Double IPA 5-6% ABV

Can anyone tell me why this isn't a real thing? Personally, I'd love to drink a super hoppy 5.5% beer.

Brew one. I could only imagine the "lighter" beer would lack a certain amount of malt character to kind of balance out the hops, but that's part of why we brew our own. We can make whatever we want.

You can easily do this. Just keep the IBUs around 40 and do a massive late hop addition and/or dryhop. Dry hopping won't change the IBUs and won't make the beer too bitter, though it does increase perceived bitterness slightly. I think the main problem you're going to have is that hop flavor can be kind of rough, especially at first, and the roughness will go unchecked by malt backbone.

Thanks for the input guys!

I found a couple of recipes -

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/low-abv-apa-ipa-321618/

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=2661.0

That's been my "holy grail" for brewing for quite a few years. I want to make a great hoppy beer but without only being able to drink one! I've done "ok" with some (one on tap now that is 4.9% ABV) but it's the hardest thing I've tried to do and do well. This one now is an IPA that I stripped down to session beer strength, using Tasty McDole's APA recipe as an inspiration.

It's because I want a firm malt backbone to support all of the hops, but with an OG of 1.049 or less. A couple of things I"ve learned- one is to use "malty malts" to support the hops and make it feel "bigger" than it is. Munich malt is great, Vienna malt, and so on, for character malts along with a bit of aromatic malt and/or victory malt for depth. Don't use much crystal (this recipe has none, but some is fine if you like it), as it can be cloying and cover up the hops. Use lots of late hops, and a couple of different varieties, so that the hops character is "layered" and deep for a low OG beer if that makes sense. Dryhopping is required!

I've made some very good beers this way- but I never made one that I would say nailed it. It's really hard to get the right balance with such a low OG. I want a small IPA that drinks bigger, that's all!

Care to share a rough idea of the recipie it is a goal of mine as well.

This thread is a few months old, but I am really interested in this concept so I'd love to hear more discussion on this. I started thinking about it after reading this article here: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/6351/doubleIPA.pdf

In the article, Vinnie from Russian River talks about the experimentation that went on after Pliny the Elder to develop Pliny the Younger. He says that at first, he thought about doing the increased hop addition and at the same time lowering the abv to 6-7%. In the end, they pushed it to 11%, but he mentions still wanting to experiment with this concept.

A lot of people refer to "balance" and providing a good "malt backbone," to contrast with the hops... and if you look at the list of Imperial/Double IPAs on Beer Advocate's website, there are only about 3 (out of hundreds!) that are in the mid-7% range (2 of which are west coast).... most are all 8% and up, resulting from a higher grain bill and often sugar. So it gets me thinking... have I ever tasted an "unbalanced" DIPA? What would an "unbalanced" DIPA taste like? I have no idea... never have I tasted a beer where I thought, 'wow, that's just too many hops, not malty enough." In fact, among what I consider some of the hoppiest beers out there (SN's Hoptimum comes to mind), it's still the "malt punch" and not the "hop punch" that makes me take notice.

So, instead of just gradually creeping away from the "balanced," malty, high abv DIPAs into low-abv, ultra-hoppy territory, I would like to purposely create an "unbalanced" DIPA, cutting back on the entire grain bill, but perhaps using the same proportions. More gentle hops, more citrus and floral (see Vinnie's suggestion of Kent Golding hops), and less spicy, resinous, and piney (like SN's Torpedo).

I'd love to hear if you ever brewed an "unbalanced" DIPA. I am newer to brewing, but wouldn't you just create something like a Pale Ale that had a good amount of mouthfeel, and then adjust the amount of hops? I'd imagine you could even do several boils each with increasing amount of hops...

It seems as though breweries are slowly catching on. Both Founders and Lagunitas have commercial examples trying to demonstrate this. I think the main reason why it has not been a style in the past is because of viability in the market place. Here in America, we charge roughly the same for a 5% beer and a 8% beer. When people are out, they are going go for the best bang for the buck. They really aren't going to pay $7 for a 4% beer. I think this is a major gap in the market place. It's not the same in England where the price is more related to the % alcohol, which is only fair.

I think Row2 Hill 56 from Russian river (all simcoe pale ale) is a great example of a hoppy pale ale (better description for a lower ABV beer then calling it a low ABV double IPA which is an oxymoron IMHO). I'd do whatever Yooper says tbh. She knows.

I know it doesn't fall into the realm of "ulta hoppy", but Stone Levitation is a low abv hoppy pale ale that I think is great.

BreezyBrew said:

Can anyone tell me why this isn't a real thing? Personally, I'd love to drink a super hoppy 5.5% beer.

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Im doing this kinda beer right now. Based very closely on the "bitter american" clone recipe. With a couple mods/subs.

