Dusseldorf Sticke Altbier Recipe Suggestions

I'm brewing my first Altbier soon and would like some help with the hop additions.

I'm brewing a Dusseldorf style Sticke Altbier, so I want the ABV and IBUs a little higher than normal. When I put it into the program it comes out right where I want it for ABV, IBUs and SRM, I'm just concerned with the hop addition times (for flavor and aroma, not so much the bitterness). I'm also not using any crystal malt because I want a real bready flavor and do not want it to be an overly sweet beer. I know it's not a typical Altbier recipe, but I think it will turn out nice if I can get the hops right.

OG: 1.055
FG: 1.014
ABV: 5.37%
IBU: 52.65
SRM: 13.8
Volume: 5.5 gallons

Malt: 8 lb Pilsner (62.4%)
2 lb Munich (15.6%)
2 lb Vienna (15.6%)
10 oz Pale Wheat (4.8% for head retention)
3 oz Carafa III (1.46% for color)

Hops: 1.5oz Pearle (60 min)
.75oz Spalt (20 min)
.75oz Hallertauer (20 min)

Yeast: Wyeast 1007 - German Ale

Any thoughts on moving the hop addition times up or down, or the maybe adding more or less of a certain hop? As long as the IBUs float between 45 and 55 i'll be happy. Thanks.

I'd use the perle to bitter and the spalt for flavoroma, fiddling with the times/amounts to get the IBUs where I want. When I made my Doppelsticke it was basically 3:1 Munich:wheat, and I loved it. I don't know exactly what you're looking for, but with enough attenuation and bitterness, a malt bomb is nice. The sweetness you get from Munich and Vienna is totally different from caramel malt sweetness. It's full and rich, but stops short of being cloying and gross.

Thanks for the comment. Ill switch the pearle to the bittering addition.

I see most altbiers do not have a late hop addition. Am I going to regret the flameout hallertauer?

It depends what you want. I like the spiciness of the noble hops, so I loaded mine up at IPA levels. I suppose a more classic Alt approach would be for a less hoppy flavor. There's not much info to go by when it comes to formulating Stickes and Doppelstickes (maybe because they're secret), so who's to say what's authentic? What little I've found suggests some late hopping for flavor and aroma, in the 1-2oz range. Maybe you could hold the Spalt for dry-hopping if you think the beer needs it.

You can read the reviews of Uerige Sticke (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/1923/16146) to get an idea of what to add when.

Up the Carafa III to 6 oz and lower the wheat to 6 oz or better yet 0 oz.

kingwood-kid said:

I'd use the perle to bitter and the spalt for flavoroma, fiddling with the times/amounts to get the IBUs where I want. When I made my Doppelsticke it was basically 3:1 Munich:wheat, and I loved it. I don't know exactly what you're looking for, but with enough attenuation and bitterness, a malt bomb is nice. The sweetness you get from Munich and Vienna is totally different from caramel malt sweetness. It's full and rich, but stops short of being cloying and gross.

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I'm with you on the Perle. It's my go to German bittering hop.
I like my alts hoppier than most so I use a 20 minute and flameout spalt or strisselspalt additions

I tend to over hop most of my beers as well. I don't worry too much about the style guidelines, but I try to stay close enough that I don't end up with a really unbalanced beer.

I'll probably brew it this weekend or next and post the results when finished. I'm pretty excited about this one. After brewing so many American style beers lately it will be a nice change of pace.

Lucky for you, Sticke alts have no style guidelines. I remember reading the link in post #6 before I brewed. It was still a lot of blind guessing when I formulated a recipe. I still have no idea if what I concocted in any way resembled Uerige or a "real" Doppelsticke.

I just did this as an ALt split the 10 gallons and pitched Notty and S04

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
12 lbs Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 1 53.3 %
8 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 35.6 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Caramunich II (46.0 SRM) Grain 3 11.1 %
1.00 oz Perle [7.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 13.7 IBUs
2.00 oz Perle [7.80 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 5 21.1 IBUs
2.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.30 %] - Boil Hop 6 7.5 IBUs
2.0 pkg Nottingham (Danstar #-) [23.66 ml] Yeast 7 -

Hi,
here are my two cent.

For an Altbier your recepie seems to have way too much IBU. I`d suggest to get the IBU down to 25-30.

I brewed the other day an Altbier using this recepie (it is a german website): http://www.maischemalzundmehr.de/index.php?id=149&inhaltmitte=recipe

Pilsener Malt 55.1%
Vienna Malt 26.5%
Cara Foam 14.3%
Cara Red 4.1%

For the hop additions I used only Perle at 60 min. and 10 min and pitched it with the S-33.

Mashing schedule:

Mash in: 40°C
Rest at 64°C for 35 min
Rest at 75°C for 45 min
Sparge at 78°C

Cheers
Martin

dstar26t said:

Here's some informative reading on Alt.

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nice find I trust Denny.

Ravenor said:

Hi,
here are my two cent.

For an Altbier your recepie seems to have way too much IBU. I`d suggest to get the IBU down to 25-30.

