i think my LHBS is lying to me {Carboy Prices GoinG Up}

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King MF Midas

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i went to my LHBS the other day and for one he had no cornies and two he said they don't make glass carboys anymore, that the factory had closed its doors and the remaining stock of glass carboys went quick. i've never bought any online before but i'm sure shipping isn't cheap.

i have'nt gotten a chance to go up there lately but i have some English ale in my secondary thats been there for lke 6 weeks. it should be ok right?
 
Forrest (AHS) told us a little while back that the Mexican factory that makes carboys stopped manufacturing them, so the only glass carboys coming into the country would be Italian and probably cost about twice what they go for today ($40 - $45).

Better Bottles are a perfectly valid alternative (I'd argue superior, except perhaps for VERY long-term aging, north of six months or so).
 
The only North American glass carboy manufacturer has stopped producing

Glass carboys. There is an Italian manufacturer that makes them and I am sure they will be available but with high transportation costs you can expect the price to increase significantly.

Your English Ale should be just fine as long as it was at a decent temp during the 6 weeks.
 
thanks for the quick reply, i took a few looks in some forums for a thread about it already but i guess i didn't look hard enough. so you guys don't recommend better bottles for long term fermentation like a barley wine?
 
Personally, I just have not yet been convinced that the O2 permeablity is close enough to 0 to use it for something that would be aged THAT long. I'm sure some people have done it and it's probably fine; my comfort level for something that's going to be sitting for a year is that it be in glass (or stainless). If I couldn't get a carboy, I'd probably put it in a cornie.

But, this is still an area that's of some controversy.
 
I don't think that even long term aging in Better-Bottles would be detrimental. The whole "glass has zero oxygen permeability" is a myth. The TOTAL oxygen permeability of a glass carboy, as a system, is not zero when you take into account the rubber stopper in the neck and liquid filled airlock. In typical use, I don't think it would be a stretch to assume that more oxygen diffuses through, or leaks by, stoppers and liquid-filled air locks than diffuses through the walls of Better-Bottle with it's solid PET closure and PET airlock.
 
I have an apflwein in a better bottle that I made on superbowl Sunday. I will see if I can taste any differences when I get around to kegging it.
Honestly I am not anticipating any.
 
I don't think that even long term aging in Better-Bottles would be detrimental. The whole "glass has zero oxygen permeability" is a myth. The TOTAL oxygen permeability of a glass carboy, as a system, is not zero when you take into account the rubber stopper in the neck and liquid filled airlock. In typical use, more oxygen diffuses through, or leaks by, stoppers and liquid-filled air locks than diffuses through the walls of Better-Bottle with it's solid PET closure and PET airlock.

This isn't an issue that I'm necessarily convinced I'm right about. I just haven't heard enough people say "Dude, I aged my BW for a year and it was fine!" yet to convince me. In large part, that's just because they're still pretty new to market. It'll be interesting to hear more real-world experienced trickle in regarding this question.

For anything that's to be aged less than six months, I wouldn't hestiate in the least to use a BB.
 
I've had wine in a BB for over a year and I've had a belgian tripel in a BB for almost a year. No problems with any of them. Other people's mileage may vary but I wouldn't worry about it too much.
 
This isn't an issue that I'm necessarily convinced I'm right about. I just haven't heard enough people say "Dude, I aged my BW for a year and it was fine!" yet to convince me. In large part, that's just because they're still pretty new to market. It'll be interesting to hear more real-world experienced trickle in regarding this question.

For anything that's to be aged less than six months, I wouldn't hestiate in the least to use a BB.

I agree that there isn't a whole of empirical data on either side. While it's most definitely true that the glass of a glass carboy has zero oxygen permeability, it is also true that a glass carboy, as a system (rubber stopper, airlock, racking with a racking cane as opposed to the racking adapter of a BB) does not have a zero oxygen permeability. How much higher than zero? Who knows? How much higher than zero is the Better-Bottle as a system? Again, who knows?

My only experience with long term aging is a RIS that I had in a 5 gallon Better-Bottle secondary for 1 year. I bought this Better-Bottle specifically for this as I didn't wan't to tie up any others that I had for that long. I did it knowing that there could be some long term, negative effects. To be honest, I haven't the slightest idea what an oxidized brew would taste like, but this RIS, which I'm still enjoying two years later, is one of the finest adult beverage related experiences I've ever had every time I pull a pint.
 
