flaked rye vs rye malt

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jldesign

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I have a recipe calling for:
1.25 flaked rye
2.5 rye malt

what is the difference? and can I do it with all rye malt? if so how much is equal?

my first rye usage

thanks for any help
 
The flakes are gelatinized by heat from the rolling, and get sorta cooked. You can do the same thing by decocting. I plan on using a decoction for my next rye batch. I will decoct all of the rye malt, plus some of the other grains. Aand, I use 1 1/2# rice hulls, havent had a stuck sparge yet. 8 batchs of rye so far. 2# rye malt per. I'd say just add the two for a total of rye. 4# sounds like lots fro a 5# batch. Go for it!
 
Use both for a better rye flavor. The malted rye is full modified, and has a diastatic power of 105 and adds to your gravity percentage. It has a nice earthy rye taste, and typically you can use up to 20 to 30 percent of it in your grain bill. As for flaked, its indeed pregelatainized, and doesnt need to be milled. Just add it to your mash. It has a nice spicy rye flavor and is a more concentrated flavor than rye malt. The flaked rye is basically flavor only, as it doesnt add to you gravity percentage. Myself, I use both always, and use a single infusion mash. Ive use typically 2-3 pounds of malted rye with 1-2 pounds of flaked, and so far, have yet to have any sparging problems. Your results my vary:D
 
Key difference is that flaked is raw and rye malt is malted.

I'm like Tony. I use em both in a single infusion mash, but I have used malted only when I can't find flaked, and I honestly don't notice a huge difference.
 
Tony said:
(snip) The flaked rye is basically flavor only, as it doesnt add to you gravity percentage (snip)
Click to expand...

I don't think so. If cooking prevented yeast from making alcohol from the starch, then decoction mashing wouldn't work either. The whole point of flakes is that they are pre-gelatinised, making the starch more available for conversion by the enzymes. Sort of an alternative to malting. Flaking might have a different taste? Your Flavors May Vary ?

Cooking rye flour brings out some more flavor, so I did try roasting my malted rye for one batch, but it didn't seem to change anything. Maybe I'l just up the rye malt to 4# next time?

ETA, I just got a bottle of Hop Rod Rye (birthday today). it'll be the first rye for me that I didn't brew myself. I'll see what I see...
 
casebrew said:
ETA, I just got a bottle of Hop Rod Rye (birthday today). it'll be the first rye for me that I didn't brew myself. I'll see what I see...
Click to expand...

Prepare to LOVE that stuff.

B-day? It isn't on the birthdays on the site.....
 
jldesign said:
I have a recipe calling for:
1.25 flaked rye
2.5 rye malt
Click to expand...

so if flaked is unavailable can or should I swap rye malt in equal proportions for flaked?

this is for hop rod BTW! I can't wait!!! would 1056 work well in place of Wyeast 1272 or White Labs WLP051 in this case?
 
Yeah, just use malted rye if you need to.

I have used the Chico yeats on it, but I have to say I honestly prefer the California V from White Labs. It seems to attenuate more fully. YMMV.

morebeer.com can send you some fast if you need it.

They have the flaked rye too I think. If not, beveragepeople.com does.

This is not a beer to be trifled with ;)

Cheers :D
 
Dude said:
Prepare to LOVE that stuff.

B-day? It isn't on the birthdays on the site.....
Click to expand...

I don't like it, to much "grapefruit" from the hops. Simcoe? or does Scaaz do it too? I'm not a hop head, I've been using East Kent Golding pellets, 1oz boiling, 1oz aroma for my 5 gal.

So. I lied about my birthdate at a beer
drinking establishment again...:mug:
 
jldesign said:
so if flaked is unavailable can or should I swap rye malt in equal proportions for flaked?

this is for hop rod BTW! I can't wait!!! would 1056 work well in place of Wyeast 1272 or White Labs WLP051 in this case?
Click to expand...

Midwest always has flaked. As for the yeast, definately use either the California V or WYeast 1272 to give you a fruitier flavor for the Hop Rod Rye.

