pliney the elder clone

7lbs light or extra light DME
8oz crystal 45 malt
8oz carapils malt
12oz corn sugar added to boil


3.5oz Columbus hops @ 90 min
1.0oz Columbus hops @ 45 min
1.0oz simcoe hops @ 30 min
1.0oz centennial hops @ 15 min
2.5oz simcoe hops @ 5 min

Dry hop 1-5 day
1oz Columbus 1oz simcoe 1oz centennial

Second addition 5-10 day
.25oz simcoe .25oz centennial .25oz columbus

You don't need carapils when brewing an extract version of this beer. Extract already contains a percentage of carapils, presumably 3-6% total original grist. Furthermore, extract beers rarely have issues with head retention or body. If anything, you want more fermentability... which means more sugar. If you remove the carapils, you could go with a full 1 lb. of corn sugar here, which would then equal 12% of the fermentables.

I would not follow the all grain clone advice for an extract version of PtE. 90 minutes is a long time to boil extract. Very unnecessary. You might want to look into revising this schedule, as well as the hop amounts/times. If you want more fermentability, the proper color, and overall more of a "clone" of this beer, then you're much better off looking into a full volume boil Partial Mash version (if you can't brew via All Grain). You will definitely need to make an appropriate sized yeast starter as well.

Lastly, go with Extra Light Extract and add the majority of it at flameout. This will mostly help you attain a paler color and offer better hop utilization.

Vinnie Cilurzo has it posted online it is the top one.


[ame]http://www.google.com/search?q=pliney+the+elder+clone&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-ContextMenu&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7ADRA_enUS431#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=1&gs_ri=serp&pq=pliny%20the%20elder%20clone&cp=23&gs_id=8&xhr=t&q=pliny+the+elder+clone+vinnie&es_nrs=true&pf=p&tbo=d&rls=com.microsoft:en-us%3AIE-ContextMenu&rlz=1I7ADRA_enUS431&sclient=psy-ab&oq=pliny+the+elder+clone+v&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41248874,d.b2I&fp=3725a230c1af26d4&biw=1024&bih=570[/ame]

I am aware of the PDF. I'm not sure Vinnie Cilurzo "wrote" it... rather he was interviewed and the author of the article gave the reader something close to his recipe/techniques for the actual PtE. But one thing is for sure, Vinnie does not brew extract versions of PtE, nor do I think he would recommend it in an "audio" interview if cloning the beer is your goal. He would most likely urge All Grain, or at least Partial Mash.

If you wish, you can brew the dumbed down extract instructional from 2009 and see where it gets you. When you realize you end up at 1.018-1.020 FG and a flavor-aroma profile nothing like PtE, then maybe you can revisit this thread. I've also heard rumors in the past 2 years that some Amarillo was added late in the recipe.

Well that's why I wanted to put this up so so guys could adjust it for me for a proper extract version. Is this too much hops? I wanted to use this method of hopping its called bursting.

The hopping concept that Russian River employs for this beer is huge additions of everything...

*Huge early hop additions
*Huge middle hop additions
*Huge late hop additions (What we typically call, "Hop Bursting")
*Huge dry hop additions

So in theory, they burst it all.

Russian River follows a 90/45/30/0/DH hop schedule. However, this schedule can be bended a bit for a 60 minute extract version. I would do 60/30/15/0/DH.

I believe RR uses 12.5 oz. total hops for their 90 minute, full volume boil All Grain version (8 gallons in the kettle, 5 gallons in the fermenter). Pliny is dryhopped 3 or 4 times (in stages) with 0.75 oz. dryhops per gallon of beer for a total of 12-14 days. Without having much brewing experience or introducing C02, I would advise that you dryhop in one stage.

So should I just take out the carapils and use the 7lbs light dme and the 8oz crystal and use a pound of corn sugar? Then use the 60/30/15/0/dh cause I'm wanting to use the 5 gal extract version with a partial boil at prob 2.5 to 3 gallons. What do you think a good hop would be at each time of the boil. Like how many ounces to use at each addition?

Partial boil is probably the biggest mistake you could make if you want to brew a clone of such a hop forward beer.

