Anyone ever try doing BIAB in a keggle?
BIAB Brewing (with pics)
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fenners
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I do 5 gallon BIAB batches in my keggle. No worries about boil overs 
use a keggle here too.. have done 5 and 10 gallon batches (10 gallons of low gravity lawnmower beer)
Yep, just like mysticmead, both 5 and 10 gallon. If I do a high gravity 10 gallon beer, I use two grain bags and I leave a couple gallons out and sparge with a couple gallons at the end. 5 gallons works great, 10 is a bit more challenging but fine.
OldDirty
Well-Known Member
My first post and a few questions regarding this brewing method.
I did a few PM brews a few years back then stopped brewing for various reasons. I scored a 1/2 barrel a couple weeks ago and thought I'd get back into brewing. I cut the top off the barrel and made a keggle out of it. The rest of the equipment I have.
My question is regarding adjuncts like flaked corn, flaked wheat, etc. Would I be able to combine it in the bag with the rest of my grain bill or should I have it in a separate bag? Should I mill the flaked corn fine like the rest of my grains? I don't plan on doing this until my second or third batch but I want to get an idea of what to do with adjuncts when the time comes.
My first batch is going to be a simple SMaSH so I can get the feel of this method and my equipment.
Thanks to all who posted in this thread. You've made the process appear relatively easy and fun to do.
I did a few PM brews a few years back then stopped brewing for various reasons. I scored a 1/2 barrel a couple weeks ago and thought I'd get back into brewing. I cut the top off the barrel and made a keggle out of it. The rest of the equipment I have.
My question is regarding adjuncts like flaked corn, flaked wheat, etc. Would I be able to combine it in the bag with the rest of my grain bill or should I have it in a separate bag? Should I mill the flaked corn fine like the rest of my grains? I don't plan on doing this until my second or third batch but I want to get an idea of what to do with adjuncts when the time comes.
My first batch is going to be a simple SMaSH so I can get the feel of this method and my equipment.
Thanks to all who posted in this thread. You've made the process appear relatively easy and fun to do.
WileECoyote
Well-Known Member
I just wanted to say thanks to everyone in the thread for getting me into bag brewing. Just completed my second BIAB brew day yesterday and got 81% efficiency on a 1.100 monster DIPA. Cheers! 
OldDirty
Well-Known Member
add it all to the grain bag...
no need to mill flaked corn... it's flakes
Thanks! Maybe I'll try something a bit more difficult my next batch!
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
I just wanted to say thanks to everyone in the thread for getting me into bag brewing. Just completed my second BIAB brew day yesterday and got 81% efficiency on a 1.100 monster DIPA. Cheers!
I'll second this! I just did my 4th BIAB yesterday (NB's Black IPA). Since my first attempt which was a complete learning experience, I've hit around 80% efficiency in my last 3 batches!
I gotta say, I was kind of a skeptic about how much better AG brewing could be since I was making some pretty damn good beers with extracts, but I'm now sold on just how good AG brews can be and I am having even more fun in the brew process.
BIAB seems to be the best of both worlds. You get the quality of AG brewing but the time and expense isn't much more involved than extract brewing!
BIAB seems to be the best of both worlds. You get the quality of AG brewing but the time and expense isn't much more involved than extract brewing!
Ding ding ding! We have a winner.
Think before you start about how you're going to get your bag off the bottom of the kettle if you're heating up quickly (e.g. for your mashout). If you go slow it should be fine, but I prefer to stick something inert under there just for peace of mind. Or you could try to lift it, but you don't want to do that.
Be careful about getting a temperature different between the inside and outside of your bag if you have a very fine fabric. I have to stir/squish mine periodically while heating to get it to equalize and not just overheat the wort outside the bag. If your fabric is less fine than mine, it shouldn't be a problem.
Also, be prepared for the fact that your bag may not drain quickly if you have a very fine fabric/lots of sticky thick stuff (I know, so technical) in your grains. I was surprised and unprepared for just how slowly mine drained; it requires a LOT of squeezing with the fine voile that my bag is made from, so a bucket + colander/cooling rack/something hole-y is useful to be able to drain with, rather than having to try to hold it over your kettle.
