2014: A year of German beers!

Whippy said:

I think I'd like to copy you, john.

Here's my schedule:

Jan: Dunkel
Feb: Dunkel
Mar: Dunkel
Apr: Dunkel
May: ... oh, you get the point

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Lol!! And a dunkel is really a cheap beer to brew. Buy one pkg of yeast, jus keep washing it. Buy munich II malt in bulk (150 lbs for 12 batches and 4 lbs of Carafa 2 for 12 batches in a year). Low hop bill! Excellent idea!

Maybe 6 10 gallon batches in a year? Nail the water profile and perfect the decoction mash... Perfect

My caveat is that I am not very experienced in brewing German beers, but I feel that the water along with the decoction is the key to making them great. Kidding from my former post aside, I do intend to also have a year of German brewing, being proud of my heritage as well My grain run usually coincides with Daytona 500 weekend, so it's a little early for me to start planning. I do know that the Dunkel will feature strongly, though lol ..love that beer!

So, planning these first two brews, I will be doing a decoction mash. Is there any reason, at all, to dough in at 127 deg. Arent all modern malts fully modified? And with no adjuncts, why can I dough in at 149, rest, pull a decoction, raise to 162, then boil and return to raise the whole mash to 162. Rest, then mash out?

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Decoction_Mashing

This is a great resource for German brewing and decoctions. A protein rest is not needed with modern malts unless using a lot of wheat or other high protein grains (probably not even then).

Thanks mlakota! That was a great read!

I jus doughed-in my Eishbock grain at 122. Let the decoction begin! Its pretty clear im going to change/alter my mash tun/HLT setup to do decoctions without losin it!

Im deciocting in my boil keg, and the learning curve for temp control is high!

Lessons learned on the decoction:

My goal was to dough in at 122, rest for 30, then pull 40% grist for the first decoction
Raise to 147 for 20 min, raise to 156 for 20 min, boil and return to raise the whole mash to 147.
Pull the second decoction of 40%, raise it to 156 for 20 min, boil it and return to raise it all to 156. Then mash out.

Well, the whole first decoction went as planned, then when I return it, I hit about 132!?! Had to pull 2 gallons of grist off and drain off 2 more gallons and boil each and put them back in.
Then the second decoction, I pulled 66%, and before I returned it after the boil, I drained off 2 gallons from the mash tun, and added all back in. I hit 157 no problem!!

Time to vorlauf!

Final verdict:

I jus transferred 4.5 gallons into the primary with a F.G. Of 1.102!!! If this ferments out to the estimated F.G. of 1.022, it has a potential of 10.3% ABV BEFORE freeze concentration!!! I couldnt be happier!

Despite the tornados that moved thrpugh central Illinois on Sunday, I started brewing my Munich Dunkel at about 6 pm. The decoction process went much more smoothly the second time. Because I cant heat the mash in my cooler, I have found that pulling 50-60% of the grist for the decoction and then when going from my final step of 156 to boiling, pulling 1-2 gallons of wort and adding it to the grist and boiling it too, allows me to raise the whole mash to the next step. This is especially required when raising the mash temp from 122 to 147, and less so when going from 147 to 156.
Also, I need to set up a prechiller arrangement to drop the wort to lager temps of 48 so I can pitch the yeast quicker. Right now my immersion chiller can get the wort to 70, but then I have to put it in the temp controlled freezer to get it to 48.
In the past my all grain beers with a single infusion mash take 5 hours. 2 decoction mash, 8 hours total.
Both the Eisbock and Munich Dunkel have airlock activity with 12 hours of pitching yeast.

With the Eisbock and Dunkel happily bubbling away, time to get some education!

Ahhh what are you flying?? FSX is my "other" hobby!

This week I ordered the Bock, Munich Helles, and Pils books from this series and await them in the post with great anticipation! This Kölsch book is certainly on my list to acquire as well; I'll be interested to hear what you think of it.

Whippy said:

Ahhh what are you flying?? FSX is my "other" hobby!

This week I ordered the Bock, Munich Helles, and Pils books from this series and await them in the post with great anticipation! This Kölsch book is certainly on my list to acquire as well; I'll be interested to hear what you think of it.

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Boeing 717. Guess Im busted lol As for the books, I read Prost! and the Bock book, felt they were really insightful. Jus finished the Kolsch book and it answered alot of questions I didnt even know I had yet! Anyway, the greatest things Im getting from the be series books is history and mashing/brewing techniques. Starting with my Kolsch beer, I want to start learning how to adjust my water chemistry. Suggestions anyone??

