Thermapen, Refractometer, or pH Meter?

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BreezyBrew

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I'm an all grain brewer, and am looking to purchase my next equipment. If you were going to buy one of these items, which would it be and why?
 
First would be thermapen. Lots of uses on brew day.

Second would be ph meter. With the caveat that it is easy
to make great beer without one.

I would not bother with a refractometer. I have one and don't use it anymore.
I just use a hydrometer. But I don't try to adjust my OG during brew day.
I take whatever I get and adjust the recipe as needed for the next time.
 
Thermapen first, but that's because I use it for cooking and pull it out of the kitchen on brew day. Refractometer next, I never use a hydrometer anymore. I never owned a ph meter for brewing. I had one for my salt water aquarium and it was unreliable.
 
Ditto on the thermometer as the first choice. Cheap ones are just not accurate enough for all grain. The thermapen is, but since it's a hand held it's a pain to use (literally depending on how hot what you are measuring is!) I went with this (the +- .2 C) and love it. I just leave the probe right in the mash tun, kettle, or whatever else I need to monitor. The unit velcro's nicely on the side of my brew bench where I can see it. It's great for heating infusion or sparge water.

http://vwrlabshop.com/vwr-waterproof-thermometers/p/0013422/

I'd go with the refractometer next. It's nice for taking gravity samples on the fly as you run off your mash. Just a few drops and you're good to go. The only down side is alcohol throws off the calibration so they're a pain to use post ferment. There's a calculation that gets them close but I just use my hydrometer for FG. The convenience during the mash more than makes up for the draw back in my opinion.

PH monitoring isn't necessary with proper attention to grain bill and water salts. You can actually calculate what it's going to be without monitoring (see "How to Brew", Palmer). You'll know if you were way off by poor efficiency, but it's really not hard to get it right the first time...
 
Meh, I'd go for the Refractometer first if it were me. A decent RT600 is like $25, reads in less than 6 seconds and is very accurate. A pH meter is too much of a pain in the rear for the use the typical brewer will get out of it (and you want a good meter if you're really concerned about pH, not a cheap one).
 
Thermapen for sure. The accuracy will help with getting your mash temps for exact and yeah it kicks ass for cooking too.
 
Ditto on the thermometer as the first choice. Cheap ones are just not accurate enough for all grain. The thermapen is, but since it's a hand held it's a pain to use (literally depending on how hot what you are measuring is!) I went with this (the +- .2 C) and love it. I just leave the probe right in the mash tun, kettle, or whatever else I need to monitor. The unit velcro's nicely on the side of my brew bench where I can see it. It's great for heating infusion or sparge water.

http://vwrlabshop.com/vwr-waterproof-thermometers/p/0013422/

I'd go with the refractometer next. It's nice for taking gravity samples on the fly as you run off your mash. Just a few drops and you're good to go. The only down side is alcohol throws off the calibration so they're a pain to use post ferment. There's a calculation that gets them close but I just use my hydrometer for FG. The convenience during the mash more than makes up for the draw back in my opinion.

PH monitoring isn't necessary with proper attention to grain bill and water salts. You can actually calculate what it's going to be without monitoring (see "How to Brew", Palmer). You'll know if you were way off by poor efficiency, but it's really not hard to get it right the first time...

I have the probe version of this thermo and love it...having the calibration sheet lets you know exactly where your temps sit. I use it to calibrate all my other thermometers.

I use a refractometer at least a half dozen times every brew day.
 
I'd definitely go with the Thermapen. I just got one for Christmas and can't wait to try it out. I have neither a refractometer nor pH meter and have no plans to acquire either one anytime soon. My hydrometer works just fine and I have found that my pH is rather stable no matter what style I brew, that is, if those cheapo test strips can be believed. Confidence in my mash temps, however, is of utmost importance to me. My FGs have been consistenly higher than expected, which has me seriously questioning the accuracy of my $20 digital thermometer at mash temps. Hoping my new Thermopen uncovers an issue I didn't know I had.
 
