Cream Ale Cream of Three Crops (Cream Ale)

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Has anyone tried making with beer with White labs cream ale yeast? I have been thinking of trying this with BIAB on a my stove top for a 2.5 gallon recipe.

I have made this recipe with both Safeale-05 and WhiteLabs cream ale yeast. The grain bill/recipe was exactly the same, save for the yeast. The WhiteLabs one has a noticeable cleaner taste, even during the fermentation process. However, it does take longer than the 05 dry yeast, so plan accordingly. Also, so far...appears to leave the beer a bit cloudier. I'm hoping this can be cleared up in a secondary with gelatin. Either way, this is such a good, clean, easy drinking beer, it won't really last long enough to make too much of a difference.

I'm probably going to let this run a 3-week primary instead of the 2 week, because it is taking longer. Then cold crash in a 2ndary w/ gelatin for 48 hours before kegging. Making this for a party, and will have to transport the keg, so I want it as clear as possible before transporting and shaking it all up.
 
I surfed through some of the pages, because I thought for sure someone had posted about what a decent trade off was for the flaked corn...I didn't come across it though. SO with that said, what's an alternative for flaked corn? Please and thanks guys.
 
pkincaid said:
I surfed through some of the pages, because I thought for sure someone had posted about what a decent trade off was for the flaked corn...I didn't come across it though. SO with that said, what's an alternative for flaked corn? Please and thanks guys.

Some people have used corn starch and others have used corn meal which would need to be cooked. I think on page 71 you will find some info.
 
Currently boiling away. Slight adjustments for what I have available here. Used cracked corn and rice prepared in a rice cooker and mashed together with Chinese malted Australian grown pilsner malt instead of 2-row. Adjusted for a 90 minute boil due to the pils. Hopping with Hallertau. Still hit my numbers perfect so far. Brewing it up specifically to have a keg on hand for my boss' under developed tastes.
 
Currently boiling away. Slight adjustments for what I have available here. Used cracked corn and rice prepared in a rice cooker and mashed together with Chinese malted Australian grown pilsner malt instead of 2-row. Adjusted for a 90 minute boil due to the pils. Hopping with Hallertau. Still hit my numbers perfect so far. Brewing it up specifically to have a keg on hand for my boss' under developed tastes.

nice! I never understood why people fear pilsner malt so much from DMS. As long as you boil vigorously w/o the lid you don't need to boil for 90 mins. I use pilsner malt as my base malt of choice for all of my beers. I love it when my brew sessions go according to plan! =D :mug:
 
OK, I jinxed myself. With 25 minutes remaining, I took a volume and gravity reading. Clearly ignoring what I know and neglecting to account for temp accurately. I thought I was coming in high, so I added water to correct my gravity. Surprise, surprise that once chilled my OG is low. I'm off by exactly the amount of water I added. Never dilute while boiling. That's easily done later if needed. Second time I've done so. I need to trust my formulations which are proving themselves correct. Oh well. It'll keep my boss from getting drunk as quickly.
 
Currently boiling away. Slight adjustments for what I have available here. Used cracked corn and rice prepared in a rice cooker and mashed together with Chinese malted Australian grown pilsner malt instead of 2-row. Adjusted for a 90 minute boil due to the pils. Hopping with Hallertau. Still hit my numbers perfect so far. Brewing it up specifically to have a keg on hand for my boss' under developed tastes.

Can you provide any more detail on how you used the cracked corn and rice in your rice cooker to make a cereal mash?
 
I had scaled the recipe up, consistent with the volumes used by CYBI or Brewing Classic Styles. So I had 2.33 pounds cracked corn and 0.56 pounds plain white rice. I put them together in our rice cooker with about 1.5-2 L of water leaving about 1.5" of space in it. I was afraid it would swell too much and create a mess, but it didn't. It cooked on the normal setting for rice. Once cooked, I mixed it in with 6.7 lbs of pilsner and broke up the balls as much as possible. It stabilized at 122 deg F. I used Beer Alchemy to calculate my strike water temp considering a 122 F grist at roughly 12 pounds when the water was factored in. That actually enabled me to hit my mash temp on the nose. I had forgot to turn the burner on to heat the strike water until the cereal was almost done. So the rice, corn, and pilsner mixture rested in a fairly dry state at 122 for almost 30 minutes. Since it was relatively dry, I doubt it acted as a protein rest, activating the enzymes. But I really don't know for sure. I mashed for 90 minutes to give plenty of time for full conversion.
 