One week into the fermentations of the Eisbock and Munich Dunkel, I have raised temp in the chamber from 48 to 50, airlocks bubbling nicely. I finished the Kolsch book, and stopped by my LHBS. The recipe is 9.5 lb German Pilsner 2 row and 1.5 lb German Wheat. Wyeast Kolsch 2565 and Hallertau for hops (gonna calc that now for 60 min and 20 min additions with a goal of 22 IBU). I do plan to attempt to work with my water on this brew to simulate Cologne Germany water. Time to do some more reading. Target brew date is approx 12/21/13.

After a week of fermentation at 50, the Eisbock is still goin strong and the Munich Dunkel has almost come to a stop. No idea of gravities yet. I have just raised the temp to 52 for this next week to finish them off. Planning a 2 day diacetyl rest at 64 before racking to secondary.

I would make sure to have each of the beers ready for the correct time of year, ie: have the Oktoberfest ready by the end of September (Oktoberfest starts in September dammit, will people please stop celebrating it in mid-October here???). A lot of German beers require extended aging times (other than Hefeweizen).

I need to start planning farther in advance because of this (wanted to do a Schwarzbier for the winter, but that ship has sailed).

You would have to start brewing in 2013 to have it ready ahead of time, but I would do this:

Jan - Rauchbier
Feb - Weizenbock
Mar - Alt
Apr - Kellerbier
May - Pilsner
Jun - Helles
Jul - Kolsch
Aug - Hefeweizen
Sep - Oktoberfest
Oct - Schwarzbier
Nov - Urbock
Dec - Doppelbock

EDIT: I'm an idiot, thought this was a new thread. Sorry!

No worries! Yeah, thats the plan. To plan the brews. My Eisbock will be young and green when I taste it in January, my munich Dunkel starts lagering in a week, so I should be pretty much "on schedule" by then. Can you tell me more about a Kellerbier?

johnpcook1 said:

No worries! Yeah, thats the plan. To plan the brews. My Eisbock will be young and green when I taste it in January, my munich Dunkel starts lagering in a week, so I should be pretty much "on schedule" by then. Can you tell me more about a Kellerbier?

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Or an Urbock?

http://ozapfthomebrew.com/

You might want to enter this competition. It’s all German with some styles that are not listed by the BJCP. Entries late August, judging in September, Awards early October in Ft. Worth.

Thanks for the heads up!

johnpcook1 said:

Or an Urbock?

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Kellerbier is somewhere between a Helles and a Bock, normally unfiltered (which more homebrew is anyways, but this means you would disturb some of the yeast on purpose when bottling/kegging). Should be served warmer than most beers and with low carbonation levels.

(original explanation said between a Helles and a Maerzen, but that was a brain fart)

Urbock is... complicated. Some places call their Helles Bock Urbock, some call their Dunkelbock Urbock. I was thinking along the lines of Aecht Schlenkerla Urbock, which is their darker beer. Very smokey, smells almost like bacon.

Good luck! I would love to do this, but I am still working out my recipes (though my Helles that just finished is probably the best beer I have ever made! which isn't saying all that much, but still!)

gometz said:

Kellerbier is somewhere between a Helles and a Bock, normally unfiltered (which more homebrew is anyways, but this means you would disturb some of the yeast on purpose when bottling/kegging). Should be served warmer than most beers and with low carbonation levels.

(original explanation said between a Helles and a Maerzen, but that was a brain fart)

Urbock is... complicated. Some places call their Helles Bock Urbock, some call their Dunkelbock Urbock. I was thinking along the lines of Aecht Schlenkerla Urbock, which is their darker beer. Very smokey, smells almost like bacon.

Good luck! I would love to do this, but I am still working out my recipes (though my Helles that just finished is probably the best beer I have ever made! which isn't saying all that much, but still!)

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May I look at your Helles recipe? I built my Kolsch recipe off of another HBTalk members recipe..

johnpcook1 said:

May I look at your Helles recipe? I built my Kolsch recipe off of another HBTalk members recipe..

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It's a simple single infusion and I only used Tettnang hops because I wanted to copy the beer my grandfather used to make (he and his father were both brewers and when I worked at the brewery I found out they only used Tettnang). I will look it up when I get home.

