Are the All Stainless Elements Worth It?

Hey guys. It's been a while since I have posted on HBT but I have been busy with the wife and new son. So I have been brewing about 2 years on my Kal type system and I love it. However, I have had mild rusting on my HLT element since the get go. I think it screwed up my first two batches on the system back in the day and just the other day I finally got fed up with it after my last brew, ripped the element out and bent it in half in the bench vise to make my decision final. I had tried coating it with POR-15 twice and each time the POR-15 gets stripped off by the SS nut that goes over top and leads to more rust. I have read multiple other threads and have come to the conclusion (so far) that there are no great solutions to this rusting problem. So I'm looking at the following options......

1. Coat a regular element base in food grade silicone and see if that fixes it.

2. Install a magnesium anode.

3. Buy an element from Brewmation with a stainless base at $60 for the 5500watt element.
http://www.brewmation.com/Heating_Elements.html

I'm kind of at the point where I'm tired of screwing around with these rusting elements so I am leaning toward purchasing the all stainless element and being done with it. However, I can't really find much info about the elements anywhere. Their website doesn't provide much info and I never received a response to the questions I sent them. Has anyone tried these elements? Are they of good quality to the element itself and the base material? Has anyone tried using silicone or magnesium anodes and found they still didn't work? Any input would be helpful.... carry on.

I just bought 2 from Brewmation but haven't started brewing on them yet. What an extra few bucks when you have the kind of money into a Kal type system? Worth it to me.

Roadie said:

I just bought 2 from Brewmation but haven't started brewing on them yet. What an extra few bucks when you have the kind of money into a Kal type system? Worth it to me.

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Sure the extra money is completely fine if they are of decent quality. I just don't want to waste money on a product I haven't heard much about and can't seem to get answers from the company about. If the 430 stainless on them is good and the element itself performs well I would be in for one to try it.

Scut_Monkey said:

Sure the extra money is completely fine if they are of decent quality. I just don't want to waste money on a product I haven't heard much about and can't seem to get answers from the company about. If the 430 stainless on them is good and the element itself performs well I would be in for one to try it.

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I've read some threads on Kal's site where people tried the all stainless base and it didn't rust. Definitely worth it for me to go that way from the start. The makers of my kettles also recommended them so that was a step in the right direction to me as well.

Roadie said:

I've read some threads on Kal's site where people tried the all stainless base and it didn't rust. Definitely worth it for me to go that way from the start. The makers of my kettles also recommended them so that was a step in the right direction to me as well.

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That's good to know and helpful. It's strange but my boil kettle never had any rust problems after I put the POR 15 on. I think the threads on the other element were just a little tighter and the coating kept getting stripped off each time I installed the element. Either way I wouldn't go the POR-15 route again because now I worry if I ever take the other element assembly apart for maintenance that it will rust as well.

Roadie said:

I've read some threads on Kal's site where people tried the all stainless base and it didn't rust. Definitely worth it for me to go that way from the start. The makers of my kettles also recommended them so that was a step in the right direction to me as well.

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If the maker of your kettle is Stout that makes sense. The full brew house setups that Brewmation sells use Stout kettles.

Yes I have Stout kettles.

Amazon has the 6000w SS ones a ton cheaper

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000PSB3B2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I don't believe the bases on the Camco elements are SS and that's where they rust. The Brewmation elements, including the base, is all SS so people don't experience the rust issues with hem.

Why not use a kettle style element? They are cheap and 100% stainless.

Option 2: do not bother with magnesium anode, the base still rusts. Check out my build in my sig I've got a picture of it in there.

big_len said:

Why not use a kettle style element? They are cheap and 100% stainless.

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Kettle style elements, wound into a disc shape, are difficult to find in the US. It is a good design and frequently used by homebrewers in the UK and Australia. You guys also have large electric urns at reasonable prices (jealous).

Epimetheus said:

Kettle style elements, wound into a disc shape, are difficult to find in the US. It is a good design and frequently used by homebrewers in the UK and Australia. You guys also have large electric urns at reasonable prices (jealous).

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I actually was not aware of this ! Thank you for the heads up

(And, yes I use 2 of them in my BK)

renthispace said:

Option 2: do not bother with magnesium anode, the base still rusts. Check out my build in my sig I've got a picture of it in there.

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Yeah from what I have seen the anode trick doesn't always work. One great reason I don't think I'm going that route.

