Easy Stovetop All-Grain Brewing (with pics)

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No, I sometimes mash for several hours. All it means is that you'll get great efficiency...although you don't want to lose TOO MUCH heat. I figure as long as it doesn't fall below 140°F in the time it takes me to go out for dinner and drinks, then I'm fine :D

A long sparge COULD extract tannins, as it could leave the temperature too high for too long. Temperature is more important, tho. Once you've killed those enzymes (at about 162°F) there is no more conversion taking place and if you go much further above that (the consensus is 170°F, tops) for a long period, then there could be a problem. Think of it like leaving your tea bag in the hot water for too long and it becomes astringent.

I did a SMaSH recently that tastes somewhat astringent and the only thing I can think of was that it had a long, hot sparge. That being said, I wouldn't worry about it much...just err on the side of caution.

How was your efficiency? :)
 
DeathBrewer said:
Good point. Perhaps I should do a "mashing" FAQ and use that as one pointed section of my all encompassing tutorial.
:mug:
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I don't know if you want to, but you could call it "Brew in a Bag", however I think your forum attracts people that have never heard of "BIAB", or else they would be in a BIAB forum. I think the words Easy and Mashing/all grain is what attracted people to the forum, there are plenty of BIAB forums if you know what you are looking for. For me, I never heard of BIAB before I saw the partial mash forum.

Also, I suggest you take all the good questions people asked in the later pages, and put a short Q and A on the first post. How many times have you answered the same questions?
 
kaastel said:
First of all, when I read this first I thought, "No way is it this simple. If it's this easy, why is there such a big deal about going all grain?!" Honestly, my incredulity kept me from doing it more than my fear. I just tried it last night and it went great, as expected.

My primary question has to do with mash and sparge length. Is there a problem with mashing for longer than 60 minutes? How about a longer sparge? Will these increase efficiency or, perhaps, extract tannins or other Bad Things? I (inadvertently) mashed for 90 minutes and sparged from 20 minutes last night. I'm not too worried, more curious for the future. Thanks!
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At no point is doing this method hard. Perhaps grasping it is confusing a little. I had a friend who didn't understand ANYTHING about mashing. I brought him over to watch while I do this method and he may not know much more about mash pH, but he knows it is easy enough for him to start getting into all grain. That is the beauty of this method, once you do it, you start to gain the understanding on your own. At this point, I have enough confidence that I could build a proper mash tun if necessary (although it isnt because this method works like a charm)

As for your sparging and mash length question, people mash for up and sometimes over 90 minutes. I know people that do partigyles that let the grains mash for 24 hours after the first one. At that point you will have a little bit of sourness from the tannins extracted, but there are sour beers. Most of the conversion in the mash gets done in the first 15 minutes. The length after that can effect the beer characteristics, but most of the sugar you get is done within 15 minutes. Mashing longer just gets those few extra extraction efficiency points. As for the sparge, this is up to however you find works best. A longer/hotter sparge has the potential to extract tannins, but I don't think changing it from 10 to 20 minutes will be much of a difference. I sparged 20 minutes when I did my first wort hop addition and it was fine. If you are fine with your mash, you could not sparge at all, or just dip and dunk shortly.
 
Is there any reason why this method wouldn't be appropriate for a german style weizen?
I've read bits about stuck sparges, etc, but that shouldnt matter with a bag.
 
bnmir said:
Is there any reason why this method wouldn't be appropriate for a german style weizen?
I've read bits about stuck sparges, etc, but that shouldnt matter with a bag.
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I don't see what about a german weizen would make a sparge stuck more than a pale ale or something else. Usually mushy things like pumpkin can cause a stuck sparge, or milling your grain too fine. You have nothing to worry about with the bag, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a stuck sparge. The beauty with this is you can mill your grain as fine as the bag can handle, which will give you better efficiency without having to worry about stuck sparges. Usually at the LHB store they mill assuming you are mashing the traditional way, so they don't mill to fine. You can let them know to mill the crap out of it, just make sure it doesn't fall through your bag (You can always get a finer mesh).

