BIAB v. Traditional Mash Tun (Boom goes the dynamite!)

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Ridire

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I know this will spark a fight on here. I know this fight has probably happened a thousand times on here. But I don't care, I'm doing it anyway.

Of the brewers on here who have done multiple BIAB batches and multiple batches with a more traditional mash tun, have you noticed any material difference in the final product?

All other things equal, did you experience a higher quality beer from the tun than you got with the BIAB?




And let the squabbling begin...
 
I have done many batches of both. They both produce good beer. If it wasn't recorded in my notes; I couldn't tell whether I used biab or a traditional tun. Use whatever works best for you.
 
I have only done BIAB but my least 4 batches have been absolutely awesome.

I have had very good BIAB batches, too, I was just wondering from someone who has done both (more than once or twice) if there was a quality difference. I hate dealing with the bag, so I'm leaning towards buying a tun. But I can see why it takes a lot longer with the tun, so it's kind of a Catch 22.
 
I have had very good BIAB batches, too, I was just wondering from someone who has done both (more than once or twice) if there was a quality difference. I hate dealing with the bag, so I'm leaning towards buying a tun. But I can see why it takes a lot longer with the tun, so it's kind of a Catch 22.

A lot of people seem to have issues with the bag and make ladders and pulleys and such to suspend it. What I do is just lift it up, and slide a pizza pan between it and the kettle, then squeeze it with my kettle lid. Easy peasy.
 
I have had very good BIAB batches, too, I was just wondering from someone who has done both (more than once or twice) if there was a quality difference. I hate dealing with the bag, so I'm leaning towards buying a tun. But I can see why it takes a lot longer with the tun, so it's kind of a Catch 22.

Definitely a Catch 22. My brew sessions are usually 3.5 hours only and I am hampered by space so BIAB is the only way for me. I would bet that if there is any difference in quality that it would be minuscule. As I mentioned earlier, once I got my system down that my last batches have been really good and comparable to a lot of professional breweries in my opinion.
 
A lot of people seem to have issues with the bag and make ladders and pulleys and such to suspend it. What I do is just lift it up, and slide a pizza pan between it and the kettle, then squeeze it with my kettle lid. Easy peasy.

I thought squeezing grains in a bag releases unwanted tannins? Am I wrong on that?
 
I've batch sparged and BIAB multiple times, the only difference I've noticed is a 15-20% drop in efficiency. I haven't noticed a difference in the quality of the beer, but I haven't tried to brew the same recipe on both systems.
 
I have had very good BIAB batches, too, I was just wondering from someone who has done both (more than once or twice) if there was a quality difference. I hate dealing with the bag, so I'm leaning towards buying a tun. But I can see why it takes a lot longer with the tun, so it's kind of a Catch 22.

I've done both and far prefer BIAB. It saves a heck of a lot of time for me and the quality of my beers is excellent. I've found an easy system for dealing with BIAB and that's using a turkey fryer setup. Mine's a 42 quart pot (10.5 gallons) and it has an inner fry basket. I take a big BIAB grain bag and use metal binder clips to clip it inside the fry basket. Everything goes into that bag and I can pick it up and out of the pot very easily using the attached handle. I can pick it up, swish and swirl it around, dunk it a few times if I want to and then pull the entire fry basket out of it and rest it right on top of the pot to drain out by putting a hops spider underneath it. You could also use those perforated pizza pans that others suggest to do the same thing.

I thought squeezing grains in a bag releases unwanted tannins? Am I wrong on that?

It depends on the grains. The more roasted grains you use, the more risk for releasing tannins if you squeeze. I'll see about 0.075gal/lb water absorption when I squeeze grains and 0.125 gal/lb when I don't squeeze. Weather I do or not depends on the amount of roasted grains in the mash. If it's just a lot of 2 row, I squeeze. If it's a lot of specialty roasted grains, I don't squeeze.

I've batch sparged and BIAB multiple times, the only difference I've noticed is a 15-20% drop in efficiency. I haven't noticed a difference in the quality of the beer, but I haven't tried to brew the same recipe on both systems.

There's a few ways you can help combat that loss. The first is to definitely squeeze those base malt grains if you can. The second is to ask for a double grind at your LHBS. Since BIAB brewing doesn't typically deal with a sparging process, you really want your grains ground up well. Adding 10% extra to your grain bill can also help you hit your targets. For example, I brewed up a RIS last weekend with a Beersmith projected OG of 1.096 and it hit 1.110, which changed the efficiency from 75% to 90%!!!
 
I thought squeezing grains in a bag releases unwanted tannins? Am I wrong on that?

Tannin extraction from grains is a function of pH and temperature. Keep the pH below 6 and the temps below 170° F and you won't have to worry about tannin extraction from the grains.
 
