Sweet Stout Deception Cream Stout

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mgr_stl said:
Went to my LHBS today and picked up the following ingredients to make a 5 gallon batch of the Deception Cream Stout. Couldn't get everything exactly as listed on the first page of this thread, so I'd like to hear any input on how the changes to the recipe may impact the final product. Also, I've read through many of the 88 pages, but if anyone has suggestions that would result in the best final product possible I'm all ears. Planning on transferring from the 6.5 gallon primary carboy to a 5 gallon secondary carboy once the most vigorous fermentation is over. I'd like to age this several months (5 or so?) if you all agree that it would result in a better beer.

Any asterisked ingredient is different from the original extract recipe.

*3.0 lb Briess CBW Sparkling Amber Dry Extract [Recipe calls for 4.5 lb Amber Dry Extract - 53.76 %]
*3.0 lb Briess CBW Bavarian Wheat Dry Extract [Recipe calls for 1.5 lb Wheat Dry Extract (60% Wheat) - 16.37 %]
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L - 8.96 %
0.75 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) - 8.96 %
*0.50 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) - 5.97 % [My label reads "Muntons Roasted Barley, British, 500 L, unmalted", and I'm not sure if this is an exact match]
0.50 lb Lactose 5.97 % (Boil 10 min)

*0.75 oz Summit Hop Pellets - 16% alpha [Recipe calls for 0.75 oz German Magnum [13.40 % alpha] (60 min) - 27.0 IBU]

1.00 Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10 min)
*No Yeast Nutrient [Recipe calls for 1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5 min)]

*Wyeast 1028 [Recipe used Wyeast 1450 PC]

Will likely be brewing some evening this week, and any advice would be appreciated. I'm especially curious how you guys think the change to the extract amounts will affect the recipe.

The thing you said about secondary doesn't make a whole lot of sense
 
mgr_stl said:
Does a 1.5 L yeast starter (Wyeast 1028 smack pack) with 150 g (5.3 oz) of light DME sound reasonable for the 5 gallon extract recipe of this? I got the 1.5 L from Mr. Malty and the 150 g of DME from the "How to Make a Yeast Starter" illustration that was posted on HBT a while back.

I was hoping to use a smaller container for this; mine's only 1 L. If I'll need a bigger container for starters, would anyone have a recommendation for an affordable option? How's this 2L flask from Amazon look? I'd like to spend less if possible, but don't want to skimp and end up with a low-quality one that I'll have to replace.

i use a one gallon growler, works great and is cheep to buy
 
I wouldnt mess with a good recipe. I dont think making this recipe more alcoholic and high hop is going to make it better. But then i like my beers to be drinkable. I dont really get the imperial side of things.
 
The thing you said about secondary doesn't make a whole lot of sense

What thing I said about using a secondary doesn't make sense? Are you anti-secondary in general or was there something particular about my process you disagreed with?
 
hulkavitch said:
I wouldnt mess with a good recipe. I dont think making this recipe more alcoholic and high hop is going to make it better. But then i like my beers to be drinkable. I dont really get the imperial side of things.

I agree also, I want my beer drinkable. I thought by making this recipe into a "double", it would a fun way to try my hand at an Imperial Stout. I too think that sometimes the "imperial" side of things is a little out of hand (especially with IIPAs). I guess it was going to be my attempt at an homage to this recipe.

mike_in_ak said:
Well if its good more must be better

This is why sometimes I drink a six pack vs. just two. LOL
 
Hawaiibboy said:
Now a few things came up though when I was thinking about this:

Should I really up all the grain? Or should I just up the 2row to get 1.090?
I've never done a "double" of an existing recipe, so any help with this endeavor would be helpful!

If I were to do what you are trying to do I would put the recipe in Beersmith and then use the specific gravity bar to raise the gravity. It will adjust to your desired gravity and increases all of the grains by an equal percentage. i would do the same with the desired IBUs. Thats what I would do but I really dont have experience with imperials and I probably am not the person to give you advise.
 
hulkavitch said:
If I were to do what you are trying to do I would put the recipe in Beersmith and then use the specific gravity bar to raise the gravity. It will adjust to your desired gravity and increases all of the grains by an equal percentage. i would do the same with the desired IBUs. Thats what I would do but I really dont have experience with imperials and I probably am not the person to give you advise.

