3 FLoyds Zombie Dust attempt. Help/info requested

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caioz1jp said:
For me I like my beer to age. I keg so at most im waiting 2 days to drink my beer. The 2 weeks in primary is usually because I'm lazy but also I like my beer as "clean" as i can get it. Since I don't keg i tack the extra two weeks on the secondary for extra conditioning, clearing, and general aging. If I keep my schedule should I just dry hope for 10 days at the begining or end of the 4 week secondary?
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I would do it at the end if kegging.
 
Depends on how long you age it. In my opinion, you shouldn't age anything where hop flavor is supposed to be the dominant flavor. Hop flavor mellows with time. The beer won't go bad, but it won't maintain the fresh, citra flavor.


I'm going to be brewing this up again soon. My first two versions tasted great, but I also noticed, as was mentioned a few pages back, that the recipe isn't bitter enough. I'm thinking of using something besides Citra for the FWH. Any suggestions?
 
I wouldnt "age" an IPA, but if you are planning to secondary for a month, the best way to maximize the good hop flavor/aroma is to dry hop at the end of that time and not the beginning. I actually like to keg hop also (and have a home-ade randall that works pretty nicely also).

To up the bitterness, you could just add a bit of something like warrior or magnum at the beginning to up the ibus.
 
Thanks skeezer.

I'm going to brew up a 10gal batch tomorrow and don't have the time/equipment to make starter with liquid yeast for this batch before tomorrow, so I"m going with dry yeast.

If I can't confidently keep S-04 under 65F... should I just go with S-05? My ferm temps in the basement are in the upper 60s but it is difficult for me in my current setup to be able to keep things in the lower 60s during August.
 
Skeezer,

I wanted to thank you for all your hard work on this clone/thread. I brewed up your recipe a couple months ago and its already almost gone. I had a friend bring a bottle of the real Zombie Dust(approx 2-3 months old) to our club meeting yesterday so we could see how close it was. Mine was a bit darker but i was surprised how close they were in color and taste. We had several people try the comparison side by side and believe it or not most liked mine better. It did seem to have a bit more hop character than the real thing. ZD was a bit more balanced but overall I didnt think either one was "the best". FFF can F off anyways since they dont want to share/distribute ZD in our market ;) I will just brew this up to get my fix :rockin:...................BTW, since I am slightly obsessed with Citra lately I brewed up the Double Citra IPA clone from the Brewing Network podcast a couple weeks ago. I hope it turns out as good as this one did. Smelling it so far I think its going to be a winner.
 
I'm thinking about brewing this soon, but I decided to take my typical approach to cloning anything: What would 3Floyds do?
They brew on a 35bbl system, so I tossed together what the recipe probably looks like at their volume:

2000lbs 2-row
200lb Munich (4 sacks)
100lb Medium English Crystal (50-60L) (2 sacks)
100lb Melanoidin (2 sacks)
11lb Magnum @ 90
22lb Citra @ 15
22lb Citra @ knockout (whirlpooled)
35lbs Citra Dry Hopped (1lb/bbl)

That would be my best guess at their recipe written at 35bbl. All the malts are clean easy numbers, that break down evenly into sack quantities. The hops are broken up in 11 and 44lb increments, and the dry hops are in lbs/bbl. When I scaled it down to 6 gallons, what I got was remarkably close to what skeezerpleezer has.

11lbs 2-row
1.1lb Munich
8.8oz 50-60L English Crystal
8.8oz Melanoidin

1oz Magnum @ 90
2oz Citra @ 15
2oz Citra @ flameout
3oz Citra Dry Hopped

Why the Magnum you ask? I'm pretty sure that Zombie dust is no longer a Citra-only beer. Considering it's a production beer, and no longer a brew-pub exclusive, it just makes sense. I'm sure they have Citra under contract, but using a clean bittering hop is more efficent. I also find Citra to be catty when it's used for bittering, and I've never heard ZD described as catty. This all leads me to believe they bitter it with something other than Citra.

Obviously Citra is used everywhere else. Pro brewers are lazy, so I simplified the hop additions. If you had to haul a 22lb bucket of hops up a ladder over a hot kettle, you probably would simplify the hop additions as well.

I've found that a lot of professional brewers use English caramel in their recipes. I could be wrong, and it very well could Briess C60. Who knows?

So ya, I'm going to brew that. I'll use WLP002 (1968) to ferment with. Hopefully it turns out pretty tasty.
 
Zeppman said:
Thanks skeezer.

I'm going to brew up a 10gal batch tomorrow and don't have the time/equipment to make starter with liquid yeast for this batch before tomorrow, so I"m going with dry yeast.