I had scaled the recipe up, consistent with the volumes used by CYBI or Brewing Classic Styles. So I had 2.33 pounds cracked corn and 0.56 pounds plain white rice. I put them together in our rice cooker with about 1.5-2 L of water leaving about 1.5" of space in it. I was afraid it would swell too much and create a mess, but it didn't. It cooked on the normal setting for rice. Once cooked, I mixed it in with 6.7 lbs of pilsner and broke up the balls as much as possible. It stabilized at 122 deg F. I used Beer Alchemy to calculate my strike water temp considering a 122 F grist at roughly 12 pounds when the water was factored in. That actually enabled me to hit my mash temp on the nose. I had forgot to turn the burner on to heat the strike water until the cereal was almost done. So the rice, corn, and pilsner mixture rested in a fairly dry state at 122 for almost 30 minutes. Since it was relatively dry, I doubt it acted as a protein rest, activating the enzymes. But I really don't know for sure. I mashed for 90 minutes to give plenty of time for full conversion.



Thanks for sharing this. I plan to try it on my next brew of this recipe.
 
Did using pilsen have similar/comparable results to using the pale ale malt? (ie, was there a noticable difference?)

i'll let you know - brewing an imperial version of this using 8 lb. german pilsen (1.7), 2 lb corn, 2 lb rice and 1 lb. of sugar added at the end of a boil... (5 gal) - should be uber light w a kick. mashing it low and long to keep it dry.

not for me but i'm brewing it for my business partner - he's a big BMC guy but likes higher alcohol beers so he's hard to please... using tettnang to bitter and a hop burst of saaz at the end - no dry hopping. i'll ferment with us5 to make it clean... i'll also ferment it lower than my normal beers and for longer but i'm pretty sure this beer could go from brew to glass in 3 weeks. we'll see..
 
Another thing I have been wondering about this recipe is has anyone tried a blend of 2-row and 6-row instead of straight 2 row/pale malt? Would replacing a few pounds of 2 row with 6 row help in the conversion of the corn and rice in the mash?
 
msa8967 said:
Another thing I have been wondering about this recipe is has anyone tried a blend of 2-row and 6-row instead of straight 2 row/pale malt? Would replacing a few pounds of 2 row with 6 row help in the conversion of the corn and rice in the mash?

It would, although all you need is enough enzymes to do the conversion so, in this case there is no need. There is an infinitesimal cost savings adding 6 row and a slightly higher protein amount in comparison to 2 row. If you want to do it I'd say knock yourself out. The most you'll see in a difference is maybe a little better foam stability; .... maybe.
 
Well I don't know how I managed this seeing as I've brewed 11 gallon batches of this like 5 times but I forgot the rice. Went into the fermentor 2 days ago. Thoughts? Lol
 
Well I don't know how I managed this seeing as I've brewed 11 gallon batches of this like 5 times but I forgot the rice. Went into the fermentor 2 days ago. Thoughts? Lol

Perhaps a little lighter ABV, but should be just fine. If I am without the rice, I will sub in about 3/4 pound of cane (table) sugar for every pound of rice I would have used.
 
biggc1 said:
Well I don't know how I managed this seeing as I've brewed 11 gallon batches of this like 5 times but I forgot the rice. Went into the fermentor 2 days ago. Thoughts? Lol
Edit: ^^ Dammit! BM beat me :mug: ^^
You can add sum table sugar to make up for the rice!! it doesn't add anything but empty fermentables..
 
biggc1 said:
Lol thanks guys!!!! Should i dissolve it in hot water and add it now?

If you've got a strong fermentation right now, I would wait a couple (2) days then add the dissolved sugar.. It will start to ferment harder so you want to let the first part subside a little before dumping in simple sugar.. kinda like a triple with candi sugar even though it's not alot it might be better for the batch and even clear faster :mug:
 
I have my third batch of this in the fermenter right now, and just finished off batch #2. Great recipe!
 
After 11 days in primary, the yeast finally dropped out and it cleared up. However, day after day it's had a very strong yeast aroma. I decided to rack to secondary, which I normally forego. I sampled a glass, and yeast is the wrong label. The taste is all corn. Had a very healthy fermentation. I doubt it's DMS. I think it's obviously from the cracked corn. We'll see what a few weeks more will do for it.
 