While you may think you are not the person to give the advice regarding this, that is essentially what a few other people I have talked to have said. It seems like that is what I might be doing! Thanks!
 
Cracking my first Deception Stout (extract recipe). Really good despite being really young. My pour was a little too careful and there was little head, but good lacing. Roastiness and coffee with a hint of chocolate; it's a sweet stout but definitely not cloyingly so. This is going to age well. Can't wait to have my mind blown when I have one of these in the dead of winter.

Deception Stout 001.jpg
 
What thing I said about using a secondary doesn't make sense? Are you anti-secondary in general or was there something particular about my process you disagreed with?

It makes sense to me. That being said, I didn't secondary this since I didn't see a need to (no dry hop, no additions, etc.) I just kept it in primary for five weeks. Unless you need your primary for another batch, there really is no reason to move this beer over to a secondary.

I secondary almost all my brews but this one turned out awesome just sitting on the cake for as long as it did.
 
My take on this:
mgr_stl said:
Went to my LHBS today and picked up the following ingredients to make a 5 gallon batch of the Deception Cream Stout. Couldn't get everything exactly as listed on the first page of this thread, so I'd like to hear any input on how the changes to the recipe may impact the final product. Also, I've read through many of the 88 pages, but if anyone has suggestions that would result in the best final product possible I'm all ears. Planning on transferring from the 6.5 gallon primary carboy to a 5 gallon secondary carboy once the most vigorous fermentation is over. I'd like to age this several months (5 or so?) if you all agree that it would result in a better beer.

Any asterisked ingredient is different from the original extract recipe.

*3.0 lb Briess CBW Sparkling Amber Dry Extract [Recipe calls for 4.5 lb Amber Dry Extract - 53.76 %]
*3.0 lb Briess CBW Bavarian Wheat Dry Extract [Recipe calls for 1.5 lb Wheat Dry Extract (60% Wheat) - 16.37 %]
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L - 8.96 %
0.75 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) - 8.96 %
*0.50 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) - 5.97 % [My label reads "Muntons Roasted Barley, British, 500 L, unmalted", and I'm not sure if this is an exact match]
0.50 lb Lactose 5.97 % (Boil 10 min)

*0.75 oz Summit Hop Pellets - 16% alpha [Recipe calls for 0.75 oz German Magnum [13.40 % alpha] (60 min) - 27.0 IBU]

1.00 Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10 min)
*No Yeast Nutrient [Recipe calls for 1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5 min)]

*Wyeast 1028 [Recipe used Wyeast 1450 PC]

Will likely be brewing some evening this week, and any advice would be appreciated. I'm especially curious how you guys think the change to the extract amounts will affect the recipe.

Malts: You aren't really changing too much of the recipe. You are really only changing the base malts of the recipe and leaving the specialty grains in-tact. You might change how the mouthfeel and general body of the beer but for most part you are going to have close to the same thing. No matter what though you'll end up with a sweet stout.

As for he hops: you will get a bit more IBUs using .75ozs of 16%AAU hops so you could scale that down some to try to equal the amount of IBUs from .75oz of 13.4%AAU. The hop selection is not going to matter so much, so long as you are using a good, clean bittering hop and only add it at 60min.

Yeast: yeast in a recipe like this is key. The yeast is going to determine more of the flavor profile than anything else. As the OP said 1028 would be a choice of theirs. That should be fine for this recipe.

If you wanted to try to get it closer to the original, up your Amber DME to 4.5lbs and drop your Wheat DME to 1.5. If you only do one of these, I'd say drop the wheat some. Equal parts Amber + Wheat is the base for a wheat beer, but in this you are looking for the more malty side of things so the wheat might not help with that. IMO.

Cathedral said:
It makes sense to me. That being said, I didn't secondary this since I didn't see a need to (no dry hop, no additions, etc.) I just kept it in primary for five weeks. Unless you need your primary for another batch, there really is no reason to move this beer over to a secondary.

I secondary almost all my brews but this one turned out awesome just sitting on the cake for as long as it did.

I agree here. Secondary for this beer isn't necessary if you are going to be keeping it in a fermenter for under 2 months. If you want to go beyond three months though I would try to get it off of the yeast into a secondary with very little to no headspace. This not only frees up your fermenter but also helps to reduce the off flavors from extended contact with yeast.

