The Lazy Man's GF Beer

I have been using Clarity-Ferm from White Labs for the past three beers. I haven't noticed any difference in body or head retention. A side-by-side is in order. But let's put it this way: the effect of Clarity-Ferm on body and head is slight enough that I would have never thought about it unless you guys alerted me to the possibility.

I say, if you're curious, don't think of CF as a step backward. Go ahead and try it, and get a crystal-clear beer while you're at it!

Flatspin, +1 on definition of an enzyme. Just add the recommended amount for any gravity beer. What limits the activity of a protein-based enzyme is typically unfolding and aggregation. Both will eventually push activity to zero, so just make sure to keep it in the fridge at all times before you use it. (Cold slows unfolding, and a constant temp deters aggregation.)

As far as the enzyme settling, keep in mind how small most proteins are -- nanometers in diameter. Compare this to the micometer diameter of yeast (that's 1000x different). Yeast have a hard time settling in a liquid unless they flocculate, so a protein doesn't even stand a chance. Clarity-ferm will never settle out unless it has adsorbed onto something big, and if that's the case, it's probably not active anymore.

Just got a sack of malted red millet for my GF buddy -- we'll see how it goes!

There's one reason to believe CF may spare most body and head-forming proteins. It targets runs of proline, which gluten happens to contain.

So, it's only targeting polyproline stretches, sparing all proteins without that pattern of amino acids.

DPPIV seems to do the same, but it cuts only at one end of proteins. (Similar to how beta-amylase cuts only at the end of starch). White Labs claims that CF contains an endo-peptidase, which means it will cut in the middle of a protein. (like how alpha-amylase cuts at branch points in the middle of starch)

Anyway, just wanted to point out that the White Labs product is potentially different from the stuff at the drug store because of where it cuts proline-containing proteins.

drummstikk said:

There's one reason to believe CF may spare most body and head-forming proteins. It targets runs of proline, which gluten happens to contain.

So, it's only targeting polyproline stretches, sparing all proteins without that pattern of amino acids.

DPPIV seems to do the same, but it cuts only at one end of proteins. (Similar to how beta-amylase cuts only at the end of starch). White Labs claims that CF contains an endo-peptidase, which means it will cut in the middle of a protein. (like how alpha-amylase cuts at branch points in the middle of starch)

Anyway, just wanted to point out that the White Labs product is potentially different from the stuff at the drug store because of where it cuts proline-containing proteins.

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That is really interesting, and I've never heard of DPPIV. Could it be used in conjunction with clarity ferm to reduce the gluten level even further, the way alpha and beta amalayse work together to create fermentable sugars?

Flatspin said:

That is really interesting, and I've never heard of DPPIV. Could it be used in conjunction with clarity ferm to reduce the gluten level even further, the way alpha and beta amalayse work together to create fermentable sugars?

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Cool idea -- somebody mentioned DPPIV earlier in this thread, saying they found it at a drugstore.

I wonder if it would get rid of that last little bit of discomfort GF peeps tend to experience with Clarity-Ferm beers?

Anybody with mild gluten sensitivity want to be a guinea pig? (A thankless job, but you'd be doing it for SCIENCE!)

I hate to drag this up, but I feel the need to comment.

DKershner said:

You are born with the genetic capability of developing the disease and have the ability to pass it to offspring, but if there are no symptoms, there is no disease. This is why you can test children nowadays to see if they have the possibility of developing it.

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Not to be a drag, but this is grossly inaccurate. There are gastrointestinal, physical and mental symptoms associated with Celiac Disease. As a cross section example, I display diarrhea, joint pain/lethargy and ADHD that lasts for 7-10 days after ingestion. Only one of those is classically linked to Celiac/Gluten Sensitivity. Just because someone doesn't correctly identify all of their symptoms as being related to ingesting gluten, doesn't mean they don't exist. Further, if someone has mostly healed and is ingesting small amounts of gluten, there is a very real chance that they are damaging their intestinal villa and they don't know it because they aren't showing symptoms. Consuming under 20ppm of gluten may be the safe range for most people to not show symptoms, but if you want to get technical about it, it doesn't mean that damage isn't being done. You do damage to your body, and because of that damage, symptoms develop. To say that if there are no symptoms there's no disease is completely inaccurate. A celiac shows no symptoms on a life long gluten free diet, but you can't say the diet cures the disease because there are a lack of symptoms.

That said, while the focus of this thread is a neat concept, I think there is a general lack of knowledge on Celiac. This is a DANGEROUS thing for Celiacs, and gluten sensitive people to try. I know the OP says that, but it needs to be reiterated and not downplayed for the sake of people that dig up this thread in the future. There is a reason why people with an autoimmune disease should avoid the things that attack their immune system. I know that there are a lot of people out there with wide ranges of sensitivities, but the notion that a clarity agent is going to break down Gliadin enough to make the AA Chains "inert" is completely baseless and incredibly naive.

I think this is something for people that are trying to avoid gluten for general health reasons to try. The rest of us should probably wait until the GMO Gods start pumping out Gliadin-free Barley.

tmwilkin said:

I found a lab that will do a sub 20ppm test for gluten. My next several batches I am going to run those tests. I'll do a kit and one if these and see what results I get. It will be a early winter before I getbsome numbers though.

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tmwilkin said:

I have two batches to test. One traditional brew pumpkin ale control and a second batch with clari-ferm.