Mine was the same thing, too much corn taste, if I were to do it again I would drop the corn way down. I let it sit for a few month and it didnt change, so I dumped it. With the long mash and long boil this one takes a long time to brew, I wont be doing it again for a while.
 
Mine was the same thing, too much corn taste, if I were to do it again I would drop the corn way down. I let it sit for a few month and it didnt change, so I dumped it. With the long mash and long boil this one takes a long time to brew, I wont be doing it again for a while.

mlyday - Properly brewed, a slight residual, yet crisp sweetness is all you should detect from using pre-gelatinized flaked corn as an adjunct.

V V V V
Well I think ive created a dumper. This turned out really bad. Im sure with all the good reviews this gets, it was something I did wrong. I carbed this up this week and took a test yesterday. It was really really light, moreso than alot of the pictures Ive seen here…



After 11 days in primary, the yeast finally dropped out and it cleared up. However, day after day it's had a very strong yeast aroma. I decided to rack to secondary, which I normally forego. I sampled a glass, and yeast is the wrong label. The taste is all corn. Had a very healthy fermentation. I doubt it's DMS. I think it's obviously from the cracked corn. We'll see what a few weeks more will do for it.


Quaker - Sounds like you ended up adding cooked corn to your mash. Next time use brewers pre-gelatinized flaked corn…

V V V V
I had scaled the recipe up, consistent with the volumes used by CYBI or Brewing Classic Styles. So I had 2.33 pounds cracked corn and 0.56 pounds plain white rice. I put them together in our rice cooker with about 1.5-2 L of water leaving about 1.5" of space in it. I was afraid it would swell too much and create a mess, but it didn't. It cooked on the normal setting for rice. Once cooked, I mixed it in with 6.7 lbs of pilsner and broke up the balls as much as possible. It stabilized at 122 deg F. I used Beer Alchemy to calculate my strike water temp considering a 122 F grist at roughly 12 pounds when the water was factored in. That actually enabled me to hit my mash temp on the nose. I had forgot to turn the burner on to heat the strike water until the cereal was almost done. So the rice, corn, and pilsner mixture rested in a fairly dry state at 122 for almost 30 minutes. Since it was relatively dry, I doubt it acted as a protein rest, activating the enzymes. But I really don't know for sure. I mashed for 90 minutes to give plenty of time for full conversion.
 
mlyday - Properly brewed, a slight residual, yet crisp sweetness is all you should detect from using pre-gelatinized flaked corn as an adjunct.

V V V V

I used flaked corn on mine.

Im sure it was something I did wrong. It was freezing out the day I brewed, so although I got a biol going, it wasnt as vigorous as I would have liked. It ended up really light, and really crisp, just too much corn taste for my liking. Im sure Ill brew it again, all these people cant be wrong.
 
Follow the recipe then start experimenting. I laugh when my friends cook and says it turned out awful. Did you follow the recipe? Well no because I like this and didn't have that. Blah blah blah.
 
Went back and watched the BBVideo on using corn in a pilsener. I flipped things a bit. I should have done a protein rest with the corn and some base malt first, then sacc. rest, then cook it.

Funny thing is, I expect my Chinese colleagues will love it. A common drink is basically a slightly diluted creamed corn.
 
Made this today and had a first. I am usually fighting effeciency on the downside. I batch sparge and usually am in the 65-68% efficiency range. I calculated this at 65% efficiency and adjusted the base malt accordingly. For 5.25 gallons I went with

6.5# 2 row
1# Flaked Rice
2# Flaked Corn
1# Rice Hulls (I figured, what the heck, I had room in the mash tun for them and it's cheap lauter/sparge insurance)

I like a little late hop aroma, even on something this light, so I went with
.5 ounce Hallertauer (4.3%)- 45 min
. 5 ounce Tettnang - (3.7%) - 45 min
.5 ounce Hallertauer - (4.3%) - 7 min
. 5 ounce Tettnang - (3.7%) - 7 min

Mashed at 152 on the nose for 90 min. I think I accidentally got some grain in my dish when I did an iodine test and got a bad reading off the top of the mash. So I mashed another 10 min (not sure if this accounts for the efficiency bump).

But I collected about 6.75-6.8-ish gallons. I pulled a sample from the pre-boil wort, cooled to 75F and checked with a refractometer and got 10.8 (which one of the calcs I use converts to 1.043). Uh oh. I was expecting 1.041-42 at my normal 65% efficiency and I had not even boiled yet.