YMMV, but just things I encountered when I did my first BIAB last month and wish someone had told me. It really is quite easy and works great.
Safa
Well-Known Member
SiriusStarr, thanks for the advice, Im contemplating my first BIAB too!
Do you have any idea how the fine-ness of your bag relates to that of a paint strainer (a'la'home-depot)? That is what I was planning on getting for my first go.
In the future if things get way out of hand (which I'm sure they will, AG seems to much better) I'll bust out the wallet for one of those custom sized BIAB bags.
Do you have any idea how the fine-ness of your bag relates to that of a paint strainer (a'la'home-depot)? That is what I was planning on getting for my first go.
In the future if things get way out of hand (which I'm sure they will, AG seems to much better) I'll bust out the wallet for one of those custom sized BIAB bags.
solbes
Well-Known Member
Paint strainer bags work fine for getting started. Especially if you don't know if this will be the way to go or not. I made 3-4 batches with the paint strainer bags, but added a voile type bag that I stitched together myself. I was getting between 1-1.25 gallons of yeast/trub with the paint strainers. After adding the voile bag, I'm back down to 0.5-0.8 gallons of yeast/trub (similar to extract). So I get another 6 pack of beer out of each batch or so. Not significant in the short term, but more so in the long term.
SiriusStarr said:
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
I use a steamer basket but that is mainly to make it easier to lift the grain bag out when I'm done with the mash. But I also use this underneath my steamer basket which came with my canner:
I just place it at the bottom of my kettle and then place my steamer basket on top of it and it seems to work pretty well. Wal Mart sells them on their own for like $4 bucks or something in the canning department. A colander/strainer would also work...
I just place it at the bottom of my kettle and then place my steamer basket on top of it and it seems to work pretty well. Wal Mart sells them on their own for like $4 bucks or something in the canning department. A colander/strainer would also work...
I use nothing under my bag. when I need to heat, I stir constantly. the bag doesn't get burned at all. But for peace of mind, a vegetable steamer in the bottom of the kettle works great
Someone did a test on this a while ago. Tied some leftover voile they had from making the bag directly to the 5500w element they were using and turned it up to 100% power for I think was 20 minutes with no burning.
My guess is that the voile is finer, but I haven't used a paint strainer. I know many others have to good effect, so you should be fine (and maybe have less of a draining issue). If you have access to a sewing machine, you can make a custom-sized bag very easily and cheaply. I made mine for <$10. Fabric is cheap.
As others have said and your own experience dictates, you should be fine without. As long as there is liquid between the kettle bottom and bag, there's no physical way you're going to heat it over 100 C, period, so as long as it doesn't somehow get smashed against the bottom of the pot, I don't think it could ever burn. I stirred constantly on my first batch while heating to keep anything from staying static against the bottom and it was fine. It also likely depends on whether you're using a gas burner or electric stove, since they're going to get to different maximum temperatures and have different severities of hotspots. I'm just paranoid so I worry unnecessarily about it; not saying it's a problem to avoid if you're starting out, but it's just something to make peace with before you start, rather than coming to the realization halfway through your mash and frantically gnawing at your nails for the next hour until you realize it's fine. I know, RDWHAHB, but it was my homemade bag; I didn't want to ruin it on the first mash. :cross:
If you want to be paranoid like me, either an unfolded vegetable steamer or rack as others have posted works great, since they allow a lot of water flow. I currently lack access to such things, however, so I used an inverted SS pot lid in my last batch which worked okay. The only thing there is since you get less flow, you may need to occasionally poke at it to circulate the water, so I'd only recommend it as a crutch if you don't have a colander/rack/steamer that would work better. Be certain that whatever you use doesn't have sharp metal feet that could scratch your kettle. Scratches are the enemy of good cleaning/sanitization.
