Really annoyed with my Austin H. S. order, proabbly at me.

You know sometimes you probably mess up, but then you think maybe someone else might think about such things too.......

I wanted to order last Wednesday but wanted to confirm the availability of a particular yeast at Austin Homebrew. I called early Thursday and got it confirmed and ordered. Got the cold pack for the weather here is pretty brutal of late. I thought they might get it out Thursday as they are very prompt shippers and it went through my mind that surely they wouldn't ship an order with yeast in it on a Friday afternoon with temps near 100 and knowing it wouldn't move over the weekend. Didn't call and confirm....my bad.

It came today (five days from shipping) and the 'cold pack' showed 95F on my digital thermometer. Wyeast pouch fully expanded and hot to the touch. I guess what got me was the cold pack was only slightly larger than a pack of cigarettes and was with the yeast in a plastic baggie thing on the top of the box. Really? That wouldn't have kept the yeast cold over night let alone for five days. I thought it would be in a Styrofoam thing or some insulated container. I'll take the blame this time due to timing, but if that is how all suppliers "insulate" liquid yeast in the summer there is no way that yeast could have been kept cool for even a standard three day shipping period. I'll never order any again in summer. Live and learn I guess.

That's pretty standard no matter who you order from. The yeast is fine. Make a starter.

dale1038 said:

That's pretty standard no matter who you order from. The yeast is fine. Make a starter.

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Got it underway as I write.

I feel you. It never seems too great. There's no way they can do it economically though. The yeast always works out fine for me.

I had the exact same issue with some yeast I ordered from Austin, as well. Mine was also in the low 90's when I checked it. It felt like a hot pack, not an ice pack. As mentioned above, I made a starter and it took off just fine. One thing in my favor was the fact it was a saison yeast...

I took the stress out of ordering yeast, I go with the dry. Really like the vacuum packed Danstar from Lallemand. I did a APA about a week ago, re hydrated for about an hour, pitched, and in 4 hours the wort was going, in 8 hours krausen in the blow off tube. Smack packs, and vials may be good (or great) I've been way more comfortable with the dry. Maybe when I'm a old timer on here I'll say I was wrong, but for now, give me the dry. Less stress.

CBXBob said:

I took the stress out of ordering yeast, I go with the dry. Really like the vacuum packed Danstar from Lallemand. I did a APA about a week ago, re hydrated for about an hour, pitched, and in 4 hours the wort was going, in 8 hours krausen in the blow off tube. Smack packs, and vials may be good (or great) I've been way more comfortable with the dry. Maybe when I'm a old timer on here I'll say I was wrong, but for now, give me the dry. Less stress.

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same here. for most of the beer i make; APA, blondes and american wheat beer US-05 does the job well. when i make sours i do buy yeast or step up bottle dregs. i have various home brew shops around here but i guess others are not as lucky and have to order yeast online.

I hate to say it, but this is why I refuse to order liquid yeast during the warm months. I imagine that the 'cold pack' is pretty much spent by the time the package gets from AHS to the UPS hub. (Ever been in the back of a truck in the summer? I have and I can tell you it's hot as hell...).

IffyG said:

I hate to say it, but this is why I refuse to order liquid yeast during the warm months. I imagine that the 'cold pack' is pretty much spent by the time the package gets from AHS to the UPS hub. (Ever been in the back of a truck in the summer? I have and I can tell you it's hot as hell...).

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Agreed completely. I avoid liquid yeast from any on-line place during the summer.

Me too from now on. I pitched it and unless Denny's Favorite 50 smells rotten all the time I'm worried. It was 105 here today and it sat on the front porch for about three hours before I got home in addition to the UPS oven it was in all day. Not planning to brew until Sunday, so I hope it will perk up and I can save it in the fridge till then.

Most anyone who has ever ordered yeast would have told you not to make an order on Friday unless you knew you were going to get it the next day. Just make sure you don't order toward the end of the week to avoid the yeast sitting in a hot warehouse all weekend. Order Monday - Wednesday according to where you live. Yeast is going to get warm in the summer months but if you are going to brew within a few days of receiving you'll be OK. Throw it in a starter and go.
In my case, if I am ordering with yeast in mind I order on Sunday and no later than Tuesday and I always get it on or before Friday.

aubiecat said:

In my case, if I am ordering with yeast in mind I order on Sunday and no later than Tuesday and I always get it on or before Friday.

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Good advice no doubt (and I actually ordered Thurs. morning), but it may not have made any difference this time possibly. The yeast has been in a starter on the stir plate for over 14 hours with no activity whatsoever. With the actual temp at 105 yesterday, and in the high 90's the previous two days, there is no telling what the temp in the UPS truck was or the three hours it sat on my red tiled porch. My guess is that it exceeded 120F and that yeast is cooked. It smelled awful when I opened the fully inflated unsmacked pack last evening. I'll give it till tomorrow, but my hopes are pretty much bleak at this time.

Yeast have evolved over thousands of years. Pretty sure they've figured out how to deal with summer heat too.

Check the gravity of your starter wort. Sometimes a starter will seemingly show no activity, but actually ferments out.

Same, I never buy liquid yeast during the summer. Thankfully my two LHBS carry Wyeast and White labs, I have little reason to buy liquid yeast online.

befus said:

Good advice no doubt (and I actually ordered Thurs. morning), but it may not have made any difference this time possibly. The yeast has been in a starter on the stir plate for over 14 hours with no activity whatsoever. With the actual temp at 105 yesterday, and in the high 90's the previous two days, there is no telling what the temp in the UPS truck was or the three hours it sat on my red tiled porch. My guess is that it exceeded 120F and that yeast is cooked. It smelled awful when I opened the fully inflated unsmacked pack last evening. I'll give it till tomorrow, but my hopes are pretty much bleak at this time.

