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The Pol said:
Burbing the air out, pretty important if you are STORING the wort. If you are simply pitching the next day, no need.
Click to expand...
Just curiosity - if we're putting the wort in the container at near-boiling temps (read: way over pasteurization temps) does it matter if there's air in the headspace?

-Joe
 
I got all out I could and stopped worrying. The head space did shrink as it cooled.

David :)
 
Hey, it just occurred to me that as a partial boil extract guy..... I probably dont want to use a 5 or 6 gallon winpack for no chill. My usual take from a one hour boil is 3.75 gallons. I guess maybe for extract, you'd want a 4 gallon or less winpack for the no-chill chilling, then add the wort and top up water to the regular fermenter the next day.

Hmm. US plastics doesn't seem to have something useful....
 
nostalgia said:
Just curiosity - if we're putting the wort in the container at near-boiling temps (read: way over pasteurization temps) does it matter if there's air in the headspace?

-Joe
Click to expand...

If you are storing it, you dont want head space. It isnt nasties you are worried about, it is exposure to O2.
 
The Pol said:
If you are storing it, you dont want head space. It isnt nasties you are worried about, it is exposure to O2.
Click to expand...
Ok, well that's my question then: why is exposure to O2 a problem? We want to oxygenate the yeast before pitching anyway, right? Or is there some subtle mechanism at work here that I'm missing?

Thanks,

-Joe
 
nostalgia said:
Ok, well that's my question then: why is exposure to O2 a problem? We want to oxygenate the yeast before pitching anyway, right? Or is there some subtle mechanism at work here that I'm missing?

Thanks,

-Joe
Click to expand...


O2 is good, but I dont beleive it is for long term storage of the wort. It is good for yeast, but they scrub it out pretty effectively. If you want a defiinitive answer though, best to go talk to the Aussies who store thier wort and have been for years. They make it a point to remove as much of the headpsace as possible, I only assume there is a good reason. Perhaps there isnt. Go ask the pros.
 
Cool, I think I'll do just that :) Purging the headspace sounds like the right thing to do, I was just wondering if there was any further reasoning behind it. Being an engineer and all :)

I just ordered ingredients for the Irish red that will be my first no-chill. Looking forward to it!

-Joe
 
I posted over on the Aussie forum and their reasoning for purging the headspace of air is oxidation.

I just want to be clear on hop schedules - I was going to do an Irish red recipe as my first no-chill, but I figured I'd do a recipe I've done before. My first IPA.

Here's the current hop schedule:

1oz: 45 min
1oz: 30 min
1oz: 15 min
1oz: 5 min
2oz: Dry hop

For 56.7 IBUs. Am I correct that the no-chill hop schedule would look like this:

1oz: 25 min
1oz: 10 min
1oz: FWH
1oz: Dry hop
2oz: Dry hop

Thanks!

-Joe
 
nostalgia said:
For 56.7 IBUs. Am I correct that the no-chill hop schedule would look like this:

1oz: 25 min
1oz: 10 min
1oz: FWH
1oz: Dry hop
2oz: Dry hop
Click to expand...

Looks about right. I rarely FWH, so you could add the 15 minute addition directly into the cube - calculate it like a 20 minute. That's what I usually do.

(Nothing against FWH, just my preference.)

Since I buy my hops in bulk now, instead of kits, I usually still add the first addition at 60 minutes, but calculate it as an 80 minute addition - you use a little bit less hops that way. for about 75% of my beer I use the same hop schedule (different varieties and amounts) - first addition at 60 minutes (count as 80), hops directly into cube (count as 20 minutes) and dry hop after about 10 days in primary (directly into primary, I very rarely use a secondary). A really nice IPA can be made with adding a few ounces of C hops directly to the cube. Most of my "belgians" skip the dry hop.
 
Ok, so I've been wanting to do an all late hop addition beer. According to your chart, Pol, it seems I would have to move some of the hops around so they're not actually late hops at all.

