Some questions about First Wort Hopping

Wasnt sure if this should go in the beginners forum but anyways.

As far as i've understood the concept you move a portion of the hops (30% of total hops are recommended?), more specifically the 15 min addition, to be added to the wort as you start draining it from the mash tun and then boil them for the full duration. The result is ~10% more IBU from the hops and the bitterness is experienced as smoother.

The IBU for the first wort hops is calculated from a 60 min boil(if thats how long your boil is), so in beersmith they should be added as first wort with a boil time of 60?

Does it only affect the bittering or do the flavors manage to survive the boil, since its the 15 min addition thats recommended to FWH?

I had some other questions but ill save those until the second question has been answered, also any good articles on the subject would be appreciated.

Shift said:

The IBU for the first wort hops is calculated from a 60 min boil(if thats how long your boil is), so in beersmith they should be added as first wort with a boil time of 60?

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I don't know about BeerSmith. My copy of ProMash calculates FWH IBU differently than a bittering addition added after first break.

Does it only affect the bittering or do the flavors manage to survive the boil, since its the 15 min addition thats recommended to FWH?

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In my experience, supported by the literature on the subject available on the Internet, some flavor does survive the boil.

[I had some other questions but ill save those until the second question has been answered, also any good articles on the subject would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]

http://www.brewery.org/library/1stwort.html

Cheers,

Bob

Essentially, the FWHs add both bittering and flavor. The flavors are stabilized somehow before the chaos of the boil would drive them off.

The bittering IBU calculations are usually done as if for a 60 min addition, since you're boiling the FWHs for 60 mins, but the perception is a much smoother type of bitterness, so it's not exactly like a 60 min addition. The flavor you get is also somewhat different than a 20/15 min addition. so you may or may not want to include 60 and 20min additions, depending on what you're going for.

I've now FWH'd two beers and enjoyed the results, replacing the 60min addition with FWHs. Fermenting right now I have an IIPA where I took half the 60min and half the 20min and FWH'd it, so I had a FWH, 60min, 20min, and 5min addition. I'm interested to see how that turns out but it's not done yet.

I wouldn't replace the 15min addition with FWH, just the 60min addition. No reason to remove a flavor add just cuz FWH is gunna add a lil of its own. IME, FWH definitely adds some flavor to the brew, but I'd probably attribute it closer to that of a 30min add since its not a huge impact.

Bob said:

I don't know about BeerSmith. My copy of ProMash calculates FWH IBU differently than a bittering addition added after first break.
http://www.brewery.org/library/1stwort.html

Cheers,

Bob

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Beersmith calculates IBU differently, increases, when u choose hop use as FWH, i was just a bit confused about what boil time to use based on article i link below.

damdaman said:

Essentially, the FWHs add both bittering and flavor. The flavors are stabilized somehow before the chaos of the boil would drive them off.

The bittering IBU calculations are usually done as if for a 60 min addition, since you're boiling the FWHs for 60 mins, but the perception is a much smoother type of bitterness, so it's not exactly like a 60 min addition. The flavor you get is also somewhat different than a 20/15 min addition. so you may or may not want to include 60 and 20min additions, depending on what you're going for.

I've now FWH'd two beers and enjoyed the results, replacing the 60min addition with FWHs. Fermenting right now I have an IIPA where I took half the 60min and half the 20min and FWH'd it, so I had a FWH, 60min, 20min, and 5min addition. I'm interested to see how that turns out but it's not done yet.

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Alright, so its 60 min IBU*1.1, but you dont experience it like a 60 min hopped beer with the same IBU.
I'm planning on brewing an belgian triple and was wondering about maybe FWH'ing all the hops?
But i guess i'll experiment with FWH'ing a bit first, gonna brew an IPA on sunday, maybe on my next brew ill use the same recipe but move some hops to FWH to get a feel on the effects on FWH.

dcp27 said:

I wouldn't replace the 15min addition with FWH, just the 60min addition. No reason to remove a flavor add just cuz FWH is gunna add a lil of its own. IME, FWH definitely adds some flavor to the brew, but I'd probably attribute it closer to that of a 30min add since its not a huge impact.

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Beersmith - FWH

Most sources recommend using 30% of the overall hop schedule and moving it to FWH. Other sources recommend taking aromatic hops from the end of the boil and moving it forward to use as FWH.

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from the rest of the article i gather that the hop flavor blends in a bit into the beer and doesnt stand out as much, considering the thread about balanced beers, maybe a way to get a hoppy IPA that isnt all out citrus taste assault at 200 IBU?

Thanks for the answers, im gonna sober up a bit and read through that article tomorrow and return then.

This thread gives a good read.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/hop-impact-first-wort-hopping-68661/index2.html