My suggestion: primary 6 weeks, then bottle age it for the remaining 4.5 months mgr_stl.
 
Ok guys brewing this up when I get the yeast, maybe in a week or so. Scaled the recipe up to 5.5 gallons, and to match my average efficiency ~65%. Upped the bittering charge just a tad. Also added some flaked oats for some additional mouthfeel/body. Plan on having it in primary for about 4 weeks, then secondary on 8oz of nibs and a vanilla bean for a week. Cant wait for this one! :mug:

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Deception Stout
Brewer: Craig and Lauren
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Stout
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.04 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.50 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.10 gal
Estimated OG: 1.061 SG
Estimated Color: 34.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 42.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 74.4 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
0.28 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 9 -
8 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 57.1 %
1 lbs 12.0 oz White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 2 12.5 %
1 lbs 1.2 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.7 %
12.9 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.8 %
12.9 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 6 5.8 %
1.10 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5.0 mins) Other 10 -
1.00 oz Magnum [14.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 42.8 IBUs
9.0 oz Milk Sugar (Lactose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 7 4.0 %
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 4 7.1 %
2.0 pkg Irish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1084) [124.21 ml Yeast 11 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 14 lbs 0.1 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 4.20 gal of water at 163.7 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (1.06gal, 3.64gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
------
primary for 4 weeks, secondary for 1 week on 8oz cacao nibs/ 1 vanilla bean soaked in whisky

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Brewed this today as my second all grain recipe. Everything went well, efficiency was great, ended with an OG of 1.068 for a 5.5 Gallon batch...but, I just realized that I used 1 lbs of lactose instead of 0.5!

I'm not really a fan of sweet stuff, I was more looking forward to the coffee/roasty flavor and aroma. The wort did seem pretty sweet, like molasses, but I figured it would die down during fermentation.

Did I screw myself? How much of a difference will the extra lactose make?

PS. I also had used a full oz of Northern Brewer (on purpose) which brought it to 36 IBU instead of 27 (the original recipe). Maybe the extra bitterness will help out?
 
lactose isnt so much for residual sweetness as it is for body and mouthfeel. Taste a little bit of it, you wont find it to be very sweet at all. The wort is sweet cause its wort...thats how it is supposed to be.
 
another thing, most milk stouts call for a pound. I did mine with a pound and it was great. just remember this beer takes time to come in.
 
lactose isnt so much for residual sweetness as it is for body and mouthfeel. Taste a little bit of it, you wont find it to be very sweet at all. The wort is sweet cause its wort...thats how it is supposed to be.

Lactose is a sugar that doesn't ferment out, so yes while it does at body, it does add to the sweet/maltyness of the final product. Because there remains a higher content of sugar that hasn't been converted. Compare a dry stout with no lactose to a sweet/milk stout and u'll know why they call it sweet and not dry.

Also "sweetness" is palette specific. Thats why we use iodine to check for starch conversions of wort. Someone may find something much sweeter then someone else.

For Brew-Dog, i agree with Bleme, try adding some coffee, that will help balance some of the sweetness if its not to ur liking.
 
yeah i already knew this. i am just saying to me it doesnt really add that much sweetness. It is a sugar found in milk...i dont find milk to be all that sweet. and if you sample the actually lactose it is not that sweet to me either.
 
My take on this:

Malts: You aren't really changing too much of the recipe. You are really only changing the base malts of the recipe and leaving the specialty grains in-tact. You might change how the mouthfeel and general body of the beer but for most part you are going to have close to the same thing. No matter what though you'll end up with a sweet stout.

As for he hops: you will get a bit more IBUs using .75ozs of 16%AAU hops so you could scale that down some to try to equal the amount of IBUs from .75oz of 13.4%AAU. The hop selection is not going to matter so much, so long as you are using a good, clean bittering hop and only add it at 60min.

Yeast: yeast in a recipe like this is key. The yeast is going to determine more of the flavor profile than anything else. As the OP said 1028 would be a choice of theirs. That should be fine for this recipe.