I was gonna do a 20 and a 10 minute addition, but with the chart the 20 minute moves to Cube Hop and the 10 minute moves to FWH.

Is that the best I can do for what I'm striving for? Maybe just throw them all in right at flame out?
 
I read in BYO about an Aussie Method where they Brew Grain & Extract wort, Pause for as long as 72 hrs for it to cool, then pitch their yeast and continue as one would normally.

They used a No Rinse Sanitizer in their application and used 5 gallon plastic square containers. It surely got me to thinking about it!
 
First off I agree with Bakins on the point about the boil time of the hops. Why a 45 minute addition? I place any bittering hop in at the beginning of the boil, period, to maximize utilization and reduce waste.

On the point of an all late hopped beer...

You will get 20 minutes or so of utilization out of a cube hop addition... so adjust accordingly.

You could move the 10 minute addition to FWH, but I think youd get closer to what you are trying to achieve with an all cube hop addition.

Never gone this route, so it is pure speculation on my part.
 
The Pol said:
On the point of an all late hopped beer...

You will get 20 minutes or so of utilization out of a cube hop addition... so adjust accordingly.

You could move the 10 minute addition to FWH, but I think youd get closer to what you are trying to achieve with an all cube hop addition.

Never gone this route, so it is pure speculation on my part.
Click to expand...

Well, I've done an all FWH hopped beer, I guess why not try an all Cube Hopped beer. I should be using about 4 oz of Cascade to achieve the IBUs. I bumped the IBUs up a little, I keep reading that the bitterness is smoother with all late hop. Same thing with FWH, my FWH IPA was 70 something IBUs, but you would never guess it. It fits into the APA category more than IPA.
 
chefchris said:
Well, I've done an all FWH hopped beer, I guess why not try an all Cube Hopped beer. I should be using about 4 oz of Cascade to achieve the IBUs. I bumped the IBUs up a little, I keep reading that the bitterness is smoother with all late hop. Same thing with FWH, my FWH IPA was 70 something IBUs, but you would never guess it. It fits into the APA category more than IPA.
Click to expand...

I dont understand how your IPA was less bitter... did you move your bittering hops, or only late addition hops to FWH?
 
The Pol said:
I dont understand how your IPA was less bitter... did you move your bittering hops, or only late addition hops to FWH?
Click to expand...

The only hop addition was FWH. It's actually more bitter, but it's not a perceived bitterness. It's smoother, so you definately would guess it's 70 IBUs.
 
chefchris said:
The only hop addition was FWH. It's actually more bitter, but it's not a perceived bitterness. It's smoother, so you definately would guess it's 70 IBUs.
Click to expand...


Ahh, I get it, I mean I do FWH too, the IBUs are higher but perception is different. When I do my pale ales, I only move my late addition hops to FWH, so that I retain the perception, but the FWH adds a roundness or complexity that I never get otherwise.
 
The Pol said:
Ahh, I get it, I mean I do FWH too, the IBUs are higher but perception is different. When I do my pale ales, I only move my late addition hops to FWH, so that I retain the perception, but the FWH adds a roundness or complexity that I never get otherwise.
Click to expand...

You ain't seen nothing till you only FWH. So smooth.
 
I brewed an AG Bee Cave Haus yesterday and didn't use my IC, it was nice to avoid dragging the garden hoses out, saving the time spent cooling and cleaning everything up. But, now on to the real test. I will pitch tonight, or tomorrow with my FWS and will post back in a few weeks. Looking forward to see/drink the results.
 
I hope this wasn't asked in the thread already, but I'm building a recipe destined to be no-chill. Here's the current hop schedule:

1.00 oz Fuggles [4.00 %] (60 min) Hops 12.9 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (8 min) Hops 4.9 IBU
Total: 17.8 IBU

So I figured I'd do the Goldings as FWH. When I do that in Beersmith, it punches the IBUs to 30.7! I know FWH bitterness is supposed to be perceived differently, but that's almost doubling.

You don't change the quantity of aroma hops when moving them to FWH, right?