Well, that's the kind of feedback that I just haven't heard too much of yet.

One thing I need to do, though, is invest in one of the PET BB airlocks. I've been using a carboy cap, which I imagine isn't much better than leaving the top open with respect to O2 moving into the BB!

For me, it also comes down to.... what the hell else am I going to do with these carboys? I'm not going to throw them away, and I've only got the one BB right now and I absolutely love using it as a primary. I don't care for using the glass carboy as a primary fermenter, I just know I'll end up severing an artery.
 
I agree that there isn't a whole of empirical data on either side. While it's most definitely true that the glass of a glass carboy has zero oxygen permeability, it is also true that a glass carboy, as a system (rubber stopper, airlock, racking with a racking cane as opposed to the racking adapter of a BB) does not have a zero oxygen permeability. How much higher than zero? Who knows? How much higher than zero is the Better-Bottle as a system? Again, who knows?

My only experience with long term aging is a RIS that I had in a 5 gallon Better-Bottle secondary for 1 year. I bought this Better-Bottle specifically for this as I didn't wan't to tie up any others that I had for that long. I did it knowing that there could be some long term, negative effects. To be honest, I haven't the slightest idea what an oxidized brew would taste like, but this RIS, which I'm still enjoying two years later, is one of the finest adult beverage related experiences I've ever had every time I pull a pint.

I don;t have BLAM with me but there is a table in there that lists the O2 permeability of glass a "system". I'll try to remember to post when I get home.
 
Well, that's the kind of feedback that I just haven't heard too much of yet.

One thing I need to do, though, is invest in one of the PET BB airlocks. I've been using a carboy cap, which I imagine isn't much better than leaving the top open with respect to O2 moving into the BB!

For me, it also comes down to.... what the hell else am I going to do with these carboys? I'm not going to throw them away, and I've only got the one BB right now and I absolutely love using it as a primary. I don't care for using the glass carboy as a primary fermenter, I just know I'll end up severing an artery.

I have relegated my 5 gallon carboys to the service of Mead or Cider. Those have little to no Krausen so there is no concern for blow off due to lack of headspace. Heck, I might even try wine some day.

There is still the severed artery issue tho'.
 
I love the Better-Bottle system! I've invested in all the fittings, closures, handles, and airlock/check valves to take full advantage of the system. Oxygen free transfers using the CO2 created during primary fermentation to purge the secondary, etc..

The other advantage to the BB airlock is the fact that it's also a check valve, so that when you use a standard carboy handle to lift the BB when it's full there is no "sucking" as occurs with a standard liquid filled airlock.

4295-DSC02180.jpg


4295-racking_schematic_carboy_purge_1.jpg
 
Although realize that O2 permeability, HSA and autolysis are factors in large operations, as a homebrewer I am not too concerned with any of these when normal brewing practices are being followed.
 
The other advantage to the BB airlock is the fact that it's also a check valve, so that when you use a standard carboy handle to lift the BB when it's full there is no "sucking" as occurs with a standard liquid filled airlock.

Hmm, well, that's interesting. The one thing I DISLIKE about the BB is that unless I pick it up at the very bottom, it does tend to suck back a lot. Can't just bear-hug those things.

I'll say, too, that historically my brewing of bigger beers that would require significant aging has been limited, in large part because it's taken a little while to get my efficiency squared away where really BIG beers are feasible without buying a lot of extract. But, I have some ingredients to get used up, so I'd like to get some stuff going that can age through the winter.

I've also had a few older batches recently that have been a little... meh... carboardy/stale, so I'm a little bit sensitive to making sure I take whatever steps I can to minimize oxidation. I'm not suggesting it was that they were brewed in plastic, but whatever I can do to limit this exposure, I'd like to do.
 
Hmm, well, that's interesting. The one thing I DISLIKE about the BB is that unless I pick it up at the very bottom, it does tend to suck back a lot. Can't just bear-hug those things.

Right. That is no longer an issue when using a carboy handle and the BB airlock. The Better-Bottle neck is designed to be strong enough to use a standard carboy handle to lift it when full, unlike a glass carboy.
 
ihe said they don't make glass carboys anymore, that the factory had closed its doors and the remaining stock of glass carboys went quick. i've never bought any online before but i'm sure shipping isn't cheap.

