning" process instead. I will add the Kona coffee to the secondary as whole beans. This will eliminate one variable from last year and replace it with another. I will continue to use the "flameout" boil for Sumatra.

YMMV...but I felt it was worth sharing my experience.

Cheers!
~Adam
 
Hey all, sorry I haven't responded in a while, it's been fun reading about the folks making this beer though! Last year I made a similar beer (recipe posted back in ~Oct of last year) and did the bourbon / oak treatment on the beer. This year I'm going to use this recipe again, but slightly cranked up to get just a bit closer to Founders KBS. I'm going in small steps since this is a big beer, shooting for the ~10% to 10.3% range this year. (KBS is 11.3%, mind you.)

This recipe here is invaluable for the coffee and chocolate additions. If you do those methods, it works pretty well.



This is a fun topic. Just like homebrewing; there's no wrong way. I personally added at flameout and cold steep during kegging last year. It tasted great, but towards the end of the keg (6 months or so) I noticed a "green pepper" character coming out of the coffee. Some people cannot taste this! Some people can!!

In fact, the beer that won 1st place at the National Hombrewers Competition this year in Wood Aged was an Imperial Breakfast Stout with Bourbon...and some of the judges got a distinct "green pepper" where others did not. It's crazy.

SO...for me, this year I will adjust my beer to remove the cold steep coffee and use a "dry beaning" process instead. I will add the Kona coffee to the secondary as whole beans. This will eliminate one variable from last year and replace it with another. I will continue to use the "flameout" boil for Sumatra.

YMMV...but I felt it was worth sharing my experience.

Cheers!
~Adam

The one batch I have made was pretty much spot on....well, as close as most homebrew clones get, given all the variables not specifically covered in a recipe. I followed the original recipe to the letter. The chocolate was just Baker's Chocolate Squares, and the coffee was Papanicholas French Roast, I ground 2 oz. of beans to a coarse french press grind. My water was straight RO with 1 tablespoon of 5.2 buffer....which I would do again with a big stout like this, even though I've started doing mineral additions to my other beers since I made the Founders KBS.
 
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