Opinions needed - Jet Burners - Spacing - etc.

So, I have been working on my brew sculpture as of late and have come to the point where its time to do some plumbing with my gas system (propane). I have been looking rather hard at what type of burners to use and I have pretty much settled on using either 3 - 23 tip jet burners. They are 60,000 to 160,000 btu rating or 32 - tip ones with the same btu output. Im sure that most will answer that the 32 tips will be better, more fire, faster boils and so on. I get this but I was wondering has anyone used the 23 tip ones and have they been adequate for your needs? Obviously if I can get away with the 23's they would be a little cheaper and possibly more efficient for my needs.

The setup to date is using 3 - 20 gallon kettles, hlt, mt, & bk gravity fed. I will probably be doing 10 gallon batches for the most part with the occasional 5 & 15. The most important thing at this point is: What spacing are you guys using in between the burners and your kettles? I am almost inclined to do an adjustable setup on my burners but that will take a lot more time yada yada.

The next inquiry is about regulation - I have been looking into various low pressure regulators for the application and I am looking for one that has good adjustment properties, pre-plumbed so to speak with about 2 foot of line already so I dont have to take additional time or worry about chasing down fitting leaks and so forth.

So with all that being said, Im hoping to hear some great input! Looks like it will be a great weekend to grab a couple of cold homebrews with your buds, sit back, relax and let fall take over!

IMO, I would avoid the multi-jet burners altogether. The are designed to be operated at WOT. They have no means to adjust the air/fuel ratio. The large 32 jet versions are way overkill. JMO, nothing more. There are much better options available.

WOT?

WOT Web of Trust
WoT War on Terror
WOT Wheel Of Time
WOT Waste of Time
WoT The Wheel of Time
WOT Wide Open Throttle
WoT Way of Thinking
WOT Way Off Topic
WOT Women on Top
WoT Wall of Text
WOT Women-Only Training
WOT Work Order Ticket

mredge73 said:

WOT?

WOT Web of Trust
WoT War on Terror
WOT Wheel Of Time
WOT Waste of Time
WoT The Wheel of Time
WOT Wide Open Throttle
WoT Way of Thinking
WOT Way Off Topic
WOT Women on Top
WoT Wall of Text
WOT Women-Only Training
WOT Work Order Ticket

Click to expand...

See above!

I use the 10 tip jet burners on my 20 gallon kettles. They work very well for me. I'm on NG, so a bit less BTU output than the propane versions. For strike water, I go from 75 to 160 in 30 minutes. For the boil, I start the burner after about 3-4 gallons are collected from fly sparging, so I don't know the exact time for getting to a boil when I'm collecting 14 or so gallons. I average 2.4 to 2.6 degrees rise per minute.

The 32 tip ones would be extremely overkill for 20G kettles. Even the 23 tip ones may be overkill. Many people have ended up removing some of the tips and putting bolts in there to lower the output of them. That's why I like the 10 tip ones. I have no issues throttling mine back. For my mash tun, I have it on high when I heat strike water, then I turn it down so that as it fires on/off to keep the mash at temp, it isn't hitting it with such high output.

The jet burners are loud!

I'm in the midst of building a single-tier setup. I was thinking a 23-tip burner would be good for the hot liquor tank, no?

Is it the banjo burners that can be adjusted? I'm going to be using natural gas.

Interesting perspectives, I thought I spied jet burners on some of the brutus 10 builds but maybe not. Either way I'm looking at cost effectiveness and propane usage as well if that helps. Also any idea about spacing from kettle bottoms?

Check out the link to my build thread (in my sig). You can see the distance from the kettles with my 10 tip burners.

I wouldn't say the jet burners cannot be adjusted, but they can really only be adjusted from about 50 or 60% to 100%. They don't operate down low.

On the plus side, I like the smaller size of them and I think they are easy to mount as you can use your plumbing as the mounting apparatus.