I brewed the other day an Altbier using this recepie (it is a german website): http://www.maischemalzundmehr.de/index.php?id=149&inhaltmitte=recipe

Pilsener Malt 55.1%
Vienna Malt 26.5%
Cara Foam 14.3%
Cara Red 4.1%

For the hop additions I used only Perle at 60 min. and 10 min and pitched it with the S-33.

Mashing schedule:

Mash in: 40°C
Rest at 64°C for 35 min
Rest at 75°C for 45 min
Sparge at 78°C

Cheers
Martin

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nice receipe
and thanks for the suggestions

since its 2 IBU's over per beersmith I am not going to sweat it plus its a little higher in the ABV and barely in the color range plus I didn't use a Alt yeast; I guess I will call it a Sticke Alt.

I've been looking into brewing a Doppelsticke and recently bought two cases of the Uerige for "sampling". Very expensive sampling, BTW, although the bottles are super cool tall EZ cap brown bottles.

It wasn't easy getting this stuff, either. Quality wise, the first case was lousy. I don't blame the brewery, but the beer was oxidized, some bottles more than others. One bottle had some beer come out and a weird mold on the side.

The second case was much better. This one I got a couple months later although probably from the same distributor via a different retailer.

My recipe is still being formulated, but I think more munich and vienna and less pils. a touch of debittered carafa III, a touch of caramunich, and a bunch of Tettnangers. Full pound in 10 gallons. That's my go to hop cause that's what I got to go to. No hop additions within 20 mins of flameout.

After doing a little more research (forgot to check my brewing classic styles book), and reading some good points posted above, I've reworked the recipe.

I'm keeping the grain bill the same, one because I already have the ingredients, and two because I think it will give the beer the flavor I'm looking for. I would probably go with a little caramunich next time, maybe 5% or less, to bump up the maltyness. I've seen a lot of people go with munich malt as their primary grain, but i'm looking forward to seeing how the pilsner adds a different flavor profile to the beer (but I still have a good amount of munich and Vienna in there).

The biggest change I've made was the hop additions. I'm going with 1.5 oz of Pearle at 60 min, and getting rid of the late additions and adding .75oz of Spalt and .75oz of Hallertauer at 20 minutes. I've used Pearle and Hallertauer several times and like the flavor, however I haven't used Spalt before and I hear a little goes a long way with this hop. To keep it somewhat traditional, I will use the Spalt, just in a lower amount.

The change in the hop schedule brings the IBUs to 52.65. I'm happy with that, like I said before I do like hoppier beers, but at 52 I'm not going crazy with it.

Another change I'm making is that I'm going with a 90 minute mash instead of a 60 (per Jamil's notes) to make sure I get full conversion with the low mash temp of 149*.

I appreciate everyone's input in this thread. I plan on brewing it tomorrow and when complete I'll post the results.

I also realized I screwed up on my recipe calculations because I was going for a 5 gal batch instead of the 5.5 I usually do. By bumping the batch up another 0.5 gal it has changed the following:
OG:1.055
FG: 1.014
ABV: 5.37%
IBUs: 52.65
SRM: 13.8

bethebrew said:

I've been looking into brewing a Doppelsticke and recently bought two cases of the Uerige for "sampling".... No hop additions within 20 mins of flameout.

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I've never had Uerige, since it's not distributed in Texas to my knowledge; one for the bucket list I suppose. Do you think it's devoid of late hops, or that it has them and they just faded during the long trip from Dusseldorf to you? My doppelsticke had 6oz at flameout, and I loved the spiciness they brought. But I don't know if that's what fresh Uerige would be like, or if I just late-hop the crap out of everything because I'm a Stupid DIPA-Loving Ugly American.

kingwood-kid said:

I've never had Uerige, since it's not distributed in Texas to my knowledge; one for the bucket list I suppose. Do you think it's devoid of late hops, or that it has them and they just faded during the long trip from Dusseldorf to you? My doppelsticke had 6oz at flameout, and I loved the spiciness they brought. But I don't know if that's what fresh Uerige would be like, or if I just late-hop the crap out of everything because I'm a Stupid DIPA-Loving Ugly American.

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I suspect the Uerige was devoid of late hops even early on. However comparing it to Celebrator Doppelbock for example it was a "lot" hoppier. I'm with you in general, late hopping is where it's at for us Ugly Americans lol.

I spent an afternoon in Uerige "doing research" a couple of years ago and I think there are some late additions. I brewed my one and only alt right after we got back and it had a modest 20 minute addition of Strisselspalt and a smaller addition at flameout. May or may not be to style but it was a damn fine beer that went very fast at our Oktoberfest.

corkybstewart said:

I spent an afternoon in Uerige "doing research" a couple of years ago and I think there are some late additions. I brewed my one and only alt right after we got back and it had a modest 20 minute addition of Strisselspalt and a smaller addition at flameout. May or may not be to style but it was a damn fine beer that went very fast at our Oktoberfest.

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Did you actually observe the late hop additions at the brewery?