Hop Rod Rye is the best!
 
Tony said:
Sorry, but its true. The gravity obtained from flaked is hardly noticable.
Click to expand...

Well, 1 1/2 pounds in a 12# grain bill is about 10%. If you call 10% hardly noticable, I guess you are correct.

Otherwise, can you explain why it doesn't add? and why flaked corn does? and why decocted grains do? I'm here to learn...
 
casebrew said:
Well, 1 1/2 pounds in a 12# grain bill is about 10%. If you call 10% hardly noticable, I guess you are correct.

Otherwise, can you explain why it doesn't add? and why flaked corn does? and why decocted grains do? I'm here to learn...
Click to expand...

Okay, lets break it down some...the diastatic power of flaked rye is really negligible, and mainly is for flavor. With the low diastatic power, enzyme activity is barely present, and does not lead to very much sugar production. Not saying that if you use enough you wont get sugar production, just that you would need to use a large amount. But with the modifed rye malt, it has a diastatic power of over 100 and allows for a good starch production, which allows for a higher conversion to sugar. So, because of this, you get a higher concentration of sugar production from malted than from flaked.

The flaked is always sold basically as an adjunct, and leads to flavor. The great part is that it breaks down very easily and boosts flavor so nicely. In my opinion, as well as past experiences, I always use it together with malted rye for a more complete rye flavor.
 
Tony said:
Okay, lets break it down some...the diastatic power of flaked rye is really negligible, and mainly is for flavor. With the low diastatic power, enzyme activity is barely present, and does not lead to very much sugar production. Not saying that if you use enough you wont get sugar production, just that you would need to use a large amount. But with the modifed rye malt, it has a diastatic power of over 100 and allows for a good starch production, which allows for a higher conversion to sugar. So, because of this, you get a higher concentration of sugar production from malted than from flaked.

The flaked is always sold basically as an adjunct, and leads to flavor. The great part is that it breaks down very easily and boosts flavor so nicely. In my opinion, as well as past experiences, I always use it together with malted rye for a more complete rye flavor.
Click to expand...


Aand, we use high diastatic grains (lkke malted rye) mixed in our grist to convert low diastatic grains (like flakes). So, the flakes may be used specificaly for flavor, but to say that they don't contribute fermentibles is WRONG.
 
Like I said, and grain companies say as well, the gravity increase with flakes is minimal, especially in 5 and 10 gallon batches. But, you can believe what you want. Im done.
 
Tony said:
Like I said, and grain companies say as well, the gravity increase with flakes is minimal, especially in 5 and 10 gallon batches. But, you can believe what you want. Im done.
Click to expand...

Zombie thread time.


You're wrong and done. The starches from flaked grains, when accompanied by enzyme-rich malted grains in the mash, are fully converted into fermentable sugars and certainly DO contribute to the OG and the final alcohol content. I brew an annual wit with 42% flaked wheat. The wheat contributes nearly half of the gravity points, and the points are clearly fermentable because my wits always finish between 1.002 and 1.005.

I don't like misinformation floating around the ends of threads, even older ones. I easily stumbled on this one while doing research for an upcoming saison with rye.
 
Funny you posted. I was looking at this thread just last week and rolled my eyes at Tony's analysis. A grain not having its own diastatic power does not mean it can't be converted, it just means it needs another source for the diastatic power to do this job. This is also why folks use 6-row couple with high % flaked wheat/rye or other cereal grains without their own enzymatic content.

Good post beergeek.
 
Just to hijack the zombie thread for a minute...
Is there a rule of thumb about when to bump up from 2 row to 6 row? I'm new to mashing, but most of what I've read says 2 row tastes better as a base malt and can convert some adjuncts, but not how much. I'm hoping to do some rye experiments later this summer, glad I ran into this thread!
 
pkiller001 said:
Just to hijack the zombie thread for a minute...
Is there a rule of thumb about when to bump up from 2 row to 6 row? I'm new to mashing, but most of what I've read says 2 row tastes better as a base malt and can convert some adjuncts, but not how much. I'm hoping to do some rye experiments later this summer, glad I ran into this thread!
Click to expand...