A lot of people seem to have issues with the bag and make ladders and pulleys and such to suspend it. What I do is just lift it up, and slide a pizza pan between it and the kettle, then squeeze it with my kettle lid. Easy peasy.

I tried that and my pizza pan bent. It might be my barbarian strength, however... but when I want to get everything out of the bag, I'll knead the grain with my hands through the voile... and when that stops helping, I stick it inside my old 5-gal brewkettle and push down with my 3.5-gallon sparge water kettle.
 
I have had very good BIAB batches, too, I was just wondering from someone who has done both (more than once or twice) if there was a quality difference. I hate dealing with the bag, so I'm leaning towards buying a tun. But I can see why it takes a lot longer with the tun, so it's kind of a Catch 22.
I have not noticed a difference in quality. I hated dealing with the bag too (messy). I tried several methods noted on the forums, I just prefer the mash tun. It doesn't really take me much longer. I had an old cooler laying around; purchased a ball valve & screen, not that expensive either.
 
I thought squeezing grains in a bag releases unwanted tannins? Am I wrong on that?

You wrong on tannins part pal, its one of these myths that still gets spread around and has no evidence in real world what so ever. I used to BIAB for 2.5 years before moved to mash tun and have about 20 medals from competitions in US and Canada from this year (all BIAB). Not one score sheet mentions tannins and I squeeze bejesus out of my bag all to the last drop. Tannins are more pH related issue. In fact you are more vulnerable to tannins extraction with mash tun design because you sparge a lot more.
 
I dont really see the difference at all. BIAB all your grain is in a bag vs. a mashtun all your grain is in mashtun of some type. BIAB uses the bag itself as a filter vs. a mashtun has some sort of manifold (false bottom, screen, bazooka tube) to filter. You can use both for "no sparge" brewing so there is no difference when they are both used that way. The only time I use the no sparge technique in on a first runnings beer during a partigyle.
 
I have brewed both ways and tasted the brews of others both ways. They both make great beer.

Then again, extract and steeping grains does to- and lots of folks poopoo that around here.

The bottom line is that if your method works for your schedule, your wallet, and your taste buds, then go with it.
 
I tried that and my pizza pan bent. It might be my barbarian strength, however... but when I want to get everything out of the bag, I'll knead the grain with my hands through the voile... and when that stops helping, I stick it inside my old 5-gal brewkettle and push down with my 3.5-gallon sparge water kettle.

I like to use a Weber BBQ grill grate. You can get them from big box stores for about $10. They're stainless and clean very easily. I squeeze the wort out of it then let the rest drip out while I bring the wort up to a boil.

IMG_1808.JPG


You can smash on that thing (which I do with the lid of my kettle) and it won't go anywhere. Plus the lid of your kettle keeps you from burning your fingers too much. Afterwards I just move it to a bucket and deal with it once the boil is going.

As for the topic, I was borrowing a mash tun cooler before I went to BIAB and I haven't really noticed a difference in quality. Both make good beers. I do like the simplicity of BIAB, though, because the equipment investments are lower.

I do notice more trub going into the fermenter, though. Which to me isn't a concern as I cold crash, just one of those differences is all.
 
I honestly don't think you can say one method is better than the other, or especially that one produces better beer than the other. Whether or not one is better is not just a matter of opinion but also depends on one's personal situation in terms of how much space you have, etc. If you don't have much space it's hard not to argue that BIAB is a better method, wheareas if you have lots of space to spare and/or are super concerned about getting the best efficiency or not spending an extra $1 or $2 on grain then it's really hard to argue that fly sparging isn't a better method.

And as to which one produces better beer is entirely dependent on how well practiced you are at your particular system. It's just two different ways to get sugar out of the grain. Once those sugars have been extracted from the grains it makes no difference what system was used to do it. It matters HOW that system was used (not over sparging, keeping the PH at the desired levels, hitting your desired mash temp, etc.) Used correctly each system would produce virtually identical wort.
 
I have done both and got great results from both. It is really just a matter of equipment, space, time, and preference. Really the only reason I started using a mash tun is because I started doing 10 gallon batches and didn't want to mess with a grain bag that big....
 
I've done both I find they come the same. I find the bag is easier to clean for me dump the grain bag out in the compost turning the bag inside out hang it on the line spray with the hose done.
 
I have done both and have not been able to detect any difference I would attribute to the process.

I have only done 3 gallon BIAB and don't think I want to do bigger. I much prefer using my 3 tier HLT, tun, BK system. I dislike messing with the hot, sticky, heavy bag of spent grains. I find it so much easier to clean the additional equipment, than the strainer bag. I guess I could just toss it and add it as an expense though.
 
