Steeping Specialty Grains Separate from the Mash? (AG)

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IPA4ME

IPA4ME

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I was wondering if anyone steeps there specialty grains (i.e. Crystal Malts) separate from their mash? I am making a 5.5 gallon AG IPA that uses 14.25 pounds of grain. Of the 14.25 pounds of grain, only a ½ pound (8oz) is Crystal 15L.

Since there is no enzyme activity taking place to convert these grain starches to sugars, would I get better utilization/extraction of these sugars if I steeped them separate from the mash?

Right now I batch sparge with 70qt. Coleman Cooler and stainless steel braid and only get about 65% efficiency. For some reason I am thinking that my 8oz of specialty grains are getting lost or better yet, not getting used to their full potential when mashed with 13+ pounds of grain.

Any thoughts on this subject? Any pros or cons of steeping specialty grains separate from mash? Maybe I am just over thinking this subject…
 
I don't, and wouldn't.
Hell, try it...
The grist IMO is meant to mash as one. If your following a recipe and you get + or - utilization from 1 component, you've thrown off the recipe.
 
chrisknight said:
I don't, and wouldn't.
Hell, try it...
The grist IMO is meant to mash as one. If your following a recipe and you get + or - utilization from 1 component, you've thrown off the recipe.
Click to expand...

True, I never really thought about it like that.

The only thing that got me thinking about this is, when I look at the left over wort in the tun, I know there is still some sugar left behind and since the crystal malt is only 4% of the total mash bill, I wonder how much of the crystal is left behind.

I don’t really have time to do two batches side by side for comparison so that’s out of the question.

I am just going to continue to mash all my grains together for now.
 
If you want to get more utilization out of your grain, you might want to try mashing longer or grinding at a tighter setting.
 
Kahuna said:
If you want to get more utilization out of your grain, you might want to try mashing longer or grinding at a tighter setting.
Click to expand...

It wasn't about getting better utilization as a whole, it was more about making sure I was actually picking up all of the sugars from the 8oz of specialty grains.

Thanks for the tips though. I recently bought a mill so I will be crushing my own grains starting this weekend. I also plan on buliding a manifold for my tun.
 
If you want to get any sugar from the Crystal, it has to go into the mash. It has no diastatic power left, due to the way it is made. Mashing will get all the colour and flavor out of them too. Of course, in half a pound of grain, the fermentables are only going to be 5 % or so of your total. How badly do you want those 12 or so points?

If you steep, all you will get is the color and flavor: no fermentables.

Note also that the liquor left in the mash tun is going to be a small percentage of the overall wort you collected. If you sparged well, then there will not be very much sugar or color left in it. [If you oversparge, you can start extracting bitter flavours anyway.] So don't worry about "losing" your color that way. If you steep, some color will still be with the grains, and so then you'll still have to sparge them anyway.

On balance, just throwing them in one big mash seems simplest. If you are worried that your beer is going to be too pale, then just add more crystal!



ETA - your recipe is based on the overall % efficiency you get. So if you have 70% brewhouse efficiency, that is going to be for the crystal and the base malt. Mashing them together means you are going to get the same % of each in the final wort. Steeping separately means you might unbalance your carefully constructed recipe...
 
BioBeing said:
If you want to get any sugar from the Crystal, it has to go into the mash. It has no diastatic power left, due to the way it is made. Mashing will get all the colour and flavor out of them too. Of course, in half a pound of grain, the fermentables are only going to be 5 % or so of your total. How badly do you want those 12 or so points?

If you steep, all you will get is the color and flavor: no fermentables.

Note also that the liquor left in the mash tun is going to be a small percentage of the overall wort you collected. If you sparged well, then there will not be very much sugar or color left in it. [If you oversparge, you can start extracting bitter flavours anyway.] So don't worry about "losing" your color that way. If you steep, some color will still be with the grains, and so then you'll still have to sparge them anyway.

On balance, just throwing them in one big mash seems simplest. If you are worried that your beer is going to be too pale, then just add more crystal!



ETA - your recipe is based on the overall % efficiency you get. So if you have 70% brewhouse efficiency, that is going to be for the crystal and the base malt. Mashing them together means you are going to get the same % of each in the final wort. Steeping separately means you might unbalance your carefully constructed recipe...
Click to expand...


That makes sense. I think I was just over thinking this whole process.

Thanks!
 
my opinion is it doesn't matter crystal doesn't have to be mashed but its more convenient to throw it in the mash. You'll be fine either way
 
What if in designing a recipe you're at the upper limit of your acceptable OG and FG, but still short a significant number of SRM?

Doesn't it make sense to, say, decide to steep some of the higher-L malt so as _not_ to get fermentable sugar -- and maybe even to steep a few more ounces of some Midnight or something in there, just to bump up the color a few more points without affecting fermentables and mouthfeel?

Or: I could see doing the processes separately to really fine-tune attributes of a brew.

Does this stand to reason?
 
IPA4ME said:
I was wondering if anyone steeps there specialty grains (i.e. Crystal Malts) separate from their mash? I am making a 5.5 gallon AG IPA that uses 14.25 pounds of grain. Of the 14.25 pounds of grain, only a ½ pound (8oz) is Crystal 15L.

Since there is no enzyme activity taking place to convert these grain starches to sugars, would I get better utilization/extraction of these sugars if I steeped them separate from the mash?

Right now I batch sparge with 70qt. Coleman Cooler and stainless steel braid and only get about 65% efficiency. For some reason I am thinking that my 8oz of specialty grains are getting lost or better yet, not getting used to their full potential when mashed with 13+ pounds of grain.

Any thoughts on this subject? Any pros or cons of steeping specialty grains separate from mash? Maybe I am just over thinking this subject…
Click to expand...

I steep seperately. I listened to a presentation by Gordon Strong that supports keeping them seperate. It was a great presentation and since we don't have the constraints of the big guys we can do it. You're after color and flavor...he equates it to making tea and compares it to over steeping your tea...harsher flavors basically.
 
You can steep Dark grains and crystal separate. No real disadvantage mashing crystal so I just mash them. In Gordon Strong's book "Brewing Better Beer" he says there is no real disadvantage to mashing crystal. However mashing darker grains like roasted barley, chocolate malt and black patent malt can lead to increased bitterness, acidity and harshness.

So PROS to steeping CRYSTAL.....I really cant think of any that out weight cons. CONS.....Extra Time and effort.
 
helibrewer said:
I steep seperately. I listened to a presentation by Gordon Strong that supports keeping them seperate. It was a great presentation and since we don't have the constraints of the big guys we can do it. You're after color and flavor...he equates it to making tea and compares it to over steeping your tea...harsher flavors basically.
Click to expand...

I heard the same comments from Gordon Strong. It was in an interview done by Brad Smith of BeerSmith. Here is a link to the interview.

Gordon recommends steeping the grains so as to avoid some of the bitterness from some specialty grains.

Mark
 

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