Long fermentation lag Maibock

Hi there i brewed up AHS Anniversary Maibock saturday. Hit all my numbers and temps, pitched yeast and put it into my new fermentation chamber set at 65 per the instructions. The instructions say to leave at 65 until you see signs of fermentation, then drop the temp 1 degree per hour until down to the 52-55 range.

Well last night, Tuesday i still had no fermentation. I had stirred it up on Monday, then Tuesday night i took a hydro reading. It had not moved from brewday. So i shook up the fermenter again, put it back in the fermentation chamber and planned to go pickup another pack of yeast today. I did not use a starter, this is the last time i brew and don't make a starter.

Anway this morning i've got action in the airlock so fermentation has started thank goodness. I have 2 questions:

1. if it started fermenting sometime during the night will it effect anything since it was fermenting at 65 for at least 4-6 hours?

2. since i work during the day, i won't be able to drop the temp 1 degree per hour. Before i left for work today i dropped the temp to 60, then on my lunch break i plan to go home and drop it to 55, then when i get home from work tonight i'll drop it the last 3 degrees 1 degree per hour. Will dropping the temp 5 degrees in an hour have a negative effect?

Is 5 degrees too big of a change?

Did you make a starter?? Because lagers like BIG starters. Especially something stronger like a Maibock. I usually make at least a half gallon starter.

No, i talked about that in my original post

impur said:

Is 5 degrees too big of a change?

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In one hour? That sounds like too much of a shock to me (assuming you can achieve such a rapid change). That's one of the problems with pitching lager yeasts warm. You have to carefully lower the temp to avoid losing some cells that will drop out early. IMO, instead of counting on a lot of cell growth in the wort, it's better to pitch a lot of yeast at low temps.

Well live and learn. I went home to check things and the airlock is still bubbling away. I know that doesn't mean its definitely fermenting, but its something. Temp was steady at 60, so i dropped it to 57. Then i'll do the drop 1 degree per hour this evening.

I'll just have to RDWHAHB in the meantime

I would drop that **** quick! Fermenting a lager warm is much worse than anything else you could so.

impur said:

Is 5 degrees too big of a change?

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impur said:

Well live and learn. I went home to check things and the airlock is still bubbling away. I know that doesn't mean its definitely fermenting, but its something. Temp was steady at 60, so i dropped it to 57. Then i'll do the drop 1 degree per hour this evening.

I'll just have to RDWHAHB in the meantime

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tesilential said:

I would drop that **** quick! Fermenting a lager warm is much worse than anything else you could so.

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I really HATE those instructions! They aren't going to give you the best lager. Why they tell you to start warm and then drop the temperature (both in the kit instructions and on the yeast manufacturer's website) is to compensate somewhat for gross underpitching. The theory is that the yeast will reproduce faster at a warmer temperature, and then you can "catch" it and drop the temperature for fermentation.

The problem is that there is an overlap between reproductive phase and fermentation. By the time you get to 50 degrees, the bulk of fermentation can be over!

A lager fermented too warm can have some esters that will NOT go away, as well as diacetyl issues. In other words, if it's at 57 now, set your chamber to 49 now, and allow it to drop. It takes a LONG time for 5 gallons of fermenting beer to change temperature so it shouldn't stall fermentation.

For your next lager, pitch three times the yeast (or more!) and pitch at 45 degrees (yeast and wort).

^^^exactly

Personally I would set your freezer to 0* for an hour or two to cool it quickly. It will take another half day to go down if you set it at 50*.

Yooper said:

I really HATE those instructions! They aren't going to give you the best lager. Why they tell you to start warm and then drop the temperature (both in the kit instructions and on the yeast manufacturer's website) is to compensate somewhat for gross underpitching. The theory is that the yeast will reproduce faster at a warmer temperature, and then you can "catch" it and drop the temperature for fermentation.

The problem is that there is an overlap between reproductive phase and fermentation. By the time you get to 50 degrees, the bulk of fermentation can be over!

A lager fermented too warm can have some esters that will NOT go away, as well as diacetyl issues. In other words, if it's at 57 now, set your chamber to 49 now, and allow it to drop. It takes a LONG time for 5 gallons of fermenting beer to change temperature so it shouldn't stall fermentation.

For your next lager, pitch three times the yeast (or more!) and pitch at 45 degrees (yeast and wort).