I will post my partial mash clone in a bit and you can make tweaks and go from there.

bobbrews said:

If you wish, you can brew the dumbed down extract instructional from 2009 and see where it gets you. When you realize you end up at 1.018-1.020 FG and a flavor-aroma profile nothing like PtE, then maybe you can revisit this thread.

Click to expand...

Unnecessary, condescending and certainly not helpful.

bobbrews said:

Without having much brewing experience or introducing C02, I would advise that you dryhop in one stage.

Click to expand...

Again, unnecessary.

@hawksbrewer can you help me out. Can you tweak my problems I have in the recipe to help me with a proper one. I wanna do this right because this will be a 70 or 80 dollar batch to brew

Well I have no other means of doing a full boil. I have had great success with partial boils and big ipa's. I did a surly furious clone a while back and have it kegged and its very delicious and very hippy.

Hoppy*

brewtus72 said:

Well I have no other means of doing a full boil. I have had great success with partial boils and big ipa's. I did a surly furious clone a while back and have it kegged and its very delicious and very hippy.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't stress too much on a full boil if it is not possible... sometimes you need to work w/ what you have. Do a partial boil w/ what you have listed. I might drop some of the carapils since even the lightest extracts have a small % of it 'built in.' Maybe go w/ 4oz instead of 8oz. Add 2 lbs of the extract at the beginning of the boil and the rest at the end (5min from end of boil). This will help w/ your hop utilization. A 60min boil is not a bad idea for extract, just load up on hops along the way. A 2-stage dry hop will definitely help, do the initial dry hop in primary for 5 days, then rack to a secondary for the 2nd stage (again, 5 days). Should be delicious and plenty hoppy, regardless of whether or not it is a 'perfect clone' of Pliny.

HawksBrewer said:

Unnecessary, condescending and certainly not helpful.

Again, unnecessary.

Click to expand...

Well that's just like, your opinion, man.

You strike me as someone who is content with mediocrity. That's fine. But I'm trying to help the OP out, not you.

bobbrews said:

Well that's just like, your opinion, man.

You strike me as someone who is content with mediocrity. That's fine. But I'm trying to help the OP out, not you.

Click to expand...

Not at all, I just feel like wording things differently might be more helpful and less condescending. The dude abides.

It was not exactly my goal to write things in a way that suited your personal opinion of constructive advice. Sorry.

I don't see how stating the obvious facts that I have gained from experience and saving beginner brewers from the same mistakes is condescending. You might just have a chip on your shoulder. The only thing condescending I wrote was when I mentioned that you may be content with mediocrity. But then again, you called me out first so there's that.

Will he have a drinkable extract IIPA with a partial boil, no yeast starter, unnecessary carapils, and a 90 minute boil of extract? Sure. Will it be great or anything at all like PtE?? Nope.

bobbrews said:

I will post my partial mash clone in a bit and you can make tweaks and go from there.

Click to expand...

http://hopville.com/recipe/1676820

brewtus72 said:

Well I have no other means of doing a full boil.

Click to expand...

HawksBrewer said:

... sometimes you need to work w/ what you have.

Click to expand...

Two schools of thought on the ability to do a full volume boil:

1) You have to work with what you have. (LIMITED)
2) Where there's a will there's a way. (SKY'S THE LIMIT)

Do some research and find ways to brew without topping off. That way you're not so limited. Dual kettles, borrowing a larger kettle for a day, buying a new kettle, straddling two burners at once... whatever gets you there. Your beers will be better, trust me.

I would like to try the recipe that I have but do a 60 min boil. If I would be better off using something in place of the carapils I will. Yes I am new and do need help. Do I brew beer as good as you, no I prob do not and am prob not even close but I have brewed some very good very balanced ipa's thus far. This recipe is going to be extract with specialty grains, I have never came up with my own recipe. This was my first attempt at using a recipe and kinda just trying to make it my own. If you guys would just tell me what grains I should use for my steep and my correct dme, I will try and work in my own little hop schedule amounts and timing. Thanks alto for all the great advice ahead of time guys!

I am doing a 10G batch, do I double the hop additions or do the scale up differently?