12 gallon batch
14 lbs golden promise
20 oz munich
8 oz crystal 10-20
8 oz crystal 30-40
8 oz crystal 120

1.5 oz g. Magnums 60 mins
2 oz amarillo 20 mins
4 oz simcoe tossed in during last 15 mins every 1 min
Off top of my head og was 1.043ish and ibus 50ish

Split into 2 so4 in one and wy1007 in other, we will see.......

Correction, 14 lbs golden promise i believe, on phone and cant edit original post.


Thanks to the poster below with the tip....

bighorn_brew said:

Correction, 14 lbs golden promise i believe, on phone and cant edit original post.

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If you're using the app, long press your post to edit.

Perhaps a lower attenuating yeast would help with the malt/hops balance. WLP011 is first that comes to mind. It's a clean yeast and 65-70% attenuation. WLP002 is also lower attenuating yeast but puts out a lot of fruit.

Okay, to follow up on this idea... I am currently brewing a "session IPA" using BYO's Pliny the Toddler, with a few tweaks. The hops are VERY dominate. Here's what I brewed:

5.5 gal

3.5 lbs MO
3.5 lbs 2-row
1.0 lb CaraPils
0.5 lb sucrose

0.75 oz Warrior 60 mins (16AA)
0.75 oz Galena 10 mins (12AA)
0.75 oz Cascade 10 mins (6.2AA)
0.75 oz Cascade 0 mins (6.2AA)

Safale US-05

Single-infusion mash @ 152.5 F 60 mins
90 min boil
Actual OG = 1.046
After 5 days fermentation (today) = 1.008 (~5% abv)
IBU estimate = 67

It tastes awesome. It's dry, with only a hint of sweetness, and a strong hop punch, especially with the Cascades. The malt is light on the tongue, almost like an American Lager, but the hops dance through unimpeded and there's no nasty, cloying crystal malt "scotch" flavors. The MO contributes noticeable but gentle toastiness and compliments the Cascade pine.

grimstuff said:

Okay, to follow up on this idea... I am currently brewing a "session IPA" using BYO's Pliny the Toddler, with a few tweaks. The hops are VERY dominate. Here's what I brewed:

5.5 gal

3.5 lbs MO
3.5 lbs 2-row
1.0 lb CaraPils
0.5 lb sucrose

0.75 oz Warrior 60 mins (16AA)
0.75 oz Galena 10 mins (12AA)
0.75 oz Cascade 10 mins (6.2AA)
0.75 oz Cascade 0 mins (6.2AA)

Safale US-05

Single-infusion mash @ 152.5 F 60 mins
90 min boil
Actual OG = 1.046
After 5 days fermentation (today) = 1.008 (~5% abv)
IBU estimate = 67

It tastes awesome. It's dry, with only a hint of sweetness, and a strong hop punch, especially with the Cascades. The malt is light on the tongue, almost like an American Lager, but the hops dance through unimpeded and there's no nasty, cloying crystal malt "scotch" flavors. The MO contributes noticeable but gentle toastiness and compliments the Cascade pine.

http://www.imagesocket.com/photos/guest/2524548

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Sold! Now if I only was an AG brewer :-/

grimstuff said:

3.5 lbs MO
3.5 lbs 2-row
1.0 lb CaraPils
0.5 lb sucrose

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Whats going on with the carapils and sucrose? They seem like they are used for the exact oppossite reasons: one for more body, the other for less... couldn't you decrease the carapils and not use the sucrose? Im confused at this combo

brettwasbtd said:

Whats going on with the carapils and sucrose? They seem like they are used for the exact oppossite reasons: one for more body, the other for less... couldn't you decrease the carapils and not use the sucrose? Im confused at this combo

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Here's how it makes sense to me:

CaraPils = body without flavor; contributes to mouthfeel, but not a lot to malt backbone. Head-retention characteristics of crystal.

Sugar = providing alcohol without contributing to backbone. Lighter body, but only because it provides alcohol. More of a gentle balancing act than adding X-amount of sugar to equal X-amount of lightness.

The two things they have in common are contributing to the character of the beer without adding maltiness. I think where it gets confusing is when we think of sucrose and dextrins as being on opposite ends of the same "body" spectrum. Body isn't always easily defineable, at least not to me. I'm not looking for any dominate malt notes with this recipe, so the dextrin malt is great for making a lighter-bodied, but not thin, beer. In its absence you'd use either more 2-row or crystal (more or different flavor) or more sugar (more alcohol, possibly sweetness). And I'm not looking for either a lot of malt flavor (definitely not cloying crystal) or much sweetness or booze.

Vinnie lists Carapils second when relating the simplicity of a DIPA grain bill, and it's used in the actual Pliny recipe, along with sugar. Of course, the proportion of Carapils in this recipe is much higher (11.7%) than it is in the 5-gallon Pliny recipe (4%). So as to the final effect, I'll have to wait and see.

grimstuff said:

Here's how it makes sense to me:

CaraPils = body without flavor; contributes to mouthfeel, but not a lot to malt backbone. Head-retention characteristics of crystal.