I think if you are interesting in getting a pH meter that you should just get some pH strips instead. Try them and see how important pH is to your process before purchasing one. I have worked with many pH meters and probes over the years. We now use the epoxy filled probes and toss them when the start acting up. You need buffers and to calibrate it before use. Calibration is no big deal but personally not something i want to do on a brew day. Probably because I do it at work. Those buffers though don't stay good for ever and neither do the probes. Even if you get one that you have to change out the reference solution (mo money mo money) it will need replaced over time. Proper storage helps but we have had one of those probes get used then stored, only to be pulled out for reuse and not work.

I'd get the thermapen. I'm saving for one myself.

I'm not sure how you get rid of your hydrometer completely as refractometers have issues when taking FG readings. The alcohol gives and unreliable reading once it's present (as far as i know, and i don't know it all). Feel free to correct me on that.
 
I'm not sure how you get rid of your hydrometer completely as refractometers have issues when taking FG readings. The alcohol gives and unreliable reading once it's present (as far as i know, and i don't know it all). Feel free to correct me on that.

True, but there are calculations you can do post fermentation that will adjust your number for the alcohol. They aren't dead on, but are close enough for most people not to really worry. I haven't used my hydrometer to take an FG in years.
 
True, but there are calculations you can do post fermentation that will adjust your number for the alcohol. They aren't dead on, but are close enough for most people not to really worry. I haven't used my hydrometer to take an FG in years.

Actually commenting on your signature. Good stuff!! Welcome to "Obama-nation"!!!
 
I'm not sure how you get rid of your hydrometer completely as refractometers have issues when taking FG readings. The alcohol gives and unreliable reading once it's present (as far as i know, and i don't know it all). Feel free to correct me on that.

This is absolutely true. There are compensation formulas you can use, but from what I understand, they are not perfect. Getting an accurate FG with a refractometer is not a straightforward task.

I use my hydrometer a grand total of two times for each brew: once for OG after the boil and once for FG prior to kegging. I personally have no use for a refractometer. But that's me, YMMV.
 
A good thermometer is a must. So Thermapen if that's the brand you want.

I'd go with a refractometer second. I use mine at least once every brew, and sometimes for checking FG. I have not found my Brewzor Phone App to be wrong when checking FG so far. But I admit it's almost as easy to check FG with a hydrometer too.

A pH meter is a nice bling item if you are to the point where you are messing with your water. They are usually accurate enough to double check your calculations. After a while I can see how one might be confident in their calculations to stop using it. It's really only handy if you are a true brewing geek and desire to know as much as you can about your brewing conditions. Save it for when you've determined you might have pH issues and have fermentation temps under control.
 
Ditto on the thermometer as the first choice. Cheap ones are just not accurate enough for all grain.

I disagree with this; I thermometer that is good to +/-2 degrees will make no better/worse beer than a thermometer accurate to +/-0.2 degrees. The issue is that even if you can measure to the 1/10 of a degree F, most homebrewing systems aren't designed to adjust temps with this sort of resolution. I would be surprised if you could tell the difference between a mash that was kept at 150F +/- 2 degrees and one that was kept at 150 +/-0.2 degrees.

That being said, a thermapen is a well made device and can deliver stable temp readings in 2-3 seconds...that is why it is preferred by homebrewers. If I had money to burn I'd probably go with this purchase first, then refractometer, then pH meter.
 
I have not found my Brewzor Phone App to be wrong when checking FG so far. But I admit it's almost as easy to check FG with a hydrometer too.

From the few times I actually took a reading with both, I didn't find it really was off much at all, less than a point usually. Now, that might be a bigger swing with a higher alcohol beer, but, again, was never off by enough to ever worry about.

That being said, a thermapen is a well made device and can deliver stable temp readings in 2-3 seconds...that is why it is preferred by homebrewers.

The speed is part of the charm. I don't even have mine set for tenth of a degree increments. I flipped the DIP switch inside to just make it read to the nearest degree.