-Joe
 
Planning on my first 10 gallon batch this weekend as well as my first no-chill batch; on my previous batches I always added Irish Moss 15 before flame out, is this ok with no-chill brewing or should i add it at flame out?
 
Pol...a couple questions for you:

1. Perhaps you could explain again why there needs to be a change in the hop schedule for a no-chill. (Is it because the wort in a no-chill stays hot longer and changes aroma hops into bittering hops due to the lengthy exposure to heat?)

2. I've been using 6 gallon buckets from Ropak for fermenting and they work great. (They easily hold 6.5 gallons of liquid) Any issues you foresee using one as a no-chill + fermenter? They are HDPE2, hold 6.5 gallons, and have a tight sealing lid. The link below should take you to their website

6 gal or 22.7 lit round container (75-mil wall thickness) - LINPAC

Here is the USPlastics version:

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pr...egory_name=20327&product_id=9746&clickid=land

thanks
dave
 
mac1jw said:
Pol...a couple questions for you:

1. Perhaps you could explain again why there needs to be a change in the hop schedule for a no-chill. (Is it because the wort in a no-chill stays hot longer and changes aroma hops into bittering hops due to the lengthy exposure to heat?)

2. I've been using 6 gallon buckets from Ropak for fermenting and they work great. (They easily hold 6.5 gallons of liquid) Any issues you foresee using one as a no-chill + fermenter? They are HDPE2, hold 6.5 gallons, and have a tight sealing lid. The link below should take you to their website

6 gal or 22.7 lit round container (75-mil wall thickness) - LINPAC

Here is the USPlastics version:

6 & 7 Gallon Buckets - US Plastic Corporation

thanks
dave
Click to expand...

#1 ALL hops get more utilization due to the length of time that the wort remains hot, regardless of when they are placed in the boil.

#2 This has been rehashed several times. People use the buckets in some cases, you just have to watch them, the vacuum produced as the headspsce and wort shrinks is pretty dramatic... very dramatic. It can collapse a rigid bucket.
 
One thing I really like about this process is the real wort starter. Not just that you save on DME and the time to make one ... but when it's done fermenting out, just decant the beer off like normal ... and drink it. It gives you a pretty good idea of how the beer's gonna turn out. Though I'm sure the end result of the actual beer will taste better because it's not been on a stir plate or at 75F. But damn, I almost drank the whole glass of the starter wort last night.
 
Speaking of RWSs (ROUSs? I don't believe they exist), I was just going to pitch the whole thing instead of decanting.

I was also going to put it on my stirplate to kick the yeast into reproduction mode for longer. Is that a bad idea with a RWS?

-Joe
 
I also would like to know if its ok to pitch the entire RWS if its only been on the stir plate for about 24 hours. I know for a fact that after 3 days a stir plate starter tastes awful and I have to decant that. But I don't know about 24 hours.

It sure would be easy to take a bit of real wort, cool it, pitch the yeast, strir for 24 hours, then just dump it in the no-chill fermenter. Any issues with that?
 
Well, brewday's done. Pulled off a liter or so for my RWS and filled up the 7G container:

nochill.jpg


Another poster mentioned his leaked at the air bleed hole - mine leaks pretty badly at the spigot. Oh well, c'est la vie, yeah?

Yeast is pitched and on the stirplate. I figure a few hours' aeration certainly can't hurt it.

-Joe
 
I've done two RWS. One, a APA, I pitched the whole thing. Althought I didn't have a stir plate on this, I shook it as often as possible. The second, my Irish Red, I decanted. But like I said, the starter tasted really good.

I guess just taste the starter before you pitch. Decide then.
 
chefchris said:
but when it's done fermenting out, just decant the beer off like normal ... and drink it. It gives you a pretty good idea of how the beer's gonna turn out. .
Click to expand...

I hadn't thought about that. I've just been pitching the whole thing, but I like the idea...
 
nutty_gnome said:
It sure would be easy to take a bit of real wort, cool it, pitch the yeast, strir for 24 hours, then just dump it in the no-chill fermenter. Any issues with that?
Click to expand...