If I can't confidently keep S-04 under 65F... should I just go with S-05? My ferm temps in the basement are in the upper 60s but it is difficult for me in my current setup to be able to keep things in the lower 60s during August.
Click to expand...

Lower would be better, but I fermented a double batch at a friends house that doesn't have temp control, so it was probably 68-70 and it came out fine. That was with S-04. Either would probably be fine, just try to keep it as cool as possible.
 
Here is what I bottled tonight:

Zombie Dust Clone – Brewed with 50% Citra/50% Amarillo
Batch Size 3 gal
Estimated OG: 1.066 SG
Estimated Color: 8.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 65.0 IBUs

6.76 lb Pale 2 Row, US 81.7%
0.64 lb Munich 10L 7.7%
0.29 lb Carafoam 3.5%
0.29 lb Caramel 60L 3.5%
0.29 lb Melanoiden Malt 3.5%
0.25 oz Citra [11.40 %] - First Wort 20.0 min
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 15.0 minIBUs
0.50 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 15.0 min
0.33 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min
0.33 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 10.0 min
0.33 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.33 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.33 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 1.0 min
0.33 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 1.0 min
1.0 pkg London ESB Ale Wyeast Labs #1968
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Day
0.50 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days
Mash 154F

I drank the pint that didn't go into a bottle. Even flat this is awesome. Almost like a cask version. Amarillo/Citra rocks.
 
Thanks Skeezer.. Is this the latest recipe for this post? i am going to attempt this weekend..

Oh yea.. do you know of any good website to get the citra hops?

thanks again.



skeezerpleezer said:
If anyone has had this beer, they know why I am asking for input. It has moved up to the top of the APA rankings on beeradvocate for good reason. http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/26/64228

Does anyone have any information other than it is a Single Hop (Citra), 6.2%, 50 ibu APA?


***It seems we are getting somewhere on this clone. After a couple revisions, here is the updated Recipe--(I removed the original to avoid any confusion):

Batch Size: 6 gallons
Estimated Original Gravity: 1.065
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.018
Estimated Color: 8.5 SRM
Bitterness: 65.9 IBU
Mash Temp: 154 F
60 min boil

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.75 lb 2 Row (2.0 SRM) Grain 81.7 %
1.13 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 7.8 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.5 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3.5 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.5 %
0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops 17.0 IBU***
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 21.1 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 15.4 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 8.5 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.8 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
SafAle English Ale (S-04) **
London ESB 1968**

**For the first batch with this recipe, I split it and used the 2 different yeasts (S-04 and S-05). The S-04 was closer to the real Zombie Dust. The S-04 is fruitier, and had a bit higher FG (1.018 ) that the S-05 (dryer, more bitterness). I have also used 1968 and it was similar to the S-04, perhaps a bit fruitier and it was sweeter/higher FG. If using it I would recommend mashing a few degrees cooler. That said, I would recommend S-04 or 1968 at this time.

Here is the extract conversion for anyone interested:

6.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 70.6 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 11.8 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops 12.5 IBU***
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (60 min) Hops 25.1 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 12.4 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 9.1 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04)
or
Wyeast 1968

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.066 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.018 SG
Estimated Color: 9.0 SRM
Bitterness: 65.2 IBU

Steep the grains at in the mid 150s for 45-60 minutes. It is assuming a 5 gallon batch, 3 gallon - 60 minute boil, and adding the extract at the beginning. If you can do a full boil you probably wouldn't need the extra oz at 60minutes.

***The FWH ibus were calculated based on a 20 min boil to more accurately calculate the perceived bitterness.
Click to expand...
 
Yes, that's the recipe. A far as citra goes, I am not sure. Brewmasters warehouse might, but they aren't cheap. Te new harvest should be out soon.
 
skeezerpleezer said:
Yes, that's the recipe. A far as citra goes, I am not sure. Brewmasters warehouse might, but they aren't cheap. Te new harvest should be out soon.
Click to expand...

Word is that most, if not all of the Citra is accounted for in contracts and very little will be available for homebrewers. Hope that's not the case.
 
edroberts said:
Word is that most, if not all of the Citra is accounted for in contracts and very little will be available for homebrewers. Hope that's not the case.
Click to expand...

Better order in bulk the minute I see it somewhere...
 
I'm enjoying some of the real deal now and it's great. It was the biggest PITA to finally get to the brewery at the right time but well worth it for two cases. I picked up Citra a few months ago from Brewtensils in Dayton, Ohio and have about half a pound left for another try at a ZD clone.
 