$20 shipping for 1, $17 for 2, $16 for 3. Each. I ordered 3 for $20 each....

6.5 GALLON GLASS CARBOY

If you look around you can find them for like $20 or $40. Northern Brewer sells unused acid-rated lab carboys for $20 but shipping is a ***** (they charge $8 flat rate, but carboys aren't included in that and get regular UPS shipping rates instead).

Every local shop I've seen sells them for $40, while some online places do $40 plus buttload of shipping!
 
I've gotta admit, I feel like I'm getting into this hobby a year or two too late! Which is funny, since by all counts it seems more and more people are taking the plunge.

Glass carboys, corny kegs, hops... what's next? Yeast?

;)
 
Wood has a pretty high oxygen permeability, relatively speaking, and I've heard of some pretty decent brews being aged in that.

Just sayin'
 
I've gotta admit, I feel like I'm getting into this hobby a year or two too late! Which is funny, since by all counts it seems more and more people are taking the plunge.

Glass carboys, corny kegs, hops... what's next? Yeast?

;)


i feel you bro, i bought my starter set up at my LHBS and it was 60 bucks an it came with a plastic bucket primary and a glass secondary and whole bunch of other stuff but a few months later it looks like i am gonna pay 60 bucks just for another glass carboy.
 
if you have an old time pottery you can pick up 5 gallon carboys that would be great for secondary's i paid 19 bucks for mine. i picked up 4 of them. i got 2 6 1/2's from the lbhs and an ale pail on my brewers kit. dont be afraid of the pails until those nice bottles come out from bitter creek.
 
This has turned into a great discussion on glass vs BB, but right now, where I am the best bang for the buck is buying 5 gal cornies, they work great to serve beer, secondary's, bright tanks, etc. And with SS prices going up, heck in 5 years I may be able to scrap them for $200 each. I doubt it, but hey I'm trying to get the best bang for the buck right now.
 
Wood has a pretty high oxygen permeability, relatively speaking, and I've heard of some pretty decent brews being aged in that.

Just sayin'

hadn't read that about the carboys, but i'm stocked on them, hopefully for the duration.


:D
 
Just a short rant: Before you buy a carboy online that you think you're getting a good deal on: check the shipping first! I just bought 2 for $24.95 each. Plus $19 each for shipping, which puts these things on the high end of what my LHBS charges!
 
This has turned into the best Glass vs Carboy threads I have seen on here. It should be prosted, renamed and stickied, and that way we can simply refer the n00bs who will inevitably start threads on this topic, to the wealth of good info on here. I'm glad some of you "sages" on here have talked about your experiences with long term aging in the BB...

:mug:
 
This has turned into the best Glass vs Carboy threads I have seen on here. It should be prosted, renamed and stickied, and that way we can simply refer the n00bs who will inevitably start threads on this topic, to the wealth of good info on here. I'm glad some of you "sages" on here have talked about your experiences with long term aging in the BB...

+1.

To me, Better Bottles are God's second greatest gift to homebrewers. First is HomeBrewTalk.com. :mug:
 
Do you guys have stores like Party Town and Party Source nearby? They usually have a small, not well stocked homebrew section that is good for buying equipment cheap.

I get 6.5 gallon carboys for $25 all day. Since it's in my 1st in district, I can go there on the clock.

Mike
 
Well, I'm not about to give up my glass carboys, and will certainly acquire a few more 6gal ones soon.
AS for the 'Better Bottle' carboys, I think its an interesting system, and if glass goes up like its expected, I'll be wishing I had stock in Better Bottles.
 
Well, I've got 8 6.5gal glass carboys and 4 3gal. Been using them for 6 years or so and never had anything to complain about. But I am very interested in the BB's since my LHBS has been hit with the glass shortage. So I'm going to pick up a couple to start playing with. Y'all have convinced me to at least give them a try.

Also, been thinking about the Minibrew conical. But the forum seems to be split down the middle on whether or not they are worth it, so I'll wait and see where that goes.

Thanks y'all.

Karma
 
Interesting! I did not know this!

I got both my glass carboys at garage sales. One was $1, the other was free. :D
 
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