Sugar = providing alcohol without contributing to backbone. Lighter body, but only because it provides alcohol. More of a gentle balancing act than adding X-amount of sugar to equal X-amount of lightness.

The two things they have in common are contributing to the character of the beer without adding maltiness. I think where it gets confusing is when we think of sucrose and dextrins as being on opposite ends of the same "body" spectrum. Body isn't always easily defineable, at least not to me. I'm not looking for any dominate malt notes with this recipe, so the dextrin malt is great for making a lighter-bodied, but not thin, beer. In its absence you'd use either more 2-row or crystal (more or different flavor) or more sugar (more alcohol, possibly sweetness). And I'm not looking for either a lot of malt flavor (definitely not cloying crystal) or much sweetness or booze.

Vinnie lists Carapils second when relating the simplicity of a DIPA grain bill, and it's used in the actual Pliny recipe, along with sugar. Of course, the proportion of Carapils in this recipe is much higher (11.7%) than it is in the 5-gallon Pliny recipe (4%). So as to the final effect, I'll have to wait and see.

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I guess I can see where you are coming from. Still not the approach I would use. A low ABV beer like this I would probably be trying to keep the alcohol lower, so the sucrose wouldn't even been on my mind. Also my attempts at something like this are closer to the 4% range so it might be why I wouldnt include the sucrose

brettwasbtd said:

I guess I can see where you are coming from. Still not the approach I would use. A low ABV beer like this I would probably be trying to keep the alcohol lower, so the sucrose wouldn't even been on my mind. Also my attempts at something like this are closer to the 4% range so it might be why I wouldnt include the sucrose

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Maybe I'm just ignorant but I wouldn't think a 4% beer would have any body at all.

BreezyBrew said:

Maybe I'm just ignorant but I wouldn't think a 4% beer would have any body at all.

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A few styles have 4-5% with nice body. Weizen comes to mind first....but then this thread is looking for a 5-6% IIPA, not 4%.

Wheats, some milds, scottish ales. With the right grain bill/yeast attenuation you can make a full flavored beer as low as 3-4%. "Body" in a beer is a delicate dance between residual sweetness and dextrins, carbonation level and IBUs in my mind. General I only think to use sucrose if I wanted to a dry a beer out OR if I making a higher ABV beer and I dont want it to have too much body. Anything under 5% and im not too worried about it having too much body, hence no sucrose

BreezyBrew said:

Can anyone tell me why this isn't a real thing? Personally, I'd love to drink a super hoppy 5.5% beer.

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Are you kidding? Its called a frickin pale ale.

Ughhh...I could use an extract low ABV IPA recipe. Too drunk right now.

buttcord said:

Are you kidding? Its called a frickin pale ale.

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It's not.........

ShinyBuddha said:

It's not.........

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In my mind it would just be an IPA. A double tends to be in the 8% and up range.

buttcord said:

Are you kidding? Its called a frickin pale ale.

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I meant more in mouthfeel and hoppiness rather than abv.

BreezyBrew said:

Personally, I'd love to drink a super hoppy 5.5% beer.

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Maine Beer Company Peeper Ale

/endthread

Blatant Session IPA is one of the hoppiest beers under 5% I have ever tried...its only 3.5%

Just finishing up a 5.7% pale ale right now. 47 IBUs. If you want it hoppy, just skip all hop additions until 20 minutes. Its called hop bursting or late hopping. Also, try using around 20% of a malty type grain such as munich. This one I am doing is 17% munich so it should be nicely balanced

Okay, just did my first tasting of the aforementioned recipe. It's only been bottle conditioning for 11 days but it's perfectly drinkable already. I didn't put them in the fridge, so this is just straight from bottle storage to glass, so it was still quite hazy. I tell you I think the MO and Cascade hobs really complement each other, although I would not have guessed this. It definitely could have used some dry hopping, though. As far as this has to do with a "sessionable DIPA" or whatever, not much, as can be guessed. It is "just" a very solid and interesting IPA. I think the most interesting thing by far here is the unexpected marriage of MO and Cascade aided by a dryer malt profile, definitely worthy of more examination.

UNCHILLED

bighorn_brew said:

Im doing this kinda beer right now. Based very closely on the "bitter american" clone recipe. With a couple mods/subs.

12 gallon batch
14 lbs golden promise
20 oz munich
8 oz crystal 10-20
8 oz crystal 30-40
8 oz crystal 120

1.5 oz g. Magnums 60 mins
2 oz amarillo 20 mins
4 oz simcoe tossed in during last 15 mins every 1 min
Off top of my head og was 1.043ish and ibus 50ish

Split into 2 so4 in one and wy1007 in other, we will see.......

Click to expand...

Let us know how it turns out!