Back to the weizen though, some beer styles like a pilsner require some sort of step mashing technique. This requires a little practice to hit your temps correctly, but stepping isn't usually required for beers. Pilsners are a little bit of an exception because of the large quantity of base malt. It all depends on the malt...a weizen sounds pretty good. I'll be doing my fair share once the weather lightens up a little, I do dunkels in the colder months.
 
Weizens use a lot of wheat which does not have a husk. Thus when using a large percentage of wheat there may not be enough husk material to form an adequate filter bed. That is why you will see a lot of people use rice hulls when using wheat or rye. When doing this or any other brew in a bag method there is no reason to worry.

As for mash times. I mash for 90 minutes minimum no matter what beer.
 
6 lbs Wheat Malt
3 lbs Pilsner Malt
2 ounces Aromatic Malt

Mash at 150°F

Use about 0.75 ounces of hallertau, tettnanger or saaz for a 90 minute boil (check your IBUs based on the Alpha Acid content)

Pitch WLP300
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That is the recipe I'm making tomorrow (well, kinda...I'm using FWH, too) and it is something that will work perfectly with a bag. Weizens are one of the best beers to brew using this method and one of my favorites in general.
:mug:
 
sp1365 said:
Weizens use a lot of wheat which does not have a husk. Thus when using a large percentage of wheat there may not be enough husk material to form an adequate filter bed. That is why you will see a lot of people use rice hulls when using wheat or rye. When doing this or any other brew in a bag method there is no reason to worry.

As for mash times. I mash for 90 minutes minimum no matter what beer.
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True, as goes with any de-husked grain. Another tip to prevent the stuck sparge is to use oats. Unlike the rice hulls, you'll get a little bit of conversion out of them, and I enjoy the character they give to the beer
 
DeathBrewer said:
That is the recipe I'm making tomorrow (well, kinda...I'm using FWH, too) and it is something that will work perfectly with a bag. Weizens are one of the best beers to brew using this method and one of my favorites in general.
:mug:
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What are you doing for FWH addition? I just put mine in the sparge kettle (which is what I was boiling in) underneath the bag. I hear people like to mash with them as well. What is your plan of attack?
 
I'm using my cooler, so I get a longer period of FWH with the first runnings. I suppose with a bag you could just add the FWH to your mash water near the end of your mash so it sits long enough to extract some flavor. I've done that before, and it does work.

NOTE: I do not usually boil my FWH...they are mainly for flavor and the hops themselves do not get boiled, just the compounds they leave behind.

Mash hops work just as well, however, and I've found hefeweizens actually taste more like the german commercial styles when using FWH or Mash Hops.

Doh! Just gave up the goose :D
 
DeathBrewer said:
This sounds odd to me. Oats don't have husks, either.
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You can get oat hulls. The hull isn't fermentable, but I think it helps the thickness of the head.

Like I said, I have no need for the hulls with BIAB, but I think John Palmer mentions it in the bible he made called "How to Brew". I do like to throw oats in with a good amount of my brews though.
 
agenthucky said:
You are getting people into it by starting small and simple.
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QFT

Just wanted to thank you for putting this tutorial together as well. Just got back into brewing after about 8 years off (and only a handful of extract batches back then). I picked up a couple pre-hopped extract kits with my new equipment set up, just to ge the ball rolling & I gotta say doing a pre-hopped kit is about the least satisfying experience there is... Sure there's beer fermenting in my primaries now, but there just wasn't any chance to really be a part of it.
Since I wanted to get into the hobbie & really set aside brewdays to fully get into what I was doing I thought AG was the logical way to go (for me) but it was seeming VERY intimidating and expensive in most of the looking I've done - until I came across this thread. So thanks - even two years later, you got someone else to at least give AG a whirl. My next batch I'll be adapting your walk through with the Gas burner I already have for my setup & giving AG a try :mug:
 
I looked all over the AG and Partial Mash forum for this thread the other day after I ordered ingredients for my first AG and then realized I have never AG brewed and probably didn't have the equipment. I forgot it was in the Beginner's Brewing forum, and thought it had been deleted or something. I need to bookmark it or HBT needs to sticky it.

