Wort losses with IPAs. Wow!

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looneybomber

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So I brewed my first IPA yesterday - 6.5gal boil, and evaporated about 1.5gal. I chilled the wort and let it settle for about 3-4hrs before racking to my fermenter. I was only able to get about 3.5gal before getting a bunch of "crap" moving through the racking tube.

There was a lot of hop material at the bottom of the kettle, but then there was also a lot of cloudy stuff too. Could that be because I do BIAB and can't velourf (or whatever that word is) like can be done with a mash tun?

Also, when I go to dry hop, I'm gonna lose even more, right!? I'm gonna end up with so little beer, I don't know if I'll brew another IPA.

Recipe:
6.6lbs light LME
8lbs Pale 2-row
0.5lbs Victory
0.5lbs C-120

60min: 30g Magnum
30min: 15g Magnum
30min: 30g Northern Brewer
0min: 2oz Simcoe
0min: 2.5oz Cascade
dry hop 3oz Simcoe
dry hop 3oz Cascade
 
In my brew software i created two "all grain" profiles for this reason. One with high hop use, one with low hop use. I changed the amount of loss to the trub to take into account the higher losses with more hops in the boil. Just means i need more water pre-boil.
 
Side note: I took a post ferment gravity reading. 1.022 using US05, so 77% apparent attenuation.

My goal was 1.090 OG, 1.012 FG
My actual was 1.096 OG, 1.022 FG.

I'm thinking I could boil some water with some hops and some sugar, let that cool and pour gently into the beer to start fermentation up again. That should keep my hops there, but lower the FG, right?
 
I found that a whirlfloc tablet in the boil at 15 min really helps the trub to settle and I get at least a gallon more wort into the fermenter.
 
Three words.

Paint. Strainer. Bag.

Nothing better for keeping massive break/hop trub out of the fermenter. Cheap, too.

-Rich

I use one every time too. I dont bother letting anything settle, I reach pitching temp and pour into the primary bucket which is lined with a paint strainer. Just pull the strainer out, give it a squeeze and im done. I never understood waiting until things settle before transferring to primary. Dump and go. Anything undesirable will settle after fermentation.
 
Any tips for someone brewing their first IPA Saturday? Making a Stone IPA clone (EdWort's) and would like to end up with the full 5 gallons :mug:
 
I usually have a solid gallon of unusable wort left doing ipas and using whirlfloc. I was shocked my first time (only have done two) compared to other brews I have done. I believe next time ill have to adjust recipe for it I got lucky this time. Its like straight sludge.
 
I formulate hoppy recipes for 6 gallons to get a solid 5 in the fermenter. Works pretty well.

Off-topic - am I the only one for whom paint strainers don't work at all for straining to a fermenter? They always clog up (really fast) and then I've got a whole new set of problems on my hands...
 
Started using paint strainers with my last batch (IIPA), worked like a charm. I poured the cooled wort from the brew kettle into a 5gal bucket then into my carboy (2 rounds of pouring to transfer 7 gallons of wort), and i definitely recommend it. helped aerate too. not quite sure how that could get 'clogged' but if you are putting the paint strainer bag on say a funnel, that could easily get clogged, and I wouldn't recommend it
 
I usually have a solid gallon of unusable wort left doing ipas and using whirlfloc. I was shocked my first time (only have done two) compared to other brews I have done. I believe next time ill have to adjust recipe for it I got lucky this time. Its like straight sludge.

What's causing the sludge? Massive amounts of hops or an increase in break material? Are you using a hop sack? I've actually been using a paint strainer bag as my hop bag and it works well by clipping the top of the bag to the top of the kettle.
 
I think a combo of a good cold break large amount of hops and whirlfloc. Plus I never try to whirlpool it (hate to admit this but could never figure out how to whirlpool with a chiller inside kettle, duh take it out then whirlpool it. Drunk) idk just seems easier in my process to just compensate. I'm not sure just a rook here
 
I formulate hoppy recipes for 6 gallons to get a solid 5 in the fermenter. Works pretty well.

Off-topic - am I the only one for whom paint strainers don't work at all for straining to a fermenter? They always clog up (really fast) and then I've got a whole new set of problems on my hands...

My first BIAB batch, a high gravity RIS, I poured most of my wort from the kettle to the fermenter. When it was time for secondary aeration (it was over 1.140 OG so it needed it), I poured into the secondary fermenter with the paint strainer bag. I think about a gallon out of the 5 made it through the bag. I ended up having to hold it up above the bucket, squeezing it to get it to drain. Maybe 20-25mins, and burning shoulders later I finally had it drained.