Personally, I view the rust as a minor annoyance. I seriously doubt that any of your batches were screwed up by rust on your element base. I have been electric brewing for 6 or 7 years with no issues from the rust. A word of advice, if you buy $60 elements, make sure to install a float switch to make them impossible to dry fire. I have dry fired several elements and at $18 it is annoying but not nearly as annoying as it would be at $60. YMMV.
Embrace the rust!

stevehaun said:

Personally, I view the rust as a minor annoyance. I seriously doubt that any of your batches were screwed up by rust on your element base. I have been electric brewing for 6 or 7 years with no issues from the rust. A word of advice, if you buy $60 elements, make sure to install a float switch to make them impossible to dry fire. I have dry fired several elements and at $18 it is annoying but not nearly as annoying as it would be at $60. YMMV.
Embrace the rust!

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I hear you there. Although, I have dry fired my previous Camco ripple element a couple times for maybe 20 seconds (guess) each time and this didn't destroy them. I guess that's the nice thing about ULWD elements. Where are people buying the Camco ripple 5500w elements at these days? I see them now right around $30. This seems kind of high to me.

stevehaun said:

Personally, I view the rust as a minor annoyance. I seriously doubt that any of your batches were screwed up by rust on your element base. I have been electric brewing for 6 or 7 years with no issues from the rust. A word of advice, if you buy $60 elements, make sure to install a float switch to make them impossible to dry fire. I have dry fired several elements and at $18 it is annoying but not nearly as annoying as it would be at $60. YMMV.
Embrace the rust!

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honestly I think the por 15 is way worse for the beer....that stuff is loaded with nasty chemicals.
the water naturally has iron in it from the iron ore in the ground... some more than others... but the tiny amount coming off the element is negligible. One of my elements stopped rusting and the other didn't after wiping them down once with a cap of olive oil... I think If I had done this when they were new before any rust started I would have had no issues.
I paid about $20-25 for my ace hardware 4500w uld ripple elements.
And the ultra low density elements can be dry fired without damage... I'm not sure for how long though... plus due to the design they are the least likely element to be able to Scotch the sort with.

My HLT element (Camco ULWD 5500w) rusted even with a magnesium anode. So I just coated the base with food grade silicone after it was snug in the kettle and called it a day. No more rust. My BK element developed the protective coating on the base that Kal talks about, so I've never had problems with it. I looked into those SS elements but since I had the silicone I figured why not try it, and it worked fine. And I saved $40 (a drop in the bucket for a Kal style system I know, but that's like two brews worth of ingredients!)

I have dry fired two different brands of ULWD elements including the infamous CAMCO ripple. It only takes several minutes. They are dry fire - resistant not dry fire - proof.

dcbw said:

My HLT element (Camco ULWD 5500w) rusted even with a magnesium anode. So I just coated the base with food grade silicone after it was snug in the kettle and called it a day. No more rust. My BK element developed the protective coating on the base that Kal talks about, so I've never had problems with it. I looked into those SS elements but since I had the silicone I figured why not try it, and it worked fine. And I saved $40 (a drop in the bucket for a Kal style system I know, but that's like two brews worth of ingredients!)

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I'm glad to hear that the silicone trick has worked well for you. I haven't heard much feedback from people that have tried this. I think I'm going to try this on a ripple element. I figure even if it dosen't work for me I would then buy an all SS element and at least have a spare element if one blows on me mid-brew day. Plus who actually wants to buy a $60 element. I have plenty of other brew items I would rather spend the money on.

stevehaun said:

I have dry fired two different brands of ULWD elements including the infamous CAMCO ripple. It only takes several minutes. They are dry fire - resistant not dry fire - proof.

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Did you actually ruin an element? From what I recall, which may be inaccurate, when I dry fired mine a couple times I could start to hear the element making a strange hissing noise. When I looked in part of the coil was red hot and I cut the power and dumped water in as it was only the HLT. It worked completey fine after that until just recently when I pulled it out and purposely broke it from being pissed about the constant rust.

Scut_Monkey said:

I'm glad to hear that the silicone trick has worked well for you. I haven't heard much feedback from people that have tried this. I think I'm going to try this on a ripple element. I figure even if it dosen't work for me I would then buy an all SS element and at least have a spare element if one blows on me mid-brew day. Plus who actually wants to buy a $60 element. I have plenty of other brew items I would rather spend the money on.

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I did not bother siliconing the threads or anything. I just installed the element and tightened up the locknut, then smeared a layer of silicone over the base of the element and a bit onto the face of the locknut. None on the sides or anything, because my element was only rusting on the face of the base, not the threads.

I did dry-fire my BK element once because I do not have a safe start interlock, but after 30 seconds of "what is that smell??" I realized and killed the power with no harm done.

So apparently there is a tiny bit of rust from the threads, so you may want to smear the sides of the locknut too.

Looking at the Camco 5500W I was going to get for my Keggle says this.