I do BIAB because it was the cheap and easy way for me to get into all grain. Now I don't want to change because I want to continue dialing in my system so I can get more consistent with my brewing.
 
I know this will spark a fight on here. I know this fight has probably happened a thousand times on here. But I don't care, I'm doing it anyway.

Of the brewers on here who have done multiple BIAB batches and multiple batches with a more traditional mash tun, have you noticed any material difference in the final product?

All other things equal, did you experience a higher quality beer from the tun than you got with the BIAB?




And let the squabbling begin...

Here in Australia BIAB is very popular. I'm a 3v brewer but only because when I started, nobody was brewing BIAB. I've tried plenty of beers brewed BIAB and they are no better or worse than any other method. Different steps to the same destination
 
I like to use a Weber BBQ grill grate. You can get them from big box stores for about $10. They're stainless and clean very easily. I squeeze the wort out of it then let the rest drip out while I bring the wort up to a boil.

Thanks for the tip! I'm going to have to pick one of those up. I have been meaning to get a dedicated pizza pan (I've been using one that actually cooks pizza too, the horror!) with larger holes than the one I have. Sometimes the holes don't let the wort drain fast enough when you really squeeze on it.
 
I've brewed both and prefer my Mash Tun for full sized batches, but the BIAB works fine for smaller batches, I just dislike messing with the bag for 5 gallon batches. The Mash Tun works great and when I'm done I just dump and hose out.
 
I have done quite a lot of both. they both work and make decent beer, I dont have any quantitative side by side data though. I think there might be a difference when you get into very clean light lagers (because of the extra grain matter / hot break in the biol with BIAB), but fermentation temp and pitching rates are an area that most brewers could make a bigger improvement in their beers.

My preference is to use a regular mash tun, because it is less messy may take 30 seconds more cleaning, but in my experience there is really no difference in clean up time, you can go dump a mashtun just as easily as a bag then rinse it out and you are done. also I am not a fan of how much you loose to trub with BIAB, and how hard it is to keep trub out of the fermenter (I reuse yeast so having trub in the fermenter isnt good for that).

chickens
 
I just brewed a Hefe today. I have mash tun but for wheat beer I prefer BIAB all the way! Lot more sediment in kettle. Quicker brew day, I was chilled by noon! Taste wise seems to be no difference. If you plan to reuse yeast may be not the best method. I prefer my mash tun for temperature stability factors.
 
I've done both. Most recently I have been doing no sparge parti-gyle brewing with my traditional mash tun. This has been my biggest improvement in over all flavor / quality.
 
It may have been my process, but i feel like the beers ive done since switching to a cooler mash tun vs biab have cleared a little faster. As to the quality of taste, I haven't noticed much if any difference
 
So,does the grain know it's going through extraction in a bag rather than a cooler/MLT? I think not...So there you have it.
 
I've done a bunch of both. 30 or so BIAB and a ton of MT single sparge. For BIAB I started holding back a gallon or two of water heated to 180 and dunk the bag in that to help rinse the grains. It upped my OG by a couple points. The crush is a big part of BIAB also. Crush the hell out of em!

Like others have said, I just got tired of wrestling with the bag so I went with the MT.

Other than the heavy dripping bag, and a slight hit in OG, BIAB works just as well as MT sparge.

If it's better quality your looking for, fermentation temp control made the biggest difference for me.
 
chickens4life said:
I have done quite a lot of both. they both work and make decent beer, I dont have any quantitative side by side data though. I think there might be a difference when you get into very clean light lagers (because of the extra grain matter / hot break in the biol with BIAB), but fermentation temp and pitching rates are an area that most brewers could make a bigger improvement in their beers. My preference is to use a regular mash tun, because it is less messy may take 30 seconds more cleaning, but in my experience there is really no difference in clean up time, you can go dump a mashtun just as easily as a bag then rinse it out and you are done. also I am not a fan of how much you loose to trub with BIAB, and how hard it is to keep trub out of the fermenter (I reuse yeast so having trub in the fermenter isnt good for that). chickens

Why does BIAB produce more trub?

And +1 on the Weber grill. Cheap and works great.
 
Why does BIAB produce more trub?

When you use a mash tun you can do a vorloff (sp?) that allows the grain bed to act kind of like a filter. That being said, I don't think its anything that a good cold crash plus fining agent and a couple weeks in a fridge won't clear up. That would probably be troublesome if you are yeast harvesting though.
 
seefish said:
When you use a mash tun you can do a vorloff (sp?) that allows the grain bed to act kind of like a filter. That being said, I don't think its anything that a good cold crash plus fining agent and a couple weeks in a fridge won't clear up. That would probably be troublesome if you are yeast harvesting though.

It's amazing what time in the cold will do. The problem is patience.
 
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