Catt, you said there were some better options available, what do you suggest? JonW done and done, nice setup!

hittenz said:

Catt, you said there were some better options available, what do you suggest? JonW done and done, nice setup!

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A 6" ring type burner casting like this one would be my pick:

http://www.agrisupply.com/burner-cast-low-presure-multi-hole-/p/40282/cn/5400000/

The burner shown is supplied with a low pressure orifice, but it can also be operated as a high pressure burner, a la SQ-14, using a high pressure orifice and regulator. An adjustable (0-10) psi regulator works very well with these burners.

The key feature difference between the multi-tip burners and any of the other popular cast units is the ability to dial in the air/fuel mixture. The reason the multi-tips are pretty narrow in their range of use is the fact that the air intake is fixed. The other issue is that the air intake is 2" away from where the flame is. There's a reason car exhausts are not routed to the front grill near the air cleaner.

So now I am torn between the low pressure multi hole burners 5-6" and the nice 10" high pressure banjo burners. Agrisupply has good prices on both (Thanks Catt!) and it is close by to the house so I might hit that up. It would be nice to go with the low pressure 6" ones because the regulators are cheap as well and as a package you are only looking at about $26.00 (with no additional plumbing I might add) where as you would be looking at about $55.00 or so with the banjo and a decent high pressure regulator (that should probably be hardlined). When you multiply it by 3 there ends up being a pretty good difference in price.

I don't know which way to lean but for around $90 (includingblack iron) more I feel like may be better in the long run but I hate wasting propane if I dont have to.

I bought the 23 tip jet burners. I ended up plugging about half of the holes and making it 11 tip. It was too much output otherwise. If I was using propane I would probably go banjo instead of jet burners just because its WAY easier to adjust them. I can adjust from about 60% to 100%. Under 60% is soot city. Wish someone made a decently priced natural gas burner.

having tried the cast iron cone, low pressure 6" round, banjo, 10 tip and 23 tip...

for natural gas, 10 and 23 tip appear to be the best performers
for propane, all 3 work great, banjo is overkill for anything smaller than a keggle
always use an adjustable regulator - I use 0-50psig regulators

hittenz said:

So now I am torn between the low pressure multi hole burners 5-6" and the nice 10" high pressure banjo burners. Agrisupply has good prices on both (Thanks Catt!) and it is close by to the house so I might hit that up. It would be nice to go with the low pressure 6" ones because the regulators are cheap as well and as a package you are only looking at about $26.00 (with no additional plumbing I might add) where as you would be looking at about $55.00 or so with the banjo and a decent high pressure regulator (that should probably be hardlined). When you multiply it by 3 there ends up being a pretty good difference in price.

I don't know which way to lean but for around $90 (includingblack iron) more I feel like may be better in the long run but I hate wasting propane if I dont have to.

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I mentioned it in a previous post, but here it is again. You can run the low pressure 6" ring type burner on high pressure propane, but you must use a high pressure orifice to do so. The replacement orifice is not an expensive item. You will also need a high pressure or variable pressure regulator. A 0-10 psi adjustable will work very well with that burner.

This adjustable regulator/hose/HP orifice would be my pick to use with the 6" ring type burner: http://www.bayouclassiccookware.com/Stainless-Steel-10-PSI-Propane-Regulator-Kit-M5HPR

Keep in mind that the orifice is an integral part of the hose assembly on the one shown in that link. Other versions have a separate hose/orifice configuration. You will have to decide which way to go on that depending on how you want to set up your burners. You may find better pricing if you shop around a bit. Agri-Supply has only a limited selection of regulators etc, so you will probably have to look elsewhere for the separate HP orifice.
Calling them can be very hit or miss depending on whom you get on the line.

Back to the question of spacing...
The spacing is determined on kettle diameter. The banjo burner has a 12" outer diameter, smaller than keggles which are aprox. 15.5"
My single tier stands are typically 18" x 54" for keggle setup

Catt22 said:

I mentioned it in a previous post, but here it is again. You can run the low pressure 6" ring type burner on high pressure propane, but you must use a high pressure orifice to do so. The replacement orifice is not an expensive item. You will also need a high pressure or variable pressure regulator. A 0-10 psi adjustable will work very well with that burner.