I also used the thing to check my Thanksgiving turkey and the roast I made for Christmas. So many uses!!!
 
From the few times I actually took a reading with both, I didn't find it really was off much at all, less than a point usually. Now, that might be a bigger swing with a higher alcohol beer, but, again, was never off by enough to ever worry about.

That may well be the case. I haven't used it for measuring a really big beer. I think a brew day is in order!!

What do I really want, Barleywine, RIS, or...???
 
Personally I would get the refractometer. I never have to wait for samples to cool to make sure my pre-boil gravity is correct. Plus it only takes a few drops. I have not regreted buying mine. Makes checking progress in fermentation a snap too. Don't have to waste a bunch of beer to check.
I would replace the thermapen with a good partial immersion lab thermometer They are between cheap and absolutely accurate. I just leave mine in my mash.
I wouldn't worry too much about the pH meter until later. If a person was just getting into all grain then I would be more concerned about temperatures and extractions. For a majority my your recipes I don't need to worry about pH.

So really you can pick up a decend refractometer and a lab thermometer for teh same cost of a thermapen.
 
I ferment in buckets and to check a gravity reading I pull off the airlock, insert a straw through the hole and remove enough beer to check with the refractometer. If you feel the need to check a sample 3 days in a row before bottling, repeat the process. It saves me having to pull the lid off the bucket to get a sample.
 
I ferment in buckets and to check a gravity reading I pull off the airlock, insert a straw through the hole and remove enough beer to check with the refractometer. If you feel the need to check a sample 3 days in a row before bottling, repeat the process. It saves me having to pull the lid off the bucket to get a sample.

Holy CARP!!! You are a genius. My little plastic pipette stopped working, hole in the bulb, and I was sanitizing a spoon and popping the bucket lid to take samples. I didn't really want to go to the trouble of sanitizing my baster and sucking out a massive draw of the beer. I don't know why something like this didn't occur to me before?!!?
 
Personally I would get the refractometer. I never have to wait for samples to cool to make sure my pre-boil gravity is correct. Plus it only takes a few drops. I have not regreted buying mine. Makes checking progress in fermentation a snap too. Don't have to waste a bunch of beer to check.
I would replace the thermapen with a good partial immersion lab thermometer They are between cheap and absolutely accurate. I just leave mine in my mash.
I wouldn't worry too much about the pH meter until later. If a person was just getting into all grain then I would be more concerned about temperatures and extractions. For a majority my your recipes I don't need to worry about pH.

So really you can pick up a decend refractometer and a lab thermometer for teh same cost of a thermapen.

I find that the need to check pre-boil gravity is really only acute when you're getting dialed in on your process. I rarely even bother to check my pre-boil gravity any more, since I don't change my equipment or procedures between batches--if I do an iodine conversion test and the wort is converted, I know pretty well what my efficiency is going to be and I don't really need to confirm it over an over again every batch. I just make sure I get my pre-boil quantity right and then check the gravity before I transfer to the fermenter. I'm rarely more than three or four gravity points off from my target. Of course, when you do non-standard brews--really big, no-sparge batches, or partigyles, stuff like that--it makes sense to check your pre-boil gravity to make sure you're not way off from what you expected. But if your efficiency is varying widely between batches there's some variable you haven't locked down yet...
 
Do you cook meat? If yes, Thermapen. Seriously. Perfectly cooked meat, every time.
 
I'm an all grain brewer, and am looking to purchase my next equipment. If you were going to buy one of these items, which would it be and why?

I use a CDN digital thermometer and it has served me well for the past year and a half. I've periodically checked the calibration on it and it's still fine. Personally, I think a Thermapen is a nice luxury but it's not critical. This would be my third choice.

Refractometers (especially the temp-correcting models) are good for quickly measuring SG pre-boil. You don't have to cool down a cup of wort to get a reading. Very nice, but a hydrometer can give you the same measurement - it just takes a while to get the larger volume of liquid down to testing temps. This would be my second choice.