I have seen a few guidances based on trying to achieve a "minimum weighted average" for DP in the mash. Numbers in the 30-40 degrees Lintner range. If you don't make it to the minimum with 2-row, sub some 6-row to get there. That is how I have seen it referenced, but I've not really had to deal with it in the beers I brew, so I may not have depicted it 100% accurately and if not I am sure someone will jump on me for it :D
 
Denny said:
It usually refers to rye malt IMO. I find rye malt has much more flavor than flaked rye.
Click to expand...

Thats what i have heard myself. So i brewed the same recipe with both with flaked and malted rye. Myself, i tasted much more rye in the beer with the flaked rye over the malted. But thats just me.
 
Flaked rye, will give you more of a raw rye flavor and malt rye just like any other malt will have a flavor change as you dry or lightly bake the malt. (taste your malts before use) I like to use BOTH flaked and malted rye, how much i use of each comes down to the gain bill. The more malt rye i use in the mash, the more chance of getting my mash stuck. If I go over 20% rye I will split it, half flaked half malt. (also may need to use rice hushes).

For me flaked vs malt rye has always come down to not getting the mash stuck.
 
I just had the first bottle of my first rye lager, which contained 20% unmalted rye. I toasted the grains in the oven at 170 degrees Celsius for about 20 minutes (split in two batches of 500g each for even toasting), which produced a very pleasant cookie-like aroma. The beer is very nice as well, although I added a bit too much hops and covered up too much of the rye flavour, I'm afraid. But it's only been a week in the bottle, so the hop character should still decrease with time.

Also, I was very surprised how clear this beer got: I thought the rye would make a muddy mess and made an effort to reduce the haze, and it came out to be one of the clearest beers I've made.

Note that milling raw grains can be hard - unmalted wheat is a real challenge for many malt mills - and that toasting helps in that regard, as the reduced moisture content makes the grains easier to crack. I ran them through the mill 3 times, as they don't have husks anyways.
 
Last edited:
monkeymath said:
I just had the first bottle of my first rye lager, which contained 20% unmalted rye. I toasted the grains in the oven at 170 degrees Celsius for about 20 minutes (split in two batches of 500g each for even toasting), which produced a very pleasant cookie-like aroma. The beer is very nice as well, although I added a bit too much hops and covered up too much of the rye flavour, I'm afraid. But it's only been a week in the bottle, so the hop character should still decrease with time.

Also, I was very surprised how clear this beer got: I thought the rye would make a muddy mess and made an effort to reduce the haze, and it came out to be one of the clearest beers I've made.

Note that milling raw grains can be hard - unmalted wheat is a real challenge for many malt mills - and that toasting helps in that regard, as the reduced moisture content makes the grains easier to crack. I ran them through the mill 3 times, as they don't have husks anyways.
Click to expand...
Scott Janish had an interesting blog post about unmalted nonkilned adjuncts having longer chain proteins that help precipitate polyphenol-protein complex caused haze. If you switched to malted rye, you may have seen the opposite.
I wonder what 5 tablespoons of gluten would do to help clear up haze.
 
jldesign said:
I have a recipe calling for:
1.25 flaked rye
2.5 rye malt

what is the difference? and can I do it with all rye malt? if so how much is equal?

my first rye usage

thanks for any help
Click to expand...

what is it a 1 gallon batch? and i can't believe i'm quoting a post from 2006...:mug:
 
JustusLiebig said:
Scott Janish had an interesting blog post about unmalted nonkilned adjuncts having longer chain proteins that help precipitate polyphenol-protein complex caused haze. If you switched to malted rye, you may have seen the opposite.
I wonder what 5 tablespoons of gluten would do to help clear up haze.
Click to expand...
Gluten is Protein, if you have a lot of polyphenols and tannins in your wort adding gluten to the boil will bond with them and drop out as you cool the wort. Or if you want more protein add it to the end of the boil, but i think you will get more haze that way.
 

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