This adjustable regulator/hose/HP orifice would be my pick to use with the 6" ring type burner: http://www.bayouclassiccookware.com/Stainless-Steel-10-PSI-Propane-Regulator-Kit-M5HPR

Keep in mind that the orifice is an integral part of the hose assembly on the one shown in that link. Other versions have a separate hose/orifice configuration. You will have to decide which way to go on that depending on how you want to set up your burners. You may find better pricing if you shop around a bit. Agri-Supply has only a limited selection of regulators etc, so you will probably have to look elsewhere for the separate HP orifice.
Calling them can be very hit or miss depending on whom you get on the line.

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Agri Suppy does actually carry a unit that already has the regulator/hose Combo with a #58 orifice at the end which would perfectly match the 70,000 btu rating of the 6 inch multi hole that they offer http://www.agrisupply.com/product.asp?pn=32832&sid=&eid=
While it looks no where as nice as the bayou, I can get this rather quickly and save on shipping. I gotta tell you though, the braided look does it for me! Also in my hunt I came across this orifice chart that may be of some help located here: http://www.joppaglass.com/burner/highp_chart.html
Thanks for all the help guys, I'm off to the redneck heaven!

hittenz said:

Agri Suppy does actually carry a unit that already has the regulator/hose Combo with a #58 orifice at the end which would perfectly match the 70,000 btu rating of the 6 inch multi hole that they offer http://www.agrisupply.com/product.asp?pn=32832&sid=&eid=
While it looks no where as nice as the bayou, I can get this rather quickly and save on shipping. I gotta tell you though, the braided look does it for me! Also in my hunt I came across this orifice chart that may be of some help located here: http://www.joppaglass.com/burner/highp_chart.html
Thanks for all the help guys, I'm off to the redneck heaven!

Click to expand...

Beware that not all adjustable pressure regulators are the same. ie, some go from 0-5 psi, some 0-10 psi and others zero up to 60 psi. I would check the specs before ordering. The AgriSupply web site doesn't provide much information in that regard, so it would be worth a phone call before finalizing an order with them. Also, forget trying to match the btu rating, whatever it may be. The ratings are meaningless and the output has more to do with the regulator and orifice than anything else. IOW, you can probably far exceed the 70k rating with a high pressure reg and orifice.

I use the 20 tip jet burners and have never had an issue with them. Mine are NG and I use a simple ball valve to cut them down. I have a lot more spacing than others on here though. I found that the best spacing was about 12-14" from jet tip to kettle. I would buy them again in a second.

Beware that not all adjustable pressure regulators are the same. ie, some go from 0-5 psi, some 0-10 psi and others zero up to 60 psi. I would check the specs before ordering. The AgriSupply web site doesn't provide much information in that regard, so it would be worth a phone call before finalizing an order with them. Also, forget trying to match the btu rating, whatever it may be. The ratings are meaningless and the output has more to do with the regulator and orifice than anything else. IOW, you can probably far exceed the 70k rating with a high pressure reg and orifice.

Click to expand...

I am lucky enough to live about 15 miles from an Agri Supply so today I went up there and checked around. I ended up getting what I said in the last post, I got home hooked everything up with the supplied dampers and got a great balanced flame that was blue with just a little orange at the tips all the way up to probably around 18-20'' high so I feel good about it. For 3 high pressure regulators, hoses, orifices, burners, dampers it was $100 and change and it seems to work really well. I may post some pics later.

So here's the somewhat finished product. I still need to get a good tank to manifold hose from agrisupply but you get the idea. I ended up going high pressure with some banjo style burners under all levels and it ended up being very adjustable once I got the burners dialed in. They are all 20 gal. kettles and I have been able to do 15 gal. batches very carefully.