I'd use a steamer myself, but the one I have has three very sharp metal feet that would be terrible on my kettle.
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
I pull it off with a 7.5 gallon kettle so you should be good with a 9 gallon kettle...
A 9 gallon kettle should be fine for all but the biggest beers...and for large beers a sparge benifits as well.
I have a 9 gallon kettle and do 15.5 lbs. with that much grain I do squeeze the crap out the bag and do a 1/2 gallon mini sparge. Never missed my OG after 30-ish batches. I routinely do 13 lbs with no extra work at all.
I wanted a10 gallon but got a deal on the 9 and haven't looked back. Would love to do 10 gallon batches but I'm just not set up for it.
I wanted a10 gallon but got a deal on the 9 and haven't looked back. Would love to do 10 gallon batches but I'm just not set up for it.
OldDirty
Well-Known Member
Brewed up my first AG using the BIAB technique. I couldn't have asked for a simpler method for brewing! I learned a couple of things in the process.
- Use a rather large bag! I have a large 15.5 gallon keggle but only a 5 gal paint strainer bag and it made for an interesting time keeping the grain properly mashed. My initial gravity was several points lower than expected because the grain was crowded. I added DME to make up the difference. I'll be picking up a voile' later today and fitting it to my keggle.
- When you thought you squeezed the bag enough, squeeze it again and again and again! I finally ended up with close to a gallon of wort after all that squeezing. I aimed for a finish of 5 gallons but ended up with just over 6 gallons. Thank G*d for a second primary bucket!
- watching cold break form can be entertaining. I expected to have a lot more break material but after 14 hours of sitting in the carboy it's settled nicely so far.
The only thing left to do is wait....
- Use a rather large bag! I have a large 15.5 gallon keggle but only a 5 gal paint strainer bag and it made for an interesting time keeping the grain properly mashed. My initial gravity was several points lower than expected because the grain was crowded. I added DME to make up the difference. I'll be picking up a voile' later today and fitting it to my keggle.
- When you thought you squeezed the bag enough, squeeze it again and again and again! I finally ended up with close to a gallon of wort after all that squeezing. I aimed for a finish of 5 gallons but ended up with just over 6 gallons. Thank G*d for a second primary bucket!
- watching cold break form can be entertaining. I expected to have a lot more break material but after 14 hours of sitting in the carboy it's settled nicely so far.
The only thing left to do is wait....
Brewed up my first AG using the BIAB technique. I couldn't have asked for a simpler method for brewing! I learned a couple of things in the process.
- Use a rather large bag! I have a large 15.5 gallon keggle but only a 5 gal paint strainer bag and it made for an interesting time keeping the grain properly mashed. My initial gravity was several points lower than expected because the grain was crowded. I added DME to make up the difference. I'll be picking up a voile' later today and fitting it to my keggle.
- When you thought you squeezed the bag enough, squeeze it again and again and again! I finally ended up with close to a gallon of wort after all that squeezing. I aimed for a finish of 5 gallons but ended up with just over 6 gallons. Thank G*d for a second primary bucket!
- watching cold break form can be entertaining. I expected to have a lot more break material but after 14 hours of sitting in the carboy it's settled nicely so far.
The only thing left to do is wait....
congrats on your first AG beer! now make sure there's a blow off tube attached to that rather full carboy.
This. My first and second BIAB cold break. They both packed down to nothing after a few days, but I was awfully disturbed at first.
I just realized I have a thermometer exactly like the one in your picture too, hmm.
snyklez
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So, total n00b questions, but I'd like to move from extract brewing to all grain or a biab variation, and this looks like a winner. But I'm trying to wrap my head around the whole thing. So I've got a 7.5g brew kettle. If I wanted to do a 5 gallon batch, could I use this method, then just top off with water to get 6g of wort, in which case I would then continue as normal (boil etc)? How much water would I have to mash with? And let's just say I had a 10g kettle, if you wanted to end up with a 5g batch, how much water do you brew with initially? Do you mash with 6.5g, to end up with maybe 6g of wort to then boil as normal? I'm sure the process is simple, but I'd like to picture it in my head before I move forward.