Thanks, Deathbrewer, for using simple terms that Extract brewers can comprehend. I'm not sure if brew day is going to be this Saturday or the next one, but I am going for it without the extract this time.
 
kaastel said:
It was about 82%- I had a lot of boil loss, too, it seemed like. Thanks for the advice!
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Did you measure your efficiency after the boil? If so that wouldn't be accurate, efficiency is taken pre-boil, before any loss of water. 82% for this method is really good.
 
That's incorrect there, hucky...efficiency can be measured at any stage after the run-off...you just need to account for the volume ;)

EDIT: I can't fvcking wait to brew tonight. Got a hefeweizen going and gonna by some commercial examples for inspiration :D
 
DeathBrewer said:
That's incorrect there, hucky...efficiency can be measured at any stage after the run-off...you just need to account for the volume ;)
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But did he? That was my quesiton. 82% seems pretty good. He mentioned a large boil off, so I was curious. If he hit that I would love to know the details. I could save a few bucks a batch.

I brewed 2 gallons of a Belgian Dubble IPA on Tuesday and I got the worst efficiency so far with this, 65%. I account it to the large headspace, I only have a 5, 5.5, and 1.5 gallon kettle, and the temp went from 155F to 145F in an hour. Now that I think about it, the temp loss was most likely from stirring it. I stirred maybe 2 or 3 times over the hour, and each time that headspace goes almost back to room temp. I wonder if I would of had better efficiency if I didn't stirr at all and kept a better temp. I guess it is more of just a Belgian IPA now, I didn't feel like boiling anymore off. Usually I don'lt loose more than 1-2F with 5 gallons.

DeathBrewer said:
EDIT: I can't fvcking wait to brew tonight. Got a hefeweizen going and gonna by some commercial examples for inspiration :D
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Oh I love to do that! Just did it yesterday with my simcoe ipa and my amber with stone levitation (great beer btw). And I couldn't find a commercial cream ale for the life of me. But I went to a local GoodWill store and found some long 5 and 6 strait wooden candle holders (yankee candle kind) and went to the next isle to grab a bunch of small glasses and had a little tasting with a friend. Good fun.

And the dead guy that I did to first try this method is almost ready. Got me some dead guys in the fridge!
 
agenthucky said:
Hmm, a contender for the joy of putting your nose right on your airlock during fermentation....I love brewing...
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Dang, I thought that I was the only one! SWMBO asked through the door of my manroom, "Are you on the floor looking at your beer, again?" She knows me so well, I like to see approximately how many bubbles a minute I am at, so I can plan the next step.

Is this too much? I always toast the fermenter as soon as the yeast gets pitched.
 
Stuntmantoo said:
Dang, I thought that I was the only one! SWMBO asked through the door of my manroom, "Are you on the floor looking at your beer, again?" She knows me so well, I like to see approximately how many bubbles a minute I am at, so I can plan the next step.

Is this too much? I always toast the fermenter as soon as the yeast gets pitched.
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Indeed, it quickly becomes an obsession! I do love it.

and I just tested my first batch of beer using this method, a dead guy clone....mmmmmmmm.
 
Stuntmantoo said:
Dang, I thought that I was the only one! SWMBO asked through the door of my manroom, "Are you on the floor looking at your beer, again?" She knows me so well, I like to see approximately how many bubbles a minute I am at, so I can plan the next step.

Is this too much? I always toast the fermenter as soon as the yeast gets pitched.
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"toast"? Not quite sure what you mean there. However, I wouldn't rely on your bubbles to determine when your beer is finished or as any type of indicator.

I recommend swirling the carboy for the first few days of fermentation, waiting the time necessary for fermentation and conditioning to complete, and taking readings to ensure it is finished.
 
yeah I know the ritual well... It's not so much that looking at the airlock is to determine the timing (I use those tasty hydrometer readings for that :D) as it is to smell the output and look at the carboy and try to imagine what it will taste like when it is done. Then the next thought is what I'm I going to brew next and then after that and then... :tank:
 
Ahh...gotcha. I didn't realize until last night how long it's been since I made a stout! The aroma was fantastic :) Can't wait to taste it...I think I made it a little too bitter for a true-to-style Oatmeal Stout (those mash hops really came through), but it will be a great beer, I'm sure.
 
