07.07.07 Hops Poll #2 - Which Varieties?

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Which hops should we use in 07.07.07

  • Amarillo

  • Cascade

  • Centennial

  • Chinook

  • Columbus

  • Crystal

  • Simcoe

  • Sorachi

  • Willamette

  • OTHER - please specify

Results are only viewable after voting.
Torchiest

Torchiest

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Okay, we're getting there, folks! Now we have to decide WHICH hops to use in the beer. I've allowed for multiple voting, and I figure the top three will be the winners. If anyone has suggestions that aren't listed, throw them in there, but the ones I listed seem to be the most likely due to previous consideration.
 
My understanding was that this was more of an APA at this point. Maybe I'm misunderstanding? Plus, ten is most choices you can have. :( Sorry Orfy.
 
I voted for Amarillo, Columbus and Simcoe only because all of my APAs usually have some type of Chinook, Centennial and Cascade variety.

I would vote for NO Cascade in this beer since it seems like every common APA uses it and we should go off the beaten path. Just my two cents.
 
Agreed jeffg, Cascade is the run of the mill stuff. I love it, but we need change. I voted Columbus , Simcoe, Amarillo in that addition order. Gooood hops.
 
My two cents:

Northern Brewers are a good neutral hop. If we're really looking for the malt flavor to come thru, we should look at hops that don't add much residual flavor, like Northern Brewer, EK Goldings, Fuggles, Willamette, Cluster... those types IMO.

Saaz would be a cool finishing hop in this I think (though definitely not an APA hop... and not neutral).
 
I voted Columbus, Simcoe and Amarillo as well. But I would like to try those Sorachi's. I've never used them and my LHBS has never heard of them.
 
Wanted to bump this to get a **** recipe finalized. :D

The vote (poll) seems to be for Columbus, Amarillo, and Centennial, with Simcoe and Willamette close behind. There has also been a fair amount of discussion/lobbying for the Simcoe/Amarillo pairing.

I think we should come up with a hop schedule with seven additions that uses Columbus, Simcoe, and Amarillo, based on voting, discussion, and standard usage. All of these are higher-alpha varieties (10%+), and I think for the malt profile we need to keep the IBU's in the 40-50 range.

Any objections?

If not, I'll get cracking on a suitable schedule after work (5-6 hrs from now) for your review. Feel free to do the same.
 
So far...it looks like Amarillo, Cascade and Columbus are the top 3, with Simcoe and Williamette rounding out the top 5. Centennial is a close 6th, and basically is a super-Cascade.

How many are we going to use? Which ones for Bittering/Flavor/Aroma/Dry hop?

So far we have:

Amarillo: Aroma-Bittering-Dry Hop / 8-11 Alpha / Citrus-Floral
Cascade: Aroma-Bittering/ 4-7 Alpha / Grapefruit-Citrus
Columbus: Aroma-Bittering-Dry Hop / 12-16 Alpha / Clean / Low Co-Humulone=Clean bittering.
Simcoe: Aroma-Bittering / 12-14 Alpha / Piney / Low Co-Humulone=Clean Bittering
Williamette: Aroma / 4-6 Alpha / Spicy
 
Since no one else has really been participating in this in the last couple days, I think we should go with Amarillo, Simcoe, and Columbus. I'm pretty sure that will be a good mix of hops that allows the malts to take center stage.
 
Not complaining here...just wanting to know why you are counting Cascade out, as its been voted 2nd choice so far right behind Amarillo?
 
Torchiest said:
Since no one else has really been participating in this in the last couple days, I think we should go with Amarillo, Simcoe, and Columbus. I'm pretty sure that will be a good mix of hops that allows the malts to take center stage.
Click to expand...

Aight, let's do it.

FWH 0.50 oz Simcoe (add to 30m addition if you aren't doing AG)
60 0.50 oz Columbus
30 0.50 oz Simcoe
15 0.50 oz Amarillo
05 0.50 oz Amarillo
00 0.50 oz Amarillo, 0.50 oz Simcoe
Dry 0.50 oz of each

Total: 1 oz Columbus, 2 oz Simcoe, 2 oz Amarillo.

I don't have brew software at work, so I don't know what the IBU's come to on this, but if it can stay 50 or less, IMO I think we have a winner.
 
texasgeorge said:
...I don't have brew software at work, so I don't know what the IBU's come to on this, but if it can stay 50 or less, IMO I think we have a winner.
Click to expand...

The hops schedule you listed comes out around 93 IBU's. Normal APA's are between 30 and 45 IBU's.
 