If you wanted to try to get it closer to the original, up your Amber DME to 4.5lbs and drop your Wheat DME to 1.5. If you only do one of these, I'd say drop the wheat some. Equal parts Amber + Wheat is the base for a wheat beer, but in this you are looking for the more malty side of things so the wheat might not help with that. IMO.

I agree here. Secondary for this beer isn't necessary if you are going to be keeping it in a fermenter for under 2 months. If you want to go beyond three months though I would try to get it off of the yeast into a secondary with very little to no headspace. This not only frees up your fermenter but also helps to reduce the off flavors from extended contact with yeast.

My suggestion: primary 6 weeks, then bottle age it for the remaining 4.5 months mgr_stl.

Thanks for the feedback.

Brewed Thursday evening.

The change to the 50/50 blend of the extracts was based on the size bags my LHBS had.

Did end up scaling back the summit hops to 0.5 oz.

Pitched at about 11:30 pm and had the start of a kraussen when I checked before 8:00 am the next morning. Guess the "starter" is aptly named.

Fermenting in a 68 degree basement in a swamp cooler, and from my measurements the beer is 67-68 degrees. Had to put on a blowoff tube about 24 hours after pitching because the kraussen had entered the airlock. 5 gallon batch in a 6.5 gallon carboy.
 
The extra bitterness will help. You might also consider adding some cocoa nibs and/or coffee for additional bitterness.

lactose isnt so much for residual sweetness as it is for body and mouthfeel. Taste a little bit of it, you wont find it to be very sweet at all. The wort is sweet cause its wort...thats how it is supposed to be.

For Brew-Dog, i agree with Bleme, try adding some coffee, that will help balance some of the sweetness if its not to ur liking.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. It's bubbling away right now, just added a blowoff because it's getting dangerously close to the top of the carboy.

I'll take a sample in a few weeks, if it's too sweet (for me), I'll look into adding some coffee.
 
mgr_stl said:
Thanks for the feedback.

Brewed Thursday evening.

The change to the 50/50 blend of the extracts was based on the size bags my LHBS had.

Did end up scaling back the summit hops to 0.5 oz.

Pitched at about 11:30 pm and had the start of a kraussen when I checked before 8:00 am the next morning. Guess the "starter" is aptly named.

Fermenting in a 68 degree basement in a swamp cooler, and from my measurements the beer is 67-68 degrees. Had to put on a blowoff tube about 24 hours after pitching because the kraussen had entered the airlock. 5 gallon batch in a 6.5 gallon carboy.

Glad to hear things went smoothly and that those yeasties are off to a great start! Do keep us informed of your progress and results! I'd love to hear how the 50/50 DME situation pans out.

I'll be brewing my own interpretation on this recipe tomorrow!
 
Just had another Deception after a month in the bottle. I'll jump in with another vote to put a full pound of lactose in instead of the 0.5 lb indicated in the recipe - it is very good but a tad thin. The lactose doesn't really make it sweet so much as make it "creamy".

Other than that I wouldn't change anything else - it is excellent and is aging nicely.
 
Just bought the all grain stuff to try this one out. Not sure on my yeast yet got a pack of dry yeast or going to try PAC man harvest.
 
I went a little crazy and put oak chips in the secondary, has anyone done this w this recipe. I bottled last Thursday and cracked one today it's a little "woody" does it go away w time?
 
mrjaked said:
I went a little crazy and put oak chips in the secondary, has anyone done this w this recipe. I bottled last Thursday and cracked one today it's a little "woody" does it go away w time?

From what I know oak will mellow with time. Besides that you only bottled this last Thursday so it probably needs more time to really let all the flavors mellow. How long was primary and secondary?

My plans for my own adapted version uses a 30 day primary followed by a two month minimum bottle conditioning time and that is with out any oak chips or anything else added. I'd assume yours could benefit from an extended bottle aging as well.

I have only used oak chips once before, so if someone could correct me if I'm wrong that would be helpful.
 
I just finished up brewing this a few minutes ago. I say a version because I made a couple substitutions-
1. Used maris otter base malt
2. Split the chocolate malt to 2/3 regular chocolate and 1/3 pale chocolate malt
3. Galena hops for bittering
4. Pitched 1056

Also, my efficiency has been going up lately as I have gotten back into the swing of things. I planned for 65% and hit 69%. As a result, I ended up with 1.068 OG. My anticipated bitterness is 40IBU, Color 33 SRM (taking into account efficiency)

Eager to see how it turns out. Thanks for the recipe!:)
 
Bottled the extract recipe today after 5.5 weeks in primary. Tasted good, but measured a 1.2 fg. A bit high, no? Hopefully it's just a bad reading.