Here's my attempt. I think I hit the color spot on. The real Zombie Dust is on the left. However, my version had more body and not quite the bitter punch backbone as the original. The original Zombie Dust seemed a little more crisp to me. My FG finished at 1.020 which is a little higher than the original. I measured the original Zombie Dust at 1.016. My recipe has:

80% 2 row pale malt
13.3% Munich Light malt
3.3% Carapils
3.3% Crystal 60L

I skipped the melanoiden malt. In my recipe (6.5 gallons) I used 9 ounces of Citra hops, 3 of which were in dry hopping. My mash was at 154/155F and I'm going to drop that closer to 150F and up the IBU's slightly. My calculated IBU's were at 70. I am contemplating switching to US-05, but I think I'll stick with US-04 again. I'll be sure to post my 2nd attempt, but it won't be for a while.

IMG_1056.jpg
 
For what it is worth, I made the recipe found at the top of this thread June 23, and just finished the keg last week. I reduced the first hop addition because my Citra was at 13.90%. The beer was GREAT. Very close to 3 Floyds, but it has been months since any of us had the original. The most common remark was this had a little more body to it. Regardless of how close this beer came out, this recipe is a winner! The next batch will be 10 gallons and will be one of the few brews that I will repeat. Thanks for this great thread!!!

In the spirit of full discloser, a bee flew over the wort during the boil and fell in. I found it in the spent hops while cleaning the keggle. I may have a hard time finding a bee when I brew this beer in November, but I’ll try!

OG:1.063
FG:1.015
ABV: 6.29%
SRM:9.2 (calculated)
IBUs:59.09 (calculated)
 
Just cracked open the first bottle, been in the bottle about 2 weeks. Taste is good but I hoping it will continue to improve over the next week or two. It just didn't seem as if it was "done".

Color is just a little darker than what I was hoping for but not too far off from what I've seen.

ForumRunner_20120906_182645.jpg
 
eanmcnulty said:
Here is what I bottled tonight:

Zombie Dust Clone – Brewed with 50% Citra/50% Amarillo
Batch Size 3 gal
Estimated OG: 1.066 SG
Estimated Color: 8.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 65.0 IBUs

6.76 lb Pale 2 Row, US 81.7%
0.64 lb Munich 10L 7.7%
0.29 lb Carafoam 3.5%
0.29 lb Caramel 60L 3.5%
0.29 lb Melanoiden Malt 3.5%
0.25 oz Citra [11.40 %] - First Wort 20.0 min
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 15.0 minIBUs
0.50 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 15.0 min
0.33 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min
0.33 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 10.0 min
0.33 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.33 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.33 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 1.0 min
0.33 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 1.0 min
1.0 pkg London ESB Ale Wyeast Labs #1968
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Day
0.50 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days
Mash 154F

I drank the pint that didn't go into a bottle. Even flat this is awesome. Almost like a cask version. Amarillo/Citra rocks.
Click to expand...

I recommend trying this with Citra/Amarillo. Fantastic. Only two weeks in the bottle and the favor is just awesome. This will go quickly.
For the next batch I'm going to ad Simcoe to the mix. I'll post it.
 
lopatkam said:
In the spirit of full discloser, a bee flew over the wort during the boil and fell in. I found it in the spent hops while cleaning the keggle. I may have a hard time finding a bee when I brew this beer in November, but I’ll try.
Click to expand...

Try to find an Africanized Honey Bee, a Killer Bee. It will give your beer a more aggressive profile.
 
Just brewed this on Sunday ... followed the recipe except I just added 4oz of melanoidin as I have found it a bit too powerful at 3.6% of the grist in past brews.

Pitched S-04 and after 8 hours it has a crazy ferment going... the airlock sounds like a machine gun....

Smells AWESOME from the airlock!!!! hope it tastes as great as it smells...

I will post tasting results in 4 weeks
 
A little help here, im a newbie :)...So i brewed this up last night around 9:30.. I used the above extract version.. i have it sitting in the primary glass carboy and i realized i am sitting at about 4.2 gallons instead of 5.. not sure what happened :) i think some boil off and just distracted by the denver game..... my original gravity was way high, 1.078..I am sure due to the 4.2 gallons instead of 5? also i took the reading just after i added the yeast and not sure if that would affect it?

questions: since it is still fermenting, can i still add in water at this point? or is it best to leave? it has been in the primary for 24 hours but still bubbling strong.. what does everyone recommend.. Thanks!
 
one follow up question to the above.. if i do not add water, do you recommend leaving it in the primary for dry hopping as opposed to racking to a secondary for dry hopping.. my thought process to this is to minimize the potential loss of volume when racking to secondary.


kaj102wiu said:
A little help here, im a newbie :)...So i brewed this up last night around 9:30.. I used the above extract version.. i have it sitting in the primary glass carboy and i realized i am sitting at about 4.2 gallons instead of 5.. not sure what happened :) i think some boil off and just distracted by the denver game..... my original gravity was way high, 1.078..I am sure due to the 4.2 gallons instead of 5? also i took the reading just after i added the yeast and not sure if that would affect it?

questions: since it is still fermenting, can i still add in water at this point? or is it best to leave? it has been in the primary for 24 hours but still bubbling strong.. what does everyone recommend.. Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
kaj102wiu said:
one follow up question to the above.. if i do not add water, do you recommend leaving it in the primary for dry hopping as opposed to racking to a secondary for dry hopping.. my thought process to this is to minimize the potential loss of volume when racking to secondary.
Click to expand...