That's what I've done with all of mine, but I don't use a stirplate. I usually use a 2 quart RWS.
 
bakins said:
That's what I've done with all of mine, but I don't use a stirplate. I usually use a 2 quart RWS.
Click to expand...

+1
I've been doing the same, 2qt and no stirplate.
Since I've switched to all no-chill, I've gradually become accustomed to leaving beers for 1-3 days before pitching. This means you have plenty of time to let the starter completely ferment.
For lagers, I ferment the starter at 50F for a few days, then pitch the whole thing. Since I typically do 1 gallon starters for lagers, this is definitely a money and time saver.
 
O.K. guys, I've read several of these threads and even asked a couple of questions. My interest in "no chill" is not having to use ice as well as a lot more water to get my wort down to pitching temp. I did a hybrid "no chill" on a Full Sail Amber clone. I went from my boil kettle through my HVC and dropped the wort to ~105F. I ferment in a 7.5 gal keg. So I sanitized it, poured in the wort and put a stopper in it. I put the keg in my ale room for 2 days. I rehydrated my Safale US-05 yeast and pitched it. 8 hrs. later, it was happily checking. This was my hop schedule:
1.00 oz Mt. Hood [6.00 %] (60 min) Hops 18.8 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (15 min) Hops 8.6 IBU
.50 oz Mt. Hood [6.00%] (End) Hops 18.8 IBU
.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (End) Hops 8.6 IBU

I followed this without any correction. I've looked at POL's chart since then, but since I use a dry yeast, I dont make a starter, I just rehydrate I didn't think I could FWH. Now for my questions:
1) Since I did crash cool to ~105F, do ya'll think an adjustment is necessary?
2) If I don't crash cool at all next time and I use dry yeast, I presume I would add my 15min. hops when I put it in the keg. What about my end of boil hops?
Thanks for the help. "No Chill" is the bomb!

P.S. My hydrometer sample was excellent! Hops seemed perfect. Thanks - Dwain
 
Dwain said:
O.K. guys, I've read several of these threads and even asked a couple of questions. My interest in "no chill" is not having to use ice as well as a lot more water to get my wort down to pitching temp. I did a hybrid "no chill" on a Full Sail Amber clone. I went from my boil kettle through my HVC and dropped the wort to ~105F. I ferment in a 7.5 gal keg. So I sanitized it, poured in the wort and put a stopper in it. I put the keg in my ale room for 2 days. I rehydrated my Safale US-05 yeast and pitched it. 8 hrs. later, it was happily checking. This was my hop schedule:
1.00 oz Mt. Hood [6.00 %] (60 min) Hops 18.8 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (15 min) Hops 8.6 IBU
.50 oz Mt. Hood [6.00%] (End) Hops 18.8 IBU
.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (End) Hops 8.6 IBU

I followed this without any correction. I've looked at POL's chart since then, but since I use a dry yeast, I dont make a starter, I just rehydrate I didn't think I could FWH. Now for my questions:
1) Since I did crash cool to ~105F, do ya'll think an adjustment is necessary?
2) If I don't crash cool at all next time and I use dry yeast, I presume I would add my 15min. hops when I put it in the keg. What about my end of boil hops?
Thanks for the help. "No Chill" is the bomb!

P.S. My hydrometer sample was excellent! Hops seemed perfect. Thanks - Dwain
Click to expand...


Not necessary... once you are below about 160-170F the utilization drops off to a negligible amount. At 105F there wont be any utilization taking place.

FWIW, my end of boil hops... aroma hops, I just dry hop with them instead.
 
So, Pol, if you do a hybrid approach of dropping to 105F, no hop adjustments would be necessary.
This would meet two of the original goals (to a lesser degree)
1. Lower cooling water usage
2. Less brewing time.

PS. I LOVE that shirt and hereby Double Dog Dare you to wear it in public with SWMBO.:)
 

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