Planning on using this method to do my first AG batch (Yooper's Dead Guy clone recipe).

However, I bought a second 7.5gal kettle and plan to use a propane burner. I'm hoping the larger kettle and propane burner (allowing for more water to be used) should get me better efficiency. Also going to make an insulated jacket for the mash kettle to help keep temp steady.

I'm excited, hoping this works! :mug:
 
Should work great! If you have a colander, you can further improve efficiency by holding the grain in a colander, and pouring a small amount of the sparge water through them before you dunk them in the sparge water.
 
DB,

Just wanted to thank you (and the others) who provided writeups for stove top AG brewing. For the most part I followed your procedure (only minor modifications) to make a 3 gallon batch of a Bell's Best Brown Ale clone:

- my mash temp was within a degree of my target
- I used my oven to maintain temp and stirred the mash every 20 minutes
- the calculations I found through you and others for water holdup, boiloff, etc. were right on; I wound up putting almost exactly 3 gallons into the fermenter
- using BrewTarget and my measured OG, I had an efficiency of 72%
- and most importantly, it was fun (as if I didn't think it would be)!

Thanks again and happy krausening!
 
DeathBrewer said:
Should work great! If you have a colander, you can further improve efficiency by holding the grain in a colander, and pouring a small amount of the sparge water through them before you dunk them in the sparge water.
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I found an expandable colander at Bed, Bath and Beyond that fits across the top of my fermenter (should fit over brew kettles too); holds quite a bit of grain quite nicely for this process.

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?order_num=-1&SKU=11951678
 
Excellent idea! Just don't try one of those cheap plastic colanders with binder clips to hold it on to the pot. They like to collapse under the weight of grain and splash hot wort everywhere.

:drunk:
 
gak27 said:
I found an expandable colander at Bed, Bath and Beyond that fits across the top of my fermenter (should fit over brew kettles too); holds quite a bit of grain quite nicely for this process.
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I hate shopping, but when my wife wants to go to a BB&B, I go with her. There must be some subliminal marketing going on there to get us guys to visit.... Colanders, thermometers, pots, and I bought Mr Beer refills there when I first started brewing.

Okay..back to OT. Seems like some people are lacking capacity with their pots, but can get the temps they need from their stove. I have just the opposite. I have two 7-8 gal pots, but cannot boil over two gallons of water on my ceramic countertop stove. It just won't get that hot, even straddling two eyes. But, I only have one gas burner for my fish/turkey cooker.

So which is the biggest PITA.....cooking from the stove in 2 gallon increments and then trying to cool and transfer multiple pots of liquids, or cooking in the garage with the gas cooker with the ability to heat only one pot at the time? I can boil 5 gals of wort on my gas cooker quicker than I can boil 2 to 2.5 gals on the stove. So, I am thinking the overall brewing process will be a little faster for me using the gas. I can be heating the sparge/boil water while mashing, and use the stove to heat a smaller amount in case I blow a reading and adjustments are needed. Sound like a plan?
 
I would use your burner. I do this method all the time with one burner. You should never heat the pot when there are grains in it, anyway.

1. Heat mash water...mash in. Set mash pot aside and cover with blankets to keep warm. Do not set on concrete...it'll suck the heat right out of it.
2. Heat sparge water while you are mashing.
3. Sparge.
4. Mix pots together.
5. Heat and boil.

As for corrections...if you use the proper calculations, you shouldn't need any corrections. Use the green bay rackers site for good calculators.
 
Just an FYI my Dead Guy clone first AG attempt using this method on a propane burner with two 7.5gal pots worked fairly well. I made a bigger mess than normal, but hit 62% efficiency when all was said and done, and the beer is bubbling away nicely for the 3rd straight day.

Planning on doing a MO/Amarillo SMaSH this weekend, hoping to fine tune the process and spill less wort this time!

:mug:
 
I am curious how long you are waiting to see if your water will boil?

I did 4 gallons of water on my stove the other day just as an experiment... at half an hour the pot was still cool to the touch. At 50 mins it had reached strike water temps, at 1hour it was boiling. It wasn't super fast, but it did get there.

Granted your stove may not do it... but mine is old and cheap, so I would be surprised if it is better than average.
 

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