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Slipgate

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Malaysian model, mother to be caned for drinking beer in public - CNN.com

(CNN) -- A Malaysian model, who is set to become the first woman in the Southeast Asian country to be caned for drinking alcohol in public, wants her punishment carried out in public.


Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno says that if a caning is meant to teach a lesson, then it should be in public.

Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno said Thursday that if the intent of the Islamic, or Shariah, court that sentenced her was to set an example for other Muslims, then the flogging should take place in the open.

"Let's be transparent about it," she said.

"We want to challenge them," added Kartika's father, Shukarno Abdul Muttalib. "The law is a little bit wrong. They say they are gentlemen who want to uphold values. Then the public should judge how gentlemanly it is."

An Islamic court in the eastern state of Pahang fined Kartika $1,400 (5,000 Malaysian ringgit) and sentenced her to six strokes with a rattan cane for drinking beer at a hotel bar two years ago.

Kartika, a 32-year-old part-time model, was visiting Malaysia from Singapore, where she lives with her husband and two children.

She pleaded guilty and has paid the fine.

Malaysia, which considers itself a moderate Muslim country, forbids alcohol consumption by Muslims -- even those who are visiting.

The country has a dual-track justice system, in which Islamic courts operate alongside civil ones.

The law forbidding alcohol applies only to Muslims, who make up about 60 percent of the population. The country's Buddhist, Christian or Hindu population can drink freely.

Kartika's case has caused an uproar, with many citing it as another example of growing fundamentalism in the multiracial country.

In northern Malaysia's Kelantan state, authorities have forbidden Muslim women from wearing bright lipstick and noisy, high-heeled shoes, saying the ban will safeguard the morals and dignity of the women, as well as thwart rape.

"We want to present a face to the world that we are not a fundamentalist country," Ashli Chin, said a resident in Kuala Lumpur. "This makes us a laughingstock."

Mohamad Isa Abd Ralip, president of the Syariah [Shariah] Lawyers' Association of Malaysia, said too much is being made of Kartika's punishment.

"It is not about causing pain. It is about educating others and to teach the person a lesson," he said.

The recipient is fully clothed and the flogger cannot raise his arm high, Mohamad Isa said. The blows are delivered using a thin stick, so that they don't break the skin.

Malaysia's civil court does not call for caning for alcohol consumption. It also cannot overrule a Shariah court sentence.

The civil courts do, however, hand out flogging sentences for serious offenses such as rape.

Neighboring Singapore also metes out caning as punishment. One of the most notable cases was that of American teenager Michael Fay, who received four strokes for vandalism in 1994.

Kartika's punishment is unique because she has opted to go through with it, which would make her the first woman to be caned for drinking alcohol in public, Mohamad Isa said.

Two other Malaysians sentenced to the same fate have filed appeals.

Kartika will be taken from her father's house Monday. The caning will be carried out within seven days after that.

"I'm not really afraid. I feel relief," she said. "I want to move on. This case has been hanging over me for a long time."
 
I would gladly live in Malaysia. Just not as a muslim woman.

32 years old, Married, with children and a model (i.e. public figure).

She knew what she was doing and was posturing herself for a statement. Who knows. But I'd almost guarantee you she knew the consequences before she took action.

And you think OUR bible thumpers are a pain.
 
Why is this our business. There's a law in her country, she broke it, she does the punishment for it. I don't agree with the law, but it's there. SHe doesn't seem to have a problem with it. Why is CNN sticking there nose in something so unimportant?
 
Because it paint s a sensational view on a religious viewpoint that we (as a nation) don't understand.
 
Why is this our business. There's a law in her country, she broke it, she does the punishment for it. I don't agree with the law, but it's there. SHe doesn't seem to have a problem with it. Why is CNN sticking there nose in something so unimportant?

Ever Jaywalk? Think you should be caned for it?

It is important, and something that should be reported on. Should we have seperate laws for different religions here? Different races? Where do we draw the line?
 
Ever Jaywalk? Think you should be caned for it?

It is important, and something that should be reported on. Should we have seperate laws for different religions here? Different races? Where do we draw the line?

We debate the merits of theocracy all we want (though it should stay out of the general beer discussion threads), but the fact remains that this is a sovereign country with its own laws. As a nation, we really don't know a thing about this religious viewpoint.

We could use some public corporal punishment here in the US from time to time.
 
We debate the merits of theocracy all we want (though it should stay out of the general beer discussion threads), but the fact remains that this is a sovereign country with its own laws. As a nation, we really don't know a thing about this religious viewpoint.

We could use some public corporal punishment here in the US from time to time.

I guarantee you if caning of pregnant women who drink were an option here, many of the religios sects would apply it.
 
Why is it important?

1. On a most basic level, it is important for us as a people to learn things about other countries - ALL other countries - and to stay informed. The world gets smaller by the day, and everything matters. Long gone are the days when you had no idea what was happening a state over and didn't need to know. Everything happening in this world has an impact on everything else.

2. Kartika is right. Things like this need to be made transparent. If it's the "right" course of action, the perpetrators (in this case Malaysia) shouldn't be afraid for the public at large - and by this, I mean the WORLD - to know about it. If they don't want it known, that should tell them right away there's something wrong with it. Secrecy is dangerous. Knowledge IS power, trite and cliche as that sounds.

It is important to shed light on bigotry, sexism, and abuse, no matter where in the world it's occurring. Secrecy on the part of the Nazis and ignorance on the part of other governments, after all, permitted the concentration camps to run for six years, killing about 12,000,000 people. Had others known, had they believed what was going on, maybe some of those people could have been saved.

I don't care why CNN is reporting on this. I don't care if it's spurred by the best of intentions, by the need for sensationalism, or by the desire for marketing dollars. I care that the result is that it IS being reported - as it should be - and that it is OUR job to sit up and take notice.
 
I guarantee you if caning of pregnant women who drink were an option here, many of the religios sects would apply it.

They'd try to, maybe, but our federal and state governments would never allow it. Gotta love that Eight Amendment.
 
It's wrong for a person to assume they are immune to the laws of the area in which they sit, and drink.

It's not the law of the area. It's the law of the area for Muslims. I could sit next to her and have a drink legally.
 
Did you express similar outrage when Michael Fey was caned in Singapore in 1994?

No, I thought that he broke a law in the country and should be punished.

I don't have a problem with the method of punishment used for breaking a law. I have a problem with there being different laws for different people.
 
I don't have a problem with the method of punishment used for breaking a law. I have a problem with there being different laws for different people.

Because different people regardless of race or wealth are NEVER treated any differently here, in the eyes of the law. :rolleyes:

At least there, it's defined.
 
Exactly.

Did you overlook the fact that she IS a Muslim?

That is exactly my point! Why should she be treated differently than someone that isn't Muslim? Does she have to ride on the back of the bus too? Or should she be put in a work camp?
 
This really isn't a beer forum topic.
That alcohol is involved is trivial to the matter.


Take it up in the debate area if you want.
 
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