I boiled 90 min and got just shy of 5 gallons that came in at 13.6 brix (1.055 SG, which was darned close to the 1.052-3 I got when I double checked with a hydrometer). Since I was light on volume and heavy on gravity, I popped open a bottle of distilled water and topped up in the fermenter to my expected 5.25 gallons). This settled at 10.8 brix (1.048 SG) which will have to do.

So I figure my efficiency jumped by about 15% or more on this batch. I did take a little more time stirring than I have on recent batches, because I had been having lower than hoped for efficiency. Could that have justified the jump? Or is it the extra long mash? I usually mash a little higher in temp for around 60 min (until I get a good iodine test). Does the high level of adjuncts have something to do with it?

And finally, what should I expect from the finished product. Will I be massively under bitter by still coming in 6-7 points over what I was shooting for?

The final product is still pretty though. Pale gold and crystal clear pre ferment anyway. I did draw about 1/2 inch of unexpected trub in the fermente. But I figure 10-12 days in the primary and I will rack it and ad gelatin for about a week before I keg.
 
...and was quite surprised as well at how nicely the whole process went. No rice hulls used, and once the grain bed settled I opened the tap the whole way and everything flowed fantastic. Nice colour, anad hit OG dead on. I was amazed at how much foam was made, and how long it lasted! BierMuncher, I read through this whole thread 2x ... why fix what ain't broke??
Will update when I secondary, thanks so much for keeping things simple!

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Cream Ale Recipe

This is a very simple, inexpensive cream ale recipe that will get every BMC drinker in the room enjoying homebrew. So named because of the three different crops that go into the grist (Barley, Corn and Rice).

I brewed up 10 gallons of this and after kegging, bottled up a case to take to a family event (Mothers Day). Even my 78-yr old FIL, who is strict Miller Lite drinker, ended up having two pints. The chics dug it and we ran out well before the end of the evening.

The grain bill is cheap and in this case, you can use Minute Rice instead of flaked rice. No step mashing required. Simply combine the ingredients and follow a simple single infusion mash at around 152 degrees. I also mashed this for 90 minutes to get a highly attenuated beer. FG was 1.005...leaving a very dry, crisp beer with no noticeable graininess.

While this doesn't adhere to the strict beer laws, and I don't consider this one of my "craft" efforts, it is without a doubt the beer that I get the most "you really made this beer?" comments.

So if you've got some hard core "If it ain't Budweiser it ain't beer…" drinking friends…give this a try.

This beer clears up quickest of any of my recipes.

View attachment 5581


Batch Size: 11.50 gal
Boil Size: 14.26 gal
Estimated OG: 1.040 SG
Estimated Color: 2.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 14.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
12.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
4.00 lb Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM)
1.00 lb Minute Rice (1.0 SRM)

1.00 oz Williamette [5.20%] (60 min)
1.00 oz Crystal [3.50%] (60 min)


Great recipe BM. I joined the forum because I also have some friends who claim to be die hard bud lite drinkers yet every Thursday at beer and cigar night drink my beers. I want something cheap for those guys so I can have my beer for myself LOL

Any way I read the entire thread twice and tweaked it a little cutting down on the corn and using sazz since I have a ton of it. Having never brewed a light colored beer I am going to have to say it was a butt ugly brew in the pot.

Any way I read the whole thread 2 and I am sure you addressed this but I missed it. When you use gelatin in the secondary to clear the beer will that affect the carbonation when bottling. Sadly I do not have a kegging system yet and bottle everything.

I am going to rack this to the secondary in 4 days and start another batch tossed right on the same yeast I think. Tired of my buddies drinking my good beer LOL.

This is for anybody. I fought the temps with this recipe simply because it is a long mash and my tun is huge. Any ideas how to keep it warm. I used a blanket but even using amylasse enzyme in the mash it was a full 2 hours before the iodine test did not go black. I know the simple answer would be buy a smaller cooler but honestly my brew room is getting to the point it is hard to walk in as it is
 
Brewed this two months ago did 12 gallons I kegged five normal, and five with cranberry blue berry haven't tasted the regular yet. The cran/blue turned out surprisingly well for being a last minute concoction.

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My hydrometer looks just like Canadian Dave's. It tasted very BMC'ish. Should be great for this Easter Sunday. Thanks BierMuncher
 
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