Josef's Helles
Batch size: 5.5 Gallons
OG: 1.052
ABV: 4.85%
Yeast: WLP838
Boil Time: 90 minutes
IBU: ~20

Grain Bill:
10 lb German Pilsner (93.6%)
6 oz Melanoidin (3.5%)
5 oz Acidulated Malt (2.9%)

Mash thickness: 1.6 qt/lb
Mash temperature 152*F
Mash Time: 1 hour

Hop schedule:
0.75 oz Tettnang First Wort
0.75 oz Tettnang 60 minutes
0.5 oz Tettnang 2 minutes

Primary: 10 days @ 50*F
Diacetyl Rest: 3 days @ 60*F
Secondary: 5 weeks @ 30-35*F
Condition in bottles for 4 weeks at room temperature

Notes:
- Use distilled water and add 1/2 tsp Calcium Chloride per 5 gallons
- May want to reduce grains to make it a little less sweet (or mash temperature)

gometz said:

Josef's Helles
Batch size: 5.5 Gallons
OG: 1.052
ABV: 4.85%
Yeast: WLP838
Boil Time: 90 minutes
IBU: ~20

Grain Bill:
10 lb German Pilsner (93.6%)
6 oz Melanoidin (3.5%)
5 oz Acidulated Malt (2.9%)

Mash thickness: 1.6 qt/lb
Mash temperature 152*F
Mash Time: 1 hour

Hop schedule:
0.75 oz Tettnang First Wort
0.75 oz Tettnang 60 minutes
0.5 oz Tettnang 2 minutes

Primary: 10 days @ 50*F
Diacetyl Rest: 3 days @ 60*F
Secondary: 5 weeks @ 30-35*F
Condition in bottles for 4 weeks at room temperature

Notes:
- Use distilled water and add 1/2 tsp Calcium Chloride per 5 gallons
- May want to reduce grains to make it a little less sweet (or mash temperature)

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Im impressed! I like what Im already seeing in this recipe, ie german malts, yeast and hops.

Forgot to mention my starter had like 600B cells.

At 18 days, my Eisbock is still bubbling away. I jus bumped up the temp to 54 and interestingly enough, my ferm chamber doesnt have the sulfur smell that I experienced with my other lagers.

At 21 days, I still have bubbler activity on my Eisbock. Gravity of 1.044. So Im looking for it to drop another 20 pts at least and for my Dunkel to drop another 5 pts. Ive raised the temp to 56 and will check it in a week. Samples tasted great!! Malty, clean and fresh!!

Anyone have any good ideas how to revive the fermentation? It is still going, but at his rate, it might be a month before it gets done.

johnpcook1 said:

At 26 days, I still have bubbler activity on my Eisbock. Gravity of 1.044. So Im looking for it to drop another 20 pts at least and for my Dunkel to drop another 5 pts. Ive raised the temp to 56 and will check it in a week. Samples tasted great!! Malty, clean and fresh!!

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Edited

John,

I'm perhaps not the best to give advice. I'm waiting to build a chilled conical system for doing lagers because they do take a long time to finish in my limited experience (I've brewed 6 batches total). My most anticipated lager is still lagering. It was a dopplebock starting at 1.101, and it took more than twice as long to finish as I expected.
Tincture of time is the best remedy. Mine has 9 weeks of lagering left according to the weeks per point Plato rule.
Without going back to look, what was your OG for this one?? I think my dopplebock ended up just under 1.020 without consulting my notes ( maybe it was 1.030..).
In the future, in order to ensure healthy yeast, rather than mail order liquid, I'm going to buy through either yeastman and do overnight shipping, or else just use dry yeast. I suspect my yeast viability was poor.

Good luck and carry on!

TD

My OG for the Eisbock was 1.102 and shud finish around 1.022. So I have about 20 pts to go and it is bubbling as we speak. Looking at my notes, it was a Wyeast 2124 Bohemian lager mfg date of 20Feb13 when I made a 2 qt starter on a stir plate with 1.040 wort on 11/3/13. I then cold crashed that starter, and made a 3 1/2 qt 1.060 starter on 11/13. Cold crashed and pitched the slurry on 11/18. Maybe jus not enough healthy cells?? I also wonder if the ferm schedule I use is the best. 7 days each at 48/50/52. It certainly prevents throwing lots of phenolics or off flavors, but I wonder if being a lil bit warmer in the beginning would give a more aggressive fermentation?

johnpcook1 said:

My OG for the Eisbock was 1.102 and shud finish around 1.022. So I have about 20 pts to go and it is bubbling as we speak. Looking at my notes, it was a Wyeast 2124 Bohemian lager mfg date of 20Feb13 when I made a 2 qt starter on a stir plate with 1.040 wort on 11/3/13. I then cold crashed that starter, and made a 3 1/2 qt 1.060 starter on 11/13. Cold crashed and pitched the slurry on 11/18. Maybe jus not enough healthy cells?? I also wonder if the ferm schedule I use is the best. 7 days each at 48/50/52. It certainly prevents throwing lots of phenolics or off flavors, but I wonder if being a lil bit warmer in the beginning would give a more aggressive fermentation?

