Different kind of mashing......???

So i am sitting here bored to death in accounting, in class, and decided to work on my barley wine recipe. I realized the limits of my system and decided that for what i want i will need to use extract. Then i began to think about something i had read in radical brewing about doing one mash and then using the runnings for a second mash of all new grain. Then i began to think of the following question:
Can you/would you want to mash with extract. Meaning take your strike water to temp, add extract and then add it to the MT for mashing?
I couldn't find anything on the subject but any ideas, experiences or if you think im bat-**** crazy let me know.
CHeers

I don't see how mashing with extract is better than just adding extract during the boil. The sugar concentration of the wort will even out with the concentration in the grain. So mashing in with wort as strike liquor will get a little bit of extra gravity out of the grain, but your efficiency will probably be awful.

Seems like un-mashing to me. Generally you're trying to extract sugars from grain...adding extract back to the grain seems like a waste.

I cannot possibly think of any reason why you would want to. You would likely end up with less fermentables from the extract than you originally had due to absorbtion in the grain. If you mash with water and draw off the wort, you are getting maximum extraction for your system and process... Then if you mix that with extract you will get a net result. You cannot get more out extract than it already possesses and you will not increase any efficiency from mashing with it as all of its enzymes have been denatured.

That is a question/method I've never thought of /seen before! I can't think of a reason not to, but if I were you, I'd probably do your "partial mash" ie a regular mash to get the majority of your fermentables and then add extract to get your gravity where you need it during the boil. By doing this you would just be doing a big partial mash beer. On the other hand brewing is all about experimentation so you could go for it and as long as your methods are sound I'm sure it will come out great! Good luck and let us know what happens!
Cheers
JP

Ok then i wont try this... on a large scale... maybe some test mashes. I was just thinking. The idea, like i said, came from radical brewing's process where you mash one portion of your grain, drain, and use that to mash a second portion of grain to raise the gravity. Then again i read that many beers ago so i could be wrong.

noodle23 said:

...The idea, like i said, came from radical brewing's process where you mash one portion of your grain, drain, and use that to mash a second portion of grain to raise the gravity. Then again i read that many beers ago so i could be wrong.

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You're right, that's definitely a method.

If you add extract to the mash, the grain will absorb some of the extract and you'll lose some of it. Better to add it afterward where 100% of it ends up in your beer.

noodle23 said:

Ok then i wont try this... on a large scale... maybe some test mashes. I was just thinking. The idea, like i said, came from radical brewing's process where you mash one portion of your grain, drain, and use that to mash a second portion of grain to raise the gravity. Then again i read that many beers ago so i could be wrong.

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You could do that if you don't have any extract or don't want to depart from a specific set of grains or don't want to use extract at all. But if you have extract and are willing to use it, there is really no need to.

Watch the PH. You could get out of range with extract and then not extract the fermentables. I too can see no purpose in it. You can only lose sugars in the grain. You want high gravity, buy extra grain instead or use just the first running with no sparge.

TyTanium said:

You're right, that's definitely a method...look up parti-gyle.

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I could be wrong, but my understanding of parti-gyle is just using the SAME mash for a second runnings beer. For example, start with a Belgian Strong for the first runnings, add more water and maybe a few more grains, and then have a second runnings of say a table beer. But what the OP is proposing is to reverse that by taking the first runnings and using the first runnings to mash a new grist.

BigB said:

I could be wrong, but my understanding of parti-gyle is just using the SAME mash for a second runnings beer.

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You're definitely right. Guess I didn't read what he wrote, haha. My mistake. Edited post to correct. Thanks.

I admit that sometimes I add cream to them when, after mashing, I convert the potato into a puree with a hand-held electric blender. Yummy The next step is presentation, which you neglect to mention. On the dinner plate, if served as such, upon a white cone of potato I add on top half a pickled walnut. These are jet black and have a striking flavor contrast to the potato. If the mashed potato is served in a large bowl at a dinner party I use a surrounding ring of pickled walnuts (which go well with roast meats) to provide a culinary sight worthy of a king. Regards Allan Taylor..

^^^Did I miss something?

I see no point in adding extract to a mash. Just add it to a kettle.

That being said, I have do a sequential mash where I used the wort from a mash as the liquid for a second set of grain. I made the first mash a bit thick and drained that and did a small sparge, and then used the combined runoff to mash in a new batch of grain. It worked quite well. One benefit of this method is you don't need as much water so you dontend up with 9 gal of wort for a 5 gal batch