I think we should shoot for a target IBU, especially because the higher AA% in Columbus can put the bitterness all over the map due to variations. I'm just throwing out ideas here, but say we shoot for 25 or so out of the 60 min addition and maybe another 10 out of the 30 min, plus all the other additions. The last 15 min won't contribute as much bitterness, so the AA% isn't as critical.
 
Tony said:
Not complaining here...just wanting to know why you are counting Cascade out, as its been voted 2nd choice so far right behind Amarillo?
Click to expand...

Update: Cascade is now tied for 1st.
 
I so don't want to come across as a trying to take over this process, or even like I can guess what people are thinking, but I'm guessing a lot of people are voting for Cascade because it's a well known hop, rather than because of any major desire.

I also think there could be a lot of people who voted for other hops that also voted for Cascade. It may have been better to not make this a multi-choice vote after all.

Another thing to consider is that there might be a lot of people just breezing through and voting who have no intention of brewing this beer. I put more weight on the opinions of people who not only voted, but also are actively participating and getting into the discussion.

I think another major problem that we still have is a bit of schitzophrenia over just what kind of beer this is going to be. I think there are simultaneously people working towards a hoppy, IPA-style beer, while others are shooting for a lighter, mild/malty pale ale.

That being said, I'm concerned now about moving too quickly without real input from some of the other members of this community. As it stands, I'm afraid that we, myself in particular, might be hijacking the whole decision-making process. I don't want anyone to resent me, so I'm going to ease off a bit and see if anyone else has ideas.

Of course, I could be completely wrong about everything I just said, and you can dismiss it all! :D
 
I hear what you are saying, and was only trying to see your reasoning behind the ones you picked. And being a group thing, I just wanted a discussion on the ones that were more prominent in the poll. Polls can indeed be non-scientific, and like you said, for the mere passer-byer, a means to just vote for a favorite and move on.

I was under the assumption that we were building a normal American Pale Ale. Normal APA's are well hopped/low malt beers. It seems we were wanting a good balance of malt/hops/yeast to make a simple, yet still malty tasting Pale. So were are creating something a little different than the norm.

I think we defininately need to be a little conservative on the bittering hops amounts, even if we are doing 7 additions, we can add them without wild abandon and not create an IPA. Each of the top 5 are decent hops, and if done right, can add alot to this beer.
 
Cascade is #2 because everybody uses them and even though they are a great hop, we are going off roading here at HomeBrewTalk and beating a different path . So Cascade propbably shouldn't have been in there, but what can ya do you know.
 
I didn't vote, because I don't really have an answer. I think American hops would work best (sorry Orfy!) but it doesn't matter to me which ones we pick. I LOVE cascade- but I use it often and in my IPA. I would like to have no more than 45-50 IBUs, since it's going to be a malty (but summer) beer. I'd like to have a citrus-y finish, but don't require cascade or any grapefruit-y notes. Otherwise, I'm game for anything! Just let me know what we decide!
 
Just to inject my opinion/thoughts... It is a common acceptance that Simcoe and Amarillo pair well together. At the time of my previous post, Simcoe was not in the top 3. As of right now (11:16pm Central, 02/11/07) it is Cascade, Simcoe, and Amarillo.

Tony said:
Each of the top 5 are decent hops, and if done right, can add alot to this beer.
Click to expand...

I'm interested to hear your suggestion. I was one of the advocates for the 7-variety brew. As it is, I will be brewing the 7.7.7 grain bill with a 7-hop blend that I came up with in the first 7.7.7 thread in addition to whatever the consensus is for the actual 7.7.7 brew. Here is my hop schedule for reference (~45 IBU IIRC):

0.50 oz Centennial 10.50% (whole), FWH
0.50 oz Willamette 5.00% (pellet), 60 min
0.25 oz Amarillo 10.00% (pellet), 30 min
0.25 oz Simcoe 12.00% (pellet), 30 min
0.25 oz Cascade 6.00% (pellet), 10 min
0.25 oz Northern Brewer 9.00% (pellet), 10 min
0.25 oz Crystal 4.00% (pellet), 10 min
0.25 oz Cascade, N Brewer, Crystal at flameout
0.50 oz each variety for dryhops in secondary; This is 1.00 oz total for all hop varieties... easy to buy!

So let's get this thing nailed down!
 
I agree with the point about the poll, so far there have been 40 votes whereas the # of people actively posting has been around a dozen. I also feel that the simcoe/amarillo combination would be good choice. Sorachi's have been mentioned also, and that sounds like a good idea since we are trying to do something different. does anyone have some info on sorachi's they could post?
 