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John,

I'd let it go without any temp changes and see where it ends up after several more weeks. Without consulting my notes, I'd say my temps were close to where you are at. OGs were similar. I bought I think 4 vials of WLP 838 and made a 5 L starter and brewed a Helles, then re pitched entire yeast for a Oktoberfest, and then racked my dopplebock chilled wort into the conical. I know this was lazy of me, but I made sure I pitched enough yeast! I oxygenated only once, instead of a second dose at 12-24 hours. In spite of the huge amount of yeast, it took about 2 months to get to FG per the rudimentary FFT I did. I'd be patient. I followed a similar ferm temp, pitched at 48 I think it was and bumped to 50 after two weeks. I think mine is sitting at 1.020 now...

In retrospect starting with a huge OG beer, while timing wise is probably accurate, but pitching wise you've setup for a long primary ferment. I'm sure it'll come out great, but just give it some time.

While I was waiting on the temp controlled ferm space my dopplebock was holding up, I brewed a nice brown ale from a recipe on the forum ( beirmuncher Aberdeen brown ale), and had to let it ferment at 72, but it turned out great anyway. That was part of the inspiration to dive into a conical project for doing more lager beers. I'm not planning to brew another lager until the project is done. Blocks up the pipeline.

TD

Sorry its been 6 weeks on an update.

My Eisbock is still in the primary, still bubbling away. It was brewed mid November, and stalled out 20 points too high and has been workin its way down since. Although its been exposed to temps from 40 deg sitting on the concrete floor to 60 in a ferm chamber, its almost done. Should transfer to secondary this weekend to begin lagering then freeze concentration. This is already at 10.3% Abv and tastes amazing!!

The Munich Dunkel took a bit to get down to FG too, but its been lagering for 2 weeks.

Both of those were triple decoctions.

Lessons learned from these 2 big beers?? Add some yeast energizer and nutrient and I will be adding oxygen in the future.

I brewed a 5 gallon batch of Kölsch a month ago. Single infusion mash at 150. Fermed at 65 for 7 days, 68 for 7 days. Its been lagering 2 weeks. Down to 1.005, its already crisp but really light in flavor.

Then I brewed a half batch of Kölsch a week ago. Did a step infusion mash with rests on the stove at 122/147/156/169 and then a sparge. Used my washed yeast. Fermed at 55 for 7 days, meant to do 60. Should be 60 for the next week.

I picked up my Alt recipe a few days ago and am looking fir a good Maibock recipe. Anyone have one they wud like to share??

And another question:

How long should a lager, lager? My Kolsch and Alt will lager for 4 weeks. Ive heard bocks should lager for 2 months, and specialty bocks ups to 6 months. Recipe guidelines rarely say how long to lager :/

The rule I've always heard is 1 week for every 10 points of gravity.

1.060 for 6 weeks
1.070 for 7 weeks
etc.

These are minimums though, let em go as long as you can stand especially on bigger lagers.

My Kolsch came out great after only 3 weeks of cold lager (35), but if you're not in a hurry, don't worry about it.

48 hours ago I racked my Kölsch to a keg. A first for me. After 24 hours at 40 psi, I dropped the pressure to 4 psi and I began to drink it with my gf. This is amazing!!! Light! Slightly malty! Very drinkable!! Although I didnt have any rod glasses, it tasted great coming from a 20 oz pilsner. My March beer is ahead of schedule.


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And heres a pic...


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johnpcook1 said:

48 hours ago I racked my Kölsch to a keg. A first for me. After 24 hours at 40 psi, I dropped the pressure to 4 psi and I began to drink it with my gf. This is amazing!!! Light! Slightly malty! Very drinkable!! Although I didnt have any rod glasses, it tasted great coming from a 20 oz pilsner. My March beer is ahead of schedule.


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how did your final recipe turn out (incl fermentation temp process etc)? thanks for keeping your thread rolling!

7 lbs german pilsner 2 row
12 oz german wheat malt
1.0 oz Hallertau 45 min
1.0 oz Hallertau 10 min
Wyeast 2565 Kolsch

90 min temp infusion mash at 148
4.9 ph
SG 1.040
Ferm 7 days at 65, 7 days at 68
FG 1.005
Racked to secondary, set to lager at 38 deg
Lagered for 4 weeks, and racked to the keg

I had originally planned a 2 step decoction mash, but had too much going on that day so I decided to do jus a single step infusion. Soon after this batch, I did a half batch of Kolsch and did a step infusion mash on the burner. That will be a lil bit more authentic and Im looking forward to how it turns out. Its lagering right now.


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