If you go up to 5g, you will have around 1.065 (.078*4.2/5). I dont know about topping off now, i assume it would be ok this soon after the start of fermentation. If you did it, you would want to boil and cool it first.

For dry-hopping, a lot of people do it in primary. I usually rack to a keg, then dry hop in bags in the keg, then carb. The hops will absorb the same regardless of if you are in primary or secondary.
 
Thanks man.... i think i will leave it as is to be safe and then dry hop in the primary.. Should i make any adjustments to amount of hops for dry hopping due to the lower amount? when dry hopping in a glass carboy do i just dump the pellets loose right in that bad boy and then siphon out when moving to bottling bucket? Thanks for your help!


skeezerpleezer said:
If you go up to 5g, you will have around 1.065 (.078*4.2/5). I dont know about topping off now, i assume it would be ok this soon after the start of fermentation. If you did it, you would want to boil and cool it first.

For dry-hopping, a lot of people do it in primary. I usually rack to a keg, then dry hop in bags in the keg, then carb. The hops will absorb the same regardless of if you are in primary or secondary.
Click to expand...
 
I would just use the same. The higher gravity will like more dryhops. And yes, you can just dump them in. Some people put a sanitized paint strainer over the siphon when transferring to help filter the hops.
 
So psyched going to brew 10 gallons of this this on Sat. I am hoping to have at least 1 keg ready for a comp and deadline is Oct12. I know its probably not optimal but we will see. I can't wait to try it also.
 
Just kegged my second batch of this, of course had to try a sip or two after only one day in the keg.......just as good as the first batch. Love this stuff:ban:
 
Mashing as we speak. I upped the FWH to 1 oz. Plan to dry hop 3.5 ounces in the keg. I am also going to add my 0 min hops in at 180 degree and allow them to steep for 30 min.

I used my hoppy water profile of:
Calcium(Ca):103 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 15 ppm
Sodium(Na): 8.7 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 32 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 195 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3):109 ppm
 
I have seen in another thread you (skeezer) mentioned that galaxy, while not perfect, is a good substitution for citra. how about amarillo? i have 4 oz of Citra - where would you substitute another hop?
 
I would say galaxy and motueka are good subs for citra. Obviously you could bitter with a different hop and be ok. If it were me I would use some citra spread out over all the late additions and dry hopping and combine that with whatever you have on hand. I get more in your face citrus from amarillo then tropical flavors like citra. If that's what you got then go with it should still.be a great beer.
 
doublehaul said:
I have seen in another thread you (skeezer) mentioned that galaxy, while not perfect, is a good substitution for citra. how about amarillo? i have 4 oz of Citra - where would you substitute another hop?
Click to expand...

Yeah, Galaxy is similar IMO. You needing a sub for Amarillo, or planning to use it in place of Citra. If subbing for Citra, others have had good results with using it in this recipe.
 
i am a newbie as far as hops go. couldn't i just bitter with something else - a clean bittering hop? Or would that impact flavor?
 
Just tasted my first glass of the extract recipe.. Amazing!! I am lucky enough to have some actual zombie at home and i did a taste test/comparison.. taste is spot on! the color was a bit off but i am sure my miss calculation on volume (4.2 gallons) had something to do with that.. plus i could care less about color :)....A big thanks to Skeezer!!
 
My buddy just picked up 2 cases of ZD from the brewery. 12 of those babies are coming my way, and I intend to brew this clone to compare (if I can keep them around long enough..)
 
HawksBrewer said:
My buddy just picked up 2 cases of ZD from the brewery. 12 of those babies are coming my way, and I intend to brew this clone to compare (if I can keep them around long enough..)
Click to expand...

that was my problem.. by the time i was ready to compare i only had 1 bottle of the real zombie left :) but thats not a problem anymore :)
 
kaj102wiu said:
Just tasted my first glass of the extract recipe.. Amazing!! I am lucky enough to have some actual zombie at home and i did a taste test/comparison.. taste is spot on! the color was a bit off but i am sure my miss calculation on volume (4.2 gallons) had something to do with that.. plus i could care less about color :)....A big thanks to Skeezer!!
Click to expand...

Glad you liked it. I need to make some more, just killed another keg last week. Doesnt last long around here.
 

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