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Thanks for the post. Not much i can do now, i'm at work and its set at 57 until i get home. I'll just drop it to 50 or lower when i get home depending on where its at and hope for the best.

And i'll definitely take your advice on the next lager

unionrdr said:

Idk,I made a doppel bock that was only OG 1.044,& it came out great. And I only made a quick,1 1/2C starter with 1/4C DME for 3.5 hours till pitch time. By wee hours of the morning,krausen was trying to blow the lid off! Maibocks aren't all that heavy. 5 degrees is a big change if done too quickly. That's why the gradual temp change is best to use over a day or two.

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Not to get too stickler, but an OG of 1.044 is nowhere near a doppelbock.
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.072 - 1.112 FG: 1.016 - 1.024

OP - sounds like a big part of the problem is not enough yeast and thermal shock. Even making a starter a couple hours earlier would give the yeast a head start.

Yah in the future starters will be made for all my brews.

Temp is down to 49 and still bubbling away

electric_beer said:

Not to get too stickler, but an OG of 1.044 is nowhere near a doppelbock.
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.072 - 1.112 FG: 1.016 - 1.024

OP - sounds like a big part of the problem is not enough yeast and thermal shock. Even making a starter a couple hours earlier would give the yeast a head start.

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First of all,doppel bocks aren't dark,heavy with alcohol beers for thick necked guys named Gunter.lolz. The Paulaner Salvator doppel bock is an ale,medium bodied,dark amber brew. I forget the ABV,tossed all the labels I soaked off. But the one I made (current avatar pic) is just about dead on color-wise,but a bit smoother tasting,with the hops on the back like the Salvator. Mine was 4.8%ABV,a little lower than the Salvator.
Dang it,it didn't put my quote in too. OOpsie-

unionrdr said:

First of all,doppel bocks aren't dark,heavy with alcohol beers for thick necked guys named Gunter.lolz. The Paulaner Salvator doppel bock is an ale,medium bodied,dark amber brew. I forget the ABV,tossed all the labels I soaked off. But the one I made (current avatar pic) is just about dead on color-wise,but a bit smoother tasting,with the hops on the back like the Salvator. Mine was 4.8%ABV,a little lower than the Salvator.
Dang it,it didn't put my quote in too. OOpsie-

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Not hating. I love good beer that doesn't have to be a crazy high %. In fact I rarely brew above 6%. I just meant that what you brewed wouldn't win a competition in the doppelbock category.

Calling it a bock would be a stretch, but a lot closer than doppelbock which is a higher achohol version of a bock.

And the Paulaner clocks in at 7.9% so....its almost double your abv. http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/124/387

Sorry to bring up semantics. I just thought I would help you learn the guidelines, but I like that you don't let them rule you. Brew on my friend.

electric_beer said:

Not hating. I love good beer that doesn't have to be a crazy high %. In fact I rarely brew above 6%. I just meant that what you brewed wouldn't win a competition in the doppelbock category.

Calling it a bock would be a stretch, but a lot closer than doppelbock which is a higher achohol version of a bock.

And the Paulaner clocks in at 7.9% so....its almost double your abv. http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/124/387

Sorry to bring up semantics. I just thought I would help you learn the guidelines, but I like that you don't let them rule you. Brew on my friend.

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I know what you're saying,I have a link to the guidelines. In truth,it was part happy accident,part calculated as I'd gotten an old can of LME (6/09!). I knew it would be darker,but well sealed. Used it anyway with 3lbs DME,& 2oz of 2 dif hops. If I'd have done it with more DME & hops,I could've gotten it up near 6%. But,the color & flavor profile was amazingly spot on. Wish I had some more left. They're more like guidelines anyway (captain Barbosa). So,to me,it doesn't have to be high ABV,but the rest was in there,trust me. I got 3 thumbs up from Gary Martin at home brewer tv with that one. His highest rating. He's a PHd besides,so I felt great about it. Especially beating out a commercial brew. Besides that,anyway,we were drinking a lot of the Salvator doppel bock lately. It's not finished any more than a dark amber mid strength ale,by the time it gets done making all that alcohol. Since I'll be using fresh ingredients next time,I'm re-formulating it to get the same effect,but maybe 6%+/-...

its probably no good to comment, but if you buy the Anniversary maibock again try using nottingham at room temp. Doing it with this kit has turned out some dang good beer. Ive dont it twice and it is like shooting fish in a barrell.