A quality temp-correcting pH meter that shows pH to a hundredths (x.xx) is the most useful out of the three, in my opinion, if your brewing water is pretty bad and requires some significant chemical modifications (like mine). Don't bother with any pH meter that only goes out to the tenths - it won't be accurate enough. I bought the "HM Digital HMDPH200 Waterproof PH And Amp Temperature Meter" for about $75 and it has served me well so far. You'll also need some storage solution and some 4.0 calibration solution.
 
The labs i have worked in never report to the hundredth as it's mostly not needed and to the tenth will do you just fine. Even if your water is completely jacked up. I haven't paid much attention to the pH of my mash. Mostly because my beers does just fine with out adding that to the process.

If your water is jacked your are probably better of making a dilute mineral water. It's rather easy with perrier and ro water to get moderately hard levels with a pH ranging from 7.7-8.0. Thats what i use at work for a certain task.

I'm not saying it's not important, just saying it may not be as important to the OP as he originally thought.

Dollar for dollar a good temp probe would still be my choice.
 
The labs i have worked in never report to the hundredth as it's mostly not needed and to the tenth will do you just fine. Even if your water is completely jacked up. I haven't paid much attention to the pH of my mash. Mostly because my beers does just fine with out adding that to the process.

If your water is jacked your are probably better of making a dilute mineral water. It's rather easy with perrier and ro water to get moderately hard levels with a pH ranging from 7.7-8.0. Thats what i use at work for a certain task.

I'm not saying it's not important, just saying it may not be as important to the OP as he originally thought.

Dollar for dollar a good temp probe would still be my choice.

Meters that only go to the tenth are usually accurate plus or minus .3 at best, so if it's reading at 5.3 your wort could be anywhere from 5.0 to 5.6. That's not an acceptable error range for brewing purposes.
 
I disagree with this; I thermometer that is good to +/-2 degrees will make no better/worse beer than a thermometer accurate to +/-0.2 degrees. The issue is that even if you can measure to the 1/10 of a degree F, most homebrewing systems aren't designed to adjust temps with this sort of resolution. I would be surprised if you could tell the difference between a mash that was kept at 150F +/- 2 degrees and one that was kept at 150 +/-0.2 degrees.

That being said, a thermapen is a well made device and can deliver stable temp readings in 2-3 seconds...that is why it is preferred by homebrewers. If I had money to burn I'd probably go with this purchase first, then refractometer, then pH meter.

I agree that +/- 2 degrees would be adequate. The trouble I had was in reality they (simple glass type) were more like +/- 5, maybe more. The ice water or boiling calibration is useless too because I read their readings and inaccuracy is not linear. In other words they might be even farther off at mash temperatures. I tried a cheap digital one from Target and it was even worse. With all the variables involved in mashing and the importance of temperature in so many phases of brewing I needed to feel confident I was reading the actual temperature. I did not go with thermapen as I think they are pricey and not as easy to use as a probe and wire type like the one I got from VWR (link posted above). If you are confident in what you use, great. If you are having issues, temperature inaccuracy could be the culprit...
 
I'm a huge fan of the Thermapen, and also a refractometer. You can get by with a less pricey option, but IMO the uses of the thing are so great that you will have wondered ow you lived without the Thermapen once you own it.

Also, if you like measure your mash efficiency and adjust prior to boil, a refractometer is very nice to have around, and very much worth the price. Just be sure to get one that compensates for temperature so that you can take readings on the fly.

My choice would be to get the refractometer first, if you already have a decent thermometer, and then the Thermapen. Reverse the order if you don't have a good thermometer already.
 
#1 cause of beer not doing what you want, bad thermometer. People are mashing at 200F then can't find out what's making them not make beer. The other stuff is cool, but not needed. Thermapen
 
#1 cause of beer not doing what you want, bad thermometer. People are mashing at 200F then can't find out what's making them not make beer. The other stuff is cool, but not needed. Thermapen

A thermapen is going to do no better or worse than a $12 digital (properly calibrated) in this situation.
 