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did you ever get your batches tested? would love to see the difference between the control and enzymed batch to put my MIL mind in thr right place and not drink because its at the acceptible level or a RCH higher..

KWKSLVR said:

I think this is something for people that are trying to avoid gluten for general health reasons to try.

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this is the exact reason im looking into this enzyme. my MIL is on a GF diet for health and not allergy but is very strict on what is comsumed...
thanks for this great thread everyone

Hi All, just to amplify and clarify on the cautions given above, **Gluten-Reduced still has all the Hordein in it**. If you have Celiac disease (like me), there is no benefit to you from clarity-ferm (or any similar product) or any "reduced-gluten" beer. It does reduce gliadin (gluten from wheat), so if wheat is your only issue, then maybe this is a good thing for you.

Here is an article on this information: http://news.discovery.com/human/low-gluten-beer-120103.html#mkcpgn=rssnws1

Here is the actual study providing the info: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/pr2008434

A co-worker and I thought about trying to duplicate the results here at the National Lab where I work, but it's incredibly laborious, which is probably why it took so long for someone to do it the first time.

Cheers,

Hopaddict.

Just thought I would chip in here with some anecdotal evidence.

I brew everything with clarity ferm as my wife is a celiac. It takes very very little gluten for her to have a reaction, but she has no issues drinking my beer with clarity ferm added.

It works for us and I have seen no effect on head and body. Even if body was a concern, you can always mash hotter.

Subscribing to this thread, this is some good stuff!

For every anecdote I've heard about someone being okay with it, I've heard another about someone still getting sick from it. Anecdotal evidence is worthless.

Well, here is another anecdote for you. I have been Coeliac for around 27 years. Highly sensitive to the point of even a little bit of flour making me projectile vomit. And yet,I have always been able to drink 'normal' beer with no physical effects apart from the normal effects beer has on people. Although I can't comment on what it has done to parts of my body that I can't see. Which is mostly why I now brew my own fully gluten free beer. However, a few months back I tried 'Duara Gluten Free' beer to find out the 'competition'. It's not gluten free, it's only gluten reduced but for some stupid reason the even more stupid European Union allow it. That's another story. After trying it I started to get a really bad head ache and some serious stomach cramps. To the point of I was unable to sleep all night. So there is either something seriously wrong with the beer, or clarity firm is useless and the chemicals from it make it even worse. A little bit like a really cheap bottle of wine. Looks good in the shop as it will save you a few quid, but you REALLY regret it the next day. All thanks to the chemicals. Long and the short, Clarity Ferm doesn't make it gluten free, just gluten reduced. And it helps to create the terrible beer Daura.

HopAddict said:

Hi All, just to amplify and clarify on the cautions given above, **Gluten-Reduced still has all the Hordein in it**. If you have Celiac disease (like me), there is no benefit to you from clarity-ferm (or any similar product) or any "reduced-gluten" beer. It does reduce gliadin (gluten from wheat), so if wheat is your only issue, then maybe this is a good thing for you.

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My understanding is that there is no way to test for gliadin in the presence of alcohol so there is no way to know what's going on there. When it comes to Hordein, a mass spectrometer will show Hordein "chunks" even if the R5 ELISA test shows nothing. R5 ELISA can only detect COMPLETE amino acid chains. So if you cut the amino acid chain in half or in thirds, it's still detectable under a mass spectrometer.

What they're finding now is that there are only about 90 out of 2700 gluten peptides that cause problems in us. 3 of them appear to be real triggers. Which of these are in which gluten grains are beyond me. The real question is does Brewers Clarex/ClarityFerm cut and isolate those peptides well enough to eliminate autoimmune reactions in most celiac patients? My guess is that maybe it does, maybe it doesn't because everyone is probably a little different. Beer never bothered me like gluten containing foods, but I've avoided it anyway to be on the safe side (minus the occasional Omission).

Personally, I think Omission is the worst thing that has ever happened when it comes to craft brewing and celiac sufferers. Its like Widmer Brothers has quietly given the go ahead to the media to advertise it as being "Gluten Free". I've had to get onto my local Whole Foods twice about placing it in between Redbridge and New Planet. I see blogs and news articles all over the place where it's touted as gluten free. The general public has no clue what they're drinking and that the testing method is inherently flawed.

Ash_Mathew said:

Well, here is another anecdote for you. I have been Coeliac for around 27 years. Highly sensitive to the point of even a little bit of flour making me projectile vomit. And yet,I have always been able to drink 'normal' beer with no physical effects apart from the normal effects beer has on people. Although I can't comment on what it has done to parts of my body that I can't see. Which is mostly why I now brew my own fully gluten free beer. However, a few months back I tried 'Duara Gluten Free' beer to find out the 'competition'. It's not gluten free, it's only gluten reduced but for some stupid reason the even more stupid European Union allow it. That's another story. After trying it I started to get a really bad head ache and some serious stomach cramps. To the point of I was unable to sleep all night. So there is either something seriously wrong with the beer, or clarity firm is useless and the chemicals from it make it even worse. A little bit like a really cheap bottle of wine. Looks good in the shop as it will save you a few quid, but you REALLY regret it the next day. All thanks to the chemicals. Long and the short, Clarity Ferm doesn't make it gluten free, just gluten reduced. And it helps to create the terrible beer Daura.

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Nah man, Daura is just plain disgusting... at least by the time it makes it to the states.