I will try this wirlfloc tab you guys are talking about next time. But for me IPA's are a once a year brew for me...this is actually my first IPA ever.
 
What would happen if we just dumped it all in and juat let it settle during fermentation. If u transferred and cold crashed?
 
That's what I do, it all goes in the carboy fermenter. When fermentation is done I cold crash and then rack to the bottling bucket leaving the trub behind.
 
It would be fine. You'll lose some beer when racking, though.

Sounds like we either lose wort or lose beer. I don't ever cold crash though, because I have enough problems getting beers to carb/bottle condition without the cold crash. I think if I kegged, I would just dump everything in, cold crash, and keg...gosh kegging would be so much easier!
 
I made a Rye-PA recently (similar partial mash BIAB, but I can't do a full volume boil on my setup) and was also worried about losses to hops. So I made some of the hops up as a "hop tea" separately by boiling them in water to avoid losing delicious fermantable wort, and it seemed to work pretty well. I boiled just the bittering hops in the main wort (the partial mash part), and did most of the late additions in a separate vessel

Of course, it makes it really difficult to calculate hop utilisations because you're boiling them in different amounts of liquid at different gravities, but it depends how much you care about knowing the figures exactly. And it doesn't affect the amount you lose to dry hop.
 
Yea I can't wait to keg my first batch just got set up and waiting for my brew to finish. Not sure if I want to do two weeks primary, week in secondary with dry hops crash and into keg and refigerate or leave extra week in keg conditioning first.
 
Very timely topic for me as a friend and I will be doing a Rye IPA a few weeks from now. Have paint strainer bags already, so that's good. May just have to sacrifice some of my share of the beer - I'd like him to have a full case.
 
My first BIAB batch, a high gravity RIS, I poured most of my wort from the kettle to the fermenter. When it was time for secondary aeration (it was over 1.140 OG so it needed it), I poured into the secondary fermenter with the paint strainer bag. I think about a gallon out of the 5 made it through the bag. I ended up having to hold it up above the bucket, squeezing it to get it to drain. Maybe 20-25mins, and burning shoulders later I finally had it drained.

This is surprising. How big was the bag? 5 gallons? I did an IPA with 4 oz of hops in the boil this weekend and a respectable amount of break in the kettle, and had maybe 1 minute of squeezing, total.

Oh, wait. I just reread. This was moving to secondary, with the whole yeast cake? I haven't tried straining in this situation at all, and it might very well act differently. My experience from kettle to primary has been excellent.

-Rich
 
I use Lowes paint strainer bags as hops bags in the boil. Before the end of the boil, I pull them out and squeeze them with thick rubber dishwashing gloves to squeeze most of the liquid beer out. This reduces my loss to hops absorbtion in the boil from probably a gallon to maybe a pint. If you don't have rubber gloves, you can do almost as well by shaking the bag and letting the liquid drain out.

After I do that, I dump ALL the boil kettle into the fermenter. It makes for a thick layer of trub, but maximizes yield.
 
I would highly recommend building a hop spider. This was my parts list:

1 3' length 3/8" threaded rod: $9
1 package of nuts and washers for 3/8": $2
1 3" PVC coupler: $3
1 4"-3" hose clamp: $2
1 pack of 2 nylon paint strainer bag: $3

So for $19 and a trip to Home Depot... You've got a device that will keep 2-3 pounds of hop sludge out of your fermenter.

This pic is from my most recent brewday:

image-1530823012.jpg

You can see the spider hanging off the left. The bag is holding all the hop sludge. I hung it off like that to extract all that hoppy goodness. :)
 
Sounds like we either lose wort or lose beer. I don't ever cold crash though, because I have enough problems getting beers to carb/bottle condition without the cold crash. I think if I kegged, I would just dump everything in, cold crash, and keg...gosh kegging would be so much easier!

What are you doing that's causing problems when bottle-conditioning? I cold-crash all my beers with gelatin and, unless it's a long lager time or a high-ABV beer, I don't need to add more yeast to get it to carbonate within 3 weeks or so.

It's interesting to me that you're having trouble.
 