Hercules Rockefeller said:
.... does anyone have some info on sorachi's they could post?
Click to expand...

Look here. I like the idea of using Sorachis, but they might be difficult for some people to find. I like the Amarillo/Somcoe combo. Cascade might work with that, if not too aggresively added.

Personally, I'd vote for Willamette over Cascade. They'd be a nice aroma addition that keeps it an APA, but with a Fuggle-like characteristic.
 
Wow, this is really coming along well guys! Being pretty new at recipe formulation, I'm not too much help with all this, but I'm looking forward to the finalized recipe... Anyway, keep it going!
 
texasgeorge said:
Here is my hop schedule for reference (~45 IBU IIRC):

0.50 oz Centennial 10.50% (whole), FWH
0.50 oz Willamette 5.00% (pellet), 60 min
0.25 oz Amarillo 10.00% (pellet), 30 min
0.25 oz Simcoe 12.00% (pellet), 30 min
0.25 oz Cascade 6.00% (pellet), 10 min
0.25 oz Northern Brewer 9.00% (pellet), 10 min
0.25 oz Crystal 4.00% (pellet), 10 min
0.25 oz Cascade, N Brewer, Crystal at flameout
0.50 oz each variety for dryhops in secondary; This is 1.00 oz total for all hop varieties... easy to buy!

So let's get this thing nailed down!
Click to expand...

And since most LHBS sell 2oz units, and doing it twice won't hurt, it is perfect!

Oh wait, you missed simcoe and amarillo somewhere, so it ends up being .75 oz of those.
 
Rhoobarb said:
Look here. I like the idea of using Sorachis, but they might be difficult for some people to find. I like the Amarillo/Somcoe combo. Cascade might work with that, if not too aggresively added.

Personally, I'd vote for Willamette over Cascade. They'd be a nice aroma addition that keeps it an APA, but with a Fuggle-like characteristic.
Click to expand...

Yeah, since no one is really pitching hard for Cascade, other than voting for it, I think we can dismiss it as a choice.

I think Amarillo/Simcoe is good, and then we can just decide on one more hop. I like the idea of Willamette as well, but I'm open to other suggestions.
 
Torchiest said:
Yeah, since no one is really pitching hard for Cascade, other than voting for it, I think we can dismiss it as a choice.

I voted for Cascade as it is one of my fav's but I now I am thinking that it's not different enough for a special brew like this. I'd propose a Sorachi - Simcoe - Amarillo combinations.
Click to expand...
 
Hercules Rockefeller said:
Torchiest said:
Yeah, since no one is really pitching hard for Cascade, other than voting for it, I think we can dismiss it as a choice.

I voted for Cascade as it is one of my fav's but I now I am thinking that it's not different enough for a special brew like this. I'd propose a Sorachi - Simcoe - Amarillo combinations.
Click to expand...
If Sorachi is good for everybody else, I'm okay with it. I don't think I'd use it for aroma. Better for bittering/flavor, IMO.
Click to expand...
 
texasgeorge said:
...I'm interested to hear your suggestion...
Click to expand...

First just to be clear, I did not vote for Cascade, and was just trying to see why it was being overlooked. Just a observation and question, no stock in wanting it as a choice. Personally, its not my choice at all for this recipe, and can definately sleep tonight (or any night) if its not used. LOL I was just trying to see if the people voting for it were going to say anything. Seems as though only one person has. So, with that said....

I voted for Amarillo, Simcoe, and Columbus as my choices. I hesitated on Williamette, but definately would use it with the above three hops. Also, I havent used Sorachi Ace, but after some good research and reading today on the hop, I am all for it. (I have to get some of these for other recipes as well) The clean lemony aroma will fit right in.

Im not going to post a schedule as we could go many ways on this, and i want to see how everyone wants to set it up. But for their uses, bittering, we have three great choice, Amarillo, Columbus and Simcoe. And for aroma, Williamette and Sorachi. And if we dry hop, obviously Amarillo, or a blend of Amarillo, Sorachi and Williamette for a spicy citrus/tangerine/lemon aroma and flavor. Thats my ideas anyway.
 
I'll defer to others on this board - it seems like those that are most opinionated like the Simcoe Amaillo combo, and why not throw in sorachi - I have been quiet becuase those are three hops I have never used...fine by me, I'll just have to order some in as I don't think my LHBS carries them (all of them anyway) I'd have to check.
 

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