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
I BIAB with a 7.5 gal kettle and my first BIAB I was told I could do a 5 gal batch by topping off with water to get my desired amount of wort in the fermentor. Personally, I wasn't happy with my results. I've since gotten a 5 gal kettle that I use to sparge with. I mash in about 6 gal in my larger kettle and then sparge in about 2.5 gal in the smaller kettle. I then let the bag drain into a sanitized bucket after the sparge and squeeze it a little bit and then combine all of my liquids into my large kettle to about 7 gallons for my boil. I've done this 3 times and I've hit around 80% efficiency each time and I'm much more happy with the results than I got by topping off with water.
snyklez
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MMJfan said:
Interesting. Let's see if I'm getting this right. You mash in 6g, then transfer the grain bag to the smaller kettle and rinse the grain with 2.5g of water at mash temp? Is that basically just a second mash? Then, drain the bag into a bucket, then mix all those liquids into your large kettle at 7g. So, there's an extra 1.5g difference here, do you just toss that out? I suppose the entire 8.5g has a homogenous level of sugars, so that wouldn't be a problem.
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
Sorry, the smaller kettle is used for a sparge. I heat the water in the smaller kettle to 170F while the grains are mashing in the larger kettle. Once I've mashed for whaterver the recipe specifies (usually 60 minutes), I do a mashout by heating my large kettle up to 170F and letting it then sit for 10 minutes. I then transfer the grain bag to my smaller kettle for a 20 minute sparge.
As for the extra liquid, there usually isn't that much left. After draining, I do squeeze my grain bag a bit, but there is some liquid lost to absorbtion in the grains. And yes, I just dump whatever liquid I don't fit into my kettle for the boil.
I don't know if what I'm doing is 'technically' the correct way to do things, but my results would suggest that there isn't anything wrong with it either...
As for the extra liquid, there usually isn't that much left. After draining, I do squeeze my grain bag a bit, but there is some liquid lost to absorbtion in the grains. And yes, I just dump whatever liquid I don't fit into my kettle for the boil.
I don't know if what I'm doing is 'technically' the correct way to do things, but my results would suggest that there isn't anything wrong with it either...
The high efficiency of no-sparge BIAB is mostly attributable to the thin mash that comes with mashing with the full volume (on the order of 6 L / kg). So you could mash with a smaller volume and then top off, but you'd likely experience decreased efficiency. As others have said, you're probably going to want to sparge with the extra volume rather than just top it off. You can also consider not doing 5 gallon batches. I think many people limit themselves to pretty arbitrary batch sizes, so you could always do 4 gallons or 16 L or whatever will fit your equipment best.
As far as how much water to mash with, it's easiest to just use one of the many excellent brewing calculators out there. I personally use BrewTarget, which is free and open-source (since I run Linux), but there are many others out there. Any decent program should make it easy to do the necessary calculations. You'll also need to know (or guess) at your boil-off rate, which will of course depend on your equipment and how high your burner is set. It will most likely be on the order of 1 gallon / hr, so in that case if you were doing a 5 gallon batch you'd need 6 gallons (plus whatever you want to factor in for kettle/trub losses if you care) after your mash for an hour boil. Once you know your boil-off rate, you can input it into your software of choice and it will do the work for you, though. (Mines ~4 L / hr, FWIW.)
So how much water should I start with? I have a 10 gallon megapot that has a 17" diameter. I have an extra bucket which I'll use with a colander to get the remaining wort out of my bag, and will be re-adding that remaining wort back into my pot.
I've only done extracts so far and I've always started with around 6 gal and ended up with 5 in the fermenter. I'm assuming this would be about the same but I'm not sure with grain absorption...
Any help would be appreciated!
I've only done extracts so far and I've always started with around 6 gal and ended up with 5 in the fermenter. I'm assuming this would be about the same but I'm not sure with grain absorption...
Any help would be appreciated!
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