Pale ale recipe

So I have been wanting to do a good standard extract pale ale Brew. I think I have decided to try the Stone pale ale recipe however in the store-bought stone, there is a slight earthy aftertaste I don't love. I think it might be the Ahtanum hops. I have made the NBs Sierra Madre and really like that hop flavor which I think might be mostly a cascade flavor. So what I was thinking is merging the two recipes. Here is the original:

3 lb. Gold dry malt extract
3.3 lb. Gold liquid malt extract
1.5 lb. Caramel 60L, 6 oz. Dark Crystal
0.71 oz. Magnum bittering hops-60min
1 oz. Ahtanum flavor hops-15min
1 tsb Irish moss-15min
Wyeast ESB 1968

I was thinking about substituting the Ahtanum hops for 1 ounce of cascade at 15 minutes and possibly an additional 1 ounce of cascade at zero minutes. Also thinking about adding another half pound of extract or corn sugar.
This is my first attempt at changing recipes so i was wondering if anyone has any opinion on how this one might turn out? thanks.

I am not familiar with either starting recipes, but almost 2 lbs of crystal malt in a 5 gallon recipe is more than I would go. Especially considering extract is mashed with some unfermentable sugars already. I would cut that down some or you will end up with a high FG.

Your other changes sound really great!

trapae said:

. Also thinking about adding another half pound of extract or corn sugar.
This is my first attempt at changing recipes so i was wondering if anyone has any opinion on how this one might turn out? thanks.

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Is "Gold" a brand name or an indication of color? If the latter, I'd get extra-pale LME & DME. Assuming Gold is like Amber LME/DME, you're looking at about 20SRM, which is rather high for the style. Even if it's pale, your 3.5 SRM High.

But the real issue is the crystal--some people go over 10% crystal in a pale ale; I personally never go more than 5-7% max. You have about 25%. As the last post pointed out, this amount of crystal plus extract means you're likely to end with a sweet, under attenuated beer.

Maybe stick with the amber/gold extract, but if it were my PA I'd cut to .5# C60 & 6oz Dark Crystal. In that scenario, I'd likely add a lb of corn sugar also.

Let us know what you go with and how it comes out, please!

Gold is usually just mashed with 2 row and some carapils for 80% attenuation.

Sierra Nevada Pale Ale has 1 lb of C60, and for finishing hops has 1 ozs Cascade @ 10 and 2 ozs at 0.

How does that compare to the beers you are wanting to copy.

I thought Centennial Hops were the main ones in Stone, maybe that's the IPA.

Since I am pretty new to brewing, I guess I don't understand some things. The crystal you guys are talking about I assume is the 1.5 lb. Caramel 60L and 6 oz. Dark Crystal. I got the original recipe from the midwest rocky pale ale and this portion states it is the specialty grains which will be steeped. So if those are just the steeping specialty grains, will that still make a sweet under attenuated beer? Also the gold in the recipe is for Briess gold. Thanks for the help.

Someone more technically knowledgeable about crystal malts may chime in here, but from what I understand you can get the same yield of long-chain sugars by steeping crystal as you can from mashing. That is to say, the wetting & kilning of malts to make them "crystal" or "caramel" converts the sugars to be freely available without needing enzymes like some other specialty grains need.

Short version: yes, you may still get a sweet, less attenuated beer.

I should be clear, however, that I'm biased against a lot of crystal malt in my Pale Ales. I like the hops to shine, and the crystal flavor tends (IMO) to mute them a bit. Sierra Nevada PA, for instance, is a bit more crystal (malty, caramel flavor) than I like even though it's THE classic example of the style. So as Calder noted, think of whether you like SNPA or not... especially that caramel (or crystal--same thing) malt flavor. Then consider that the SNPA recipe would call for 16oz of crystal 60, while the recipe you reported calls for 30oz total. That's almost DOUBLE the amount in SNPA, and 6oz of that are dark crystal which gives a sort of dark plum/burnt raisin (think oatmeal cookie) flavor. If that's what you're going for, then have at it! That's what homebrewing is all about, eh?

trapae said:

Since I am pretty new to brewing, I guess I don't understand some things. The crystal you guys are talking about I assume is the 1.5 lb. Caramel 60L and 6 oz. Dark Crystal. I got the original recipe from the midwest rocky pale ale and this portion states it is the specialty grains which will be steeped. So if those are just the steeping specialty grains, will that still make a sweet under attenuated beer? Also the gold in the recipe is for Briess gold. Thanks for the help.

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Yes. Crystal malts are malts that have the starches converted into sugars while still in the husk. This is different than your standard base malt 2-row barley which has only been malted(germination has started and then stopped at specific times to make enzymes available to convert starch to sugar). When you mash malts like your standard 2-row, you can control the kinds of sugars you get based on time and temperature. When using extract, this is already done for you and concentrated.

Crystal malts have had this starch to sugar process done while still at the malt house and tend to produce mostly sugars that are unfermentable by brewers yeasts. So, this allows you to just be able to steep these grains to extract the sugars from them. The by product of this fact is you are locked into the types of sugars that have already been created. These malts are made to lend body and caramel flavor/sweetness to beers, and will raise your finishing gravity accordingly causing a sweet, underattenuated beer(when used in excess). Not what you want in a pale ale.

You especially want to limit your crystal malts(crystal and caramel term is interchangeable) when using extract as you are locked into the fermentability of the extract also. Which, with Briess Gold, it also already has some body/mouthfeel built into it with the use of carapils malt.

Thanks, that helps greatly