The main reason I mention Thermapen is for the fact that I have had 3 different thermometers 15-30 dollar range, and either they weren't accurate or they were cheaply made and broke. The cost seems worth it, and by now I should have just bought one or something comparable in the first place.

Everyone pretty much agrees that temperature is the most important measurement to get correct while brewing. Refractometer seems to be more preference and how much you care about nailing your numbers exactly. PH seems to be most important if you are making changes to your water source and mineral amounts. It's probably only helpful the first few times when brewing a new style. Owners seem to use it less the more they brew. I appreciate everyone's thoughts.
 
A thermapen is going to do no better or worse than a $12 digital (properly calibrated) in this situation.

And what is "properly calibrated"? I tried with my "Walmart special" with both the ice bath and boiling water methods and it seemed fine. Yet I still had issues until I got my VWR, which is lab calibrated. As I read up on the issue I learned cheap thermometers' accuracy isn't linear; in other words the accuracy at freezing or boiling isn't necessarily the same at an intermediate temperature like 152. You may have gotten lucky with your $12 special, mine was horrible!
 
I have a couple thermometers on my HLT and BK, and they are both properly calibrated. I installed them on the kettles that fit the range at which they were most accurate. These are identical thermometers but one was more accurate at boil temp and one was more accurate at mash/sparge temp.
 
Ditto on the thermometer as the first choice. Cheap ones are just not accurate enough for all grain. The thermapen is, but since it's a hand held it's a pain to use (literally depending on how hot what you are measuring is!) I went with this (the +- .2 C) and love it. I just leave the probe right in the mash tun, kettle, or whatever else I need to monitor. The unit velcro's nicely on the side of my brew bench where I can see it. It's great for heating infusion or sparge water.

http://vwrlabshop.com/vwr-waterproof-thermometers/p/0013422/

I'd go with the refractometer next. It's nice for taking gravity samples on the fly as you run off your mash. Just a few drops and you're good to go. The only down side is alcohol throws off the calibration so they're a pain to use post ferment. There's a calculation that gets them close but I just use my hydrometer for FG. The convenience during the mash more than makes up for the draw back in my opinion.

PH monitoring isn't necessary with proper attention to grain bill and water salts. You can actually calculate what it's going to be without monitoring (see "How to Brew", Palmer). You'll know if you were way off by poor efficiency, but it's really not hard to get it right the first time...

That thermometer looks so nice I just might go ahead and buy it! I like that it's all water proof and the probe is submersible. Just shove it in the mash, put the lid on the tun, and keep an eye on it... nice!

:mug:
 
I have a couple thermometers on my HLT and BK, and they are both properly calibrated. I installed them on the kettles that fit the range at which they were most accurate. These are identical thermometers but one was more accurate at boil temp and one was more accurate at mash/sparge temp.

How do you know the one is more accurate at mash/sparge temp? I couldn't figure out to calibrate mine at anything other than boiling or freezing...
 
I'd go thermometer too. I use my refractometer but I have to admit that it doesn't change what i do. Just lets me "peek" a little more frequently early in the process. I love that VWR thermometer. I actually just ordered one!
 
How do you know the one is more accurate at mash/sparge temp? I couldn't figure out to calibrate mine at anything other than boiling or freezing...

I use a NIST certified thermometer and a hot plate. Do a two point calibration with your cold and hot. Then check in between at your mash temp. I like 150, so i boil on one hot plate then move to the other in the ball part of 150. then slowly bump it up until the NIST reads 150. If I have trouble calibrating it, i will just write down the difference and then i know if i want 150 i have to have it read 154 for example. You don't need a NIST but it's sure nice to have one available.

Similar to the pH meter I would only get one that will allow you to use a two point calibration. If you are going to use it for your mash and to check your source water, I would recommend calibrating with 4 and 10 buffer then checking against your 7 buffer.
 
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