Ultra LWD and special metal surface (premium grade nickel and stainless steel) reduce chances of lime build-up. They resist dry firing and are ideal for problem water areas and locations with intermittent water supply.

stevehaun said:

I have dry fired two different brands of ULWD elements including the infamous CAMCO ripple. It only takes several minutes. They are dry fire - resistant not dry fire - proof.

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After a minute one should usually catch on and correct the situation... at least thats the way it would seem to me..

I've had no luck with either silicone smear or magnesium anodes... even went so far as to machine my own from a magnesium fire starter, drill/thread a small hole into the base and install it directly to the base. It didn't work. I hate rust in my BK.

The elements at Brewmation are 22" long (too long), and the ripple element won't screw into my bottom port.

I just ordered one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/180940061552?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
It has a brass base, which is pretty popular in Australia, but not so much here.
I ordered mine in 6000 watt, but the down side is they have a 1-1/4" straight thread base, which means I'll be welding a new bung into my BK, but I'm good with that since I have my own TIG.

BTW, there is no $17 Camco element that has a SS base... they are galvanized, which eventually dissolves into your beer leaving bare steel which rusts.

I have replaced three elements (2 were camco ripples and 1 was a rheem) that were ruined by dry firing. I have a 30 gallon system with two elements in both the BK and HLT. I had camco ripples in my BK and both required replacement when I dry fired. I also dry fired my HLT and only one element required replacement because the other element was partially submerged. Both times I heard a hissing noise and could smell it as well.

Por-15 is used in motorcycle gas tanks after removing rust to prevent further rusting (often unsuccessfully). I'm not putting that in my brew system.

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Home Brew mobile app

I simply remove the rust and keep the tank full to prevent rusting as well as drain the water under the gas annually.

Point... keep it simple stupid.

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Home Brew mobile app

I just sealed mine with food safe silicon calk

Got my brass base element... good news everybody, the base is a standard 1" straight pipe thread, and fits perfectly in the existing bung hole.

He said bung hole

I just went to Lowes and got a 5500W 240V All Stainless element for around $11.

acidrain said:

Got my brass base element... good news everybody, the base is a standard 1" straight pipe thread, and fits perfectly in the existing bung hole.

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I have never seen a brass element base before, interesting. It's kind of strange that the eBay seller just asks you to tell them what wattage you want after you purchase. What if they don't have what you want? Pretty good price though. Unfortunately the big detractor is although it won't rust you can't use pbw/oxiclean with brass which is what I and many others use for brewsystems. Also, his listing says its 1.25" threads and not 1". What's up with that?

I'm waiting for my regular 5500w camcorder ripple element to arrive. I plan to coat it with silicone and if it rusts use it as a backup element.

I sent the seller on eBay a message addressing some of these questions as I think it would be a good choice for a good portion of people.

I fully expected the threads to be wrong for my kettle, but was pleasantly surprised that they are standard sized.
Also, it's tiny... only about 8" long. It is definitely not a LWD element, but I'm not using it in a RIMS either.

acidrain said:

I fully expected the threads to be wrong for my kettle, but was pleasantly surprised that they are standard sized.
Also, it's tiny... only about 8" long. It is definitely not a LWD element, but I'm not using it in a RIMS either.

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Do you happen to know if the eBay seller offers a 5500watt version? I think this would be a good option for a HLT/HERMS coil setup which is where I need a replacement. I say that because you really don't have to clean a HLT tank with PBW/Oxiclean and scorching is not an issue when all you are heating is water in the HLT.

jflongo said:

I just went to Lowes and got a 5500W 240V All Stainless element for around $11.

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I doubt the $11.00 elements at LOWES are stainless, they are probably nickel or chrome plated.

Scut_Monkey said:

Do you happen to know if the eBay seller offers a 5500watt version? I think this would be a good option for a HLT/HERMS coil setup which is where I need a replacement. I say that because you really don't have to clean a HLT tank with PBW/Oxiclean and scorching is not an issue when all you are heating is water in the HLT.

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Why not go with the 6000 watt?

kenh said:

I doubt the $11.00 elements at LOWES are stainless, they are probably nickel or chrome plated.

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You are correct I just looked it up. Also, the sticker at the store said 5500W, but I look it up online and it says 4500W in the title, and 3500W in the details, very confusing.

Utilitech Water Heater Element 4500W Screw
Constructed of zinc-plated copper
3500-watts and 240-volts

http://www.lowes.com/pd_362344-135-...44&UserSearch=362344&productId=3693204&rpp=32

acidrain said:

Why not go with the 6000 watt?

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they require heavier wiring and draw more power... for 10 gallon batches 5500 is plenty... hell I use 4500w and they are plenty fast enough.