Put a plastic bag over top the bottles just in case more fermentation goes on and causes bombs.
 
Just the stout i am looking for, will brew very soon.
Being new to the game, i noticed that you carbinated @ 2 volumes, Kegging i presume, so how would that equate to bottled priming suger over 5 gals?
 
NCBeernut said:
I brewed this with extract, so the extract version is the real thing. The AG conversion should be dead on. Both are included. I used Wyeast 1450 PC - Denny's Favorite 50. This is a summer seasonal strain, originally the discontinued BrewTek CL-50, made famous by Denny Conn. Wyeast suggests 1056 as a good substitute, but I would use Wyeast 1028 or 1084. Mine finished out at 1.020 with Denny's - just a tad higher than it is supposed to.

Coffee and chocolate hit you up front intermingled with smooth caramel flavors that become noticeable mid-palate. Nice roasty finish rounds it out. Balanced and not cloying at all, but obviously leaning slightly to the sweeter side. Very smooth and creamy. You would think at least a little coffee or chocolate is actually used in this brew, and that is where it gets the name - Deception.

Brew it. Seriously. Do it. You will not be disappointed. It will be one of the best stouts you have had.

Extract:

4.50 lb Amber Dry Extract - 53.76 %
1.5 lb Wheat Dry Extract (60% Wheat) - 16.37 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L - 8.96 %
0.75 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) - 8.96 %
0.50 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) - 5.97 %
0.50 lb Lactose 5.97 % (Boil 10 min)

0.75 oz German Magnum [13.40 %] (60 min) - 27.0 IBU

1.00 Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10 min)
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5 min)

All-Grain (assuming 75% efficiency):

6.5 or 7 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
1.5 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM)
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt 60L
0.75 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Lactose (Boil 10 min)

0.75 oz German Magnum [13.40 %] (60 min) - 27.0 IBU

1.00 Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10 min)
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5 min)

Mash 60 min @ 152

Ferment 1 month @ 67 degrees F
I carbonated 2 volumes, but I suppose you could go higher

Enjoy!

I'm a new brewer, have brewed two 5 gallon batches so far, a golden ale and a Belgian wit. I'm looking to give this recipe a try! Could someone give me instructions on how to brew the extract version of this recipe? Like minute additions of ingredients, when to boil, when to add ingredients, and anything else you can tell me that will help this turn out well! Also, do I steep the grains? At what temp?
 
Anybody get any "floaties" in their stouts when they chill them? I had one in the fridge for about a week, poured it, tasted great, except had some floaters in it. I've just cracked another from the batch, warm, and it is fine. Excellent, in fact. Might have been a one-off infection, but I am also wondering if something was precipitating out in the cold.
 
Brewed this in July. Changed to US05, and Galena Hops. Came out great!

I also brewed it with 05. While it turned out great, I wonder if it would have been better with a malt-favoring yeast. The 05 definitely makes the coffee and chocolate shine, though.
 
Used 1028 as my yeast, as I had a yeast cake from an IPA that I moved into the secondary a few days back.

I tasted the mash, before adding the sparge, and it was amazing - chocolate, caramel.

Has anyone tried an imperial version of this? I'd love to try a 3-gallon version with a higher starting gravity, to capture more of that chocolate flavour.

Any thoughts?
 
So I force carbed the all grain recipe of this for 1 day, then let it sit at 11 psi for 4 days. It is already definitely my favorite beer I've ever made, I know it will get even better with age but I really don't see it lasting very long. I'm getting the ingredients and brewing this again Friday. Thanks to the op for this awesome recipe. This is a must brew...and brew a lot because you'll wish you had more!
 
Just brewed it today I was a little low on my OG 1.055 but I blame that on my sparge technique it was my first time batch sparging vs. fly. Also my yeast (Denys favorite 2 packs) shipped hot so I pitched both of those and some washed 1028 just in case so crazy brew day hopefully it'll come out okay.
If anyone has used two types of yeast some reassurance would be great!
 
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