My latest Imperial IPA used whole homegrown hops in the loose knit bags (not sure what the material is called, but what you get to steep grains in, not the finer muslin bags for hops). Aside from the hot break (and the proteins from a lauter burp) it was MUCH cleaner and simpler than having hop trub steal my precious wort. I'm hooked on whole hops, especially when you have 6-8ounces in a 5gal batch. Plus I always brew a 5.3-5.5 gal batch to account for trub in the keggle and racking losses.
 
I would highly recommend building a hop spider. This was my parts list:

1 3' length 3/8" threaded rod: $9
1 package of nuts and washers for 3/8": $2
1 3" PVC coupler: $3
1 4"-3" hose clamp: $2
1 pack of 2 nylon paint strainer bag: $3

So for $19 and a trip to Home Depot... You've got a device that will keep 2-3 pounds of hop sludge out of your fermenter.
OK this is awesome. I will be building this ASAP.:rockin:
 
What is the purpose of the hops spider? Why is it better than clipping the bag to the side of the kettle with a clothespin?
 
I'm guessing utilization would be better with a semi-open bag hanging in the middle of the boil than a closed bag pinned to the side of the kettle. The pic in the above post shows the hop spider after its use essentially.

See pic by step 5 here: http://byo.com/build-it-yourself/item/2427-build-a-hop-spider-projects

I would think a 5 gallon bag would really allow the hops to roll with the boil.
 
Do you guys calculate for less hop utilization when using something like the hop spider? There is no way it can be the same as dropping hops straight into the kettle.
 
What are you doing that's causing problems when bottle-conditioning? I cold-crash all my beers with gelatin and, unless it's a long lager time or a high-ABV beer, I don't need to add more yeast to get it to carbonate within 3 weeks or so.

It's interesting to me that you're having trouble.
All of the above. I tend to brew beer over 1.080.
I brew about an 8:1 ratio of >1.080 beers to <1.080.
Not counting Mr.Beer beers, I've brewed more >1.110 OG beers than I have <1.060 OG beers.
If I go straight from primary to bottling, I don't have a problem carbing. If I secondary them, I've had issues mutliple times that resulted in me popping caps and dripping in some rehydrated EC1118 in order to get them to carb.
 
Do you guys calculate for less hop utilization when using something like the hop spider? There is no way it can be the same as dropping hops straight into the kettle.

Interesting question but brewers have been using hop sacks for ages. The logical side of my brain says the utilization would be lower because of the reduced surface area of hops confined in a sack. But I haven't seen any calculators taking this into account, so I'm thinking the loss might be so negligible it doesn't matter or It could be the benefit of easily removing most of the hop sludge from the wort far outweighs a stuck transfer to primary and/or the loss of wort due to all the hop particles and break material, like in a IPA has...which gets us back on topic. :ban:
 
Do you guys calculate for less hop utilization when using something like the hop spider? There is no way it can be the same as dropping hops straight into the kettle.

To figure actual losses, you'd likely have to experiment because otherwise you're dealing with rates of change and solution concentrations. It might even be a first order differential equation? I'm good with math and physics, but chem100 is my limit.
 
Side note: I took a post ferment gravity reading. 1.022 using US05, so 77% apparent attenuation.

My goal was 1.090 OG, 1.012 FG
My actual was 1.096 OG, 1.022 FG.

I'm thinking I could boil some water with some hops and some sugar, let that cool and pour gently into the beer to start fermentation up again. That should keep my hops there, but lower the FG, right?

So I added .5gal of water with .75lbs of sugar.
I boiled
30min, 6g northern brewer
15min, 8g northern brewer
10min, 8g cascade.

It gave me a 1.076 gravity with 100'ish IBU's. This was dumped in on Wed or Thurs of last week. Took a gravity reading tonight and I am at 1.022, so all the sugar was eaten, but my gravity is not dropping below 1.022. Next time I will have to go AG and mash real low and long. Using LME just doesn't let it ferment dry enough.
 
I've been making IPAs with LME and sugar. I made my first all-grain IPA a couple weeks ago as a test of my new electric kettle, and I was worried the grain bill of 100% pale malt would come out with too much body and/on sweetness. I ended up messing up my volumes a bit, screwed up my temps a bit, and did a slightly thinner-than-usual BIAB mash for 90 minutes with temperatures varying from 68C down to 63C. It started at 1,075-ish and fermented down to 1.008...with one packet of S-04. So by mashing right I think you can get just as dry with all-grain, as you would by using LME+sugar.
 
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