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When you are unsure about your yeast it's important to check the gravity of the starter wort before and after to see if it dropped any.
Let it run for 24 hours, chill then decant and run a step up. I bet you will get some activity.

How dare the weather make the ice pack melt. Shennanigans! I'm grabbing my pitch fork and going after Austin home brew!

Wait what?


They don't control the ****ing weather. If your that worried about it, overnight it.

I thought one of the big online retailers had some super freeze pouch as a more expensive option than the small pack. I may be making that up. Although I'm sure your yeast is fine, it's the one product I don't like to order online when it's hot, just in case. It's 104F here today which means in a UPS truck it's hotter than that.

ReverseApacheMaster said:

I thought one of the big online retailers had some super freeze pouch as a more expensive option than the small pack. I may be making that up. Although I'm sure your yeast is fine, it's the one product I don't like to order online when it's hot, just in case. It's 104F here today which means in a UPS truck it's hotter than that.

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This is true! It's like a mini-ice chest that they put the yeast and cold pack in. I would imagine it retains temps much better, but I never chose the option due to cost. Don't quote me on this, but I believe it's Midwest that offers it...

phoenixs4r said:

How dare the weather make the ice pack melt. Shennanigans! I'm grabbing my pitch fork and going after Austin home brew!
Look phoenixass I didn't blame them, nor did I go after them, I put in the title I was mad at me. I do think it very poor business to ship liquid yeast on a Friday, in Texas, in the summer knowing it wasn't going anywhere until Monday, when your idea of environment protected shipping is a couple of ice cubes in a baggie before throwing it in an oven for the weekend.

Wait what?
They don't control the ****ing weather. If your that worried about it, overnight it.

No, but they do know they are shipping a fragile biological product and it's 100+ outside and they are making only the most superfluous effort of shipping the yeast in a cool environment.

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I've learned my lesson and you may, if you'll excuse my dropping into the vernacular, buzz off.

phoenixs4r said:

How dare the weather make the ice pack melt. Shennanigans! I'm grabbing my pitch fork and going after Austin home brew!

Wait what?


They don't control the ****ing weather. If your that worried about it, overnight it.

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The problem with your statement is the fact that these vendors market these products in such a manner that make a person believe or assume that the cold pack will work to keep the yeast cool during warmer conditions. The vendors don't care if your cold pack melts nor if the yeast get hot. They just want to make money. They're not going to throw out a disclaimer saying the fancy little cold packs they sell are useless in summer. So, unfortunately it's a case of.. First time, shame on you - Second time, shame on me!

Why don't they use dry ice? That's how frozen food ships.

MisterTipsy said:

Why don't they use dry ice? That's how frozen food ships.

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Perhaps a cost or packaging issue? Just guessing...

EDIT: Plus that might actually freeze the yeast..

It is colder than ice, so maybe it would freeze it.

It's just CO2, so it can't be too spendy.

Stauffbier said:

The problem with your statement is the fact that these vendors market these products in such a manner that make a person believe or assume that the cold pack will work to keep the yeast cool during warmer conditions. The vendors don't care if your cold pack melts nor if the yeast get hot. They just want to make money. They're not going to throw out a disclaimer saying the fancy little cold packs they sell are useless in summer. So, unfortunately it's a case of.. First time, shame on you - Second time, shame on me!

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Amen brother Stauffbier! I really am not that upset with them. I would, were I them, just not accept orders for yeast after Tuesday or Wednesday if the shipping zone couldn't be reached by Friday. Or if it took such orders I'd just not ship until Monday. Really though your comment on the cold packs is correct. Save your money, I guarantee they are room temp before they leave ABS, or any vendor, this time of year. In any other business when a live product is shipped the arrival of viable product is guarenteed, or a replacement is immediately shipped at the vendor's expense. My guess is that if this were the case we'd see something quite different from the "cold" packs used for shipping.

They could use these gel packs

http://www.coldice.com/gel_packs_coldice.html

MisterTipsy said:

They could use these gel packs

http://www.coldice.com/gel_packs_coldice.html

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I believe those are very similar to the cold packs in question here..

I get all my liquid yeast at the LHBS and thought the shippers were using water ice.

MisterTipsy said:

I get all my liquid yeast at the LHBS and thought the shippers were using water ice.

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I cut one open from Austin before, and it seemed to be something between water and a gel of some kind..

I actually save mine and re-freeze them to use in my swamp coolers.

Heere is the all weather cold pack. It and the yeast are in the plastic bag it is sitting on. Highly insulated for Texas summer temps.

The cold pack is not the issue, the lack of insulation is.
I used to receive biologics 1x week year round and in the summer it was common for them to sit in 90-100f weather for 2-3 days and still be viable. These were blood control samples for cbc analyzers (complete blood count). They were shipped Fed ex in a 2” thick Styrofoam single use coolers with cold pack on the top. I would estimate the cost of the container at $5-7

A little common sense goes a long way; I think everyone has used “blue ice” packs and understand their limitation…. or should. The cold packs shipped with yeast are smaller and don’t last very long. If this is the first time you have ordered yeast with a cold pack then you get a pass, if not well…

Suggestion, try Rebel brewer, they are closer to you. I am in Ct and delivery is 2 days they tend to pack yeast in the middle of the box when possible. I have bought from them several times and have been satisfied. I used to order from AHS but the speed of shipping makes Rebel brewer my first choice.


if your starter fails to ferment call ahs and ask them to ship another yeast pack, but wait till Monday to request this.
Scott

scott06903 said:

The cold pack is not the issue, the lack of insulation is.
if your starter fails to ferment call ahs and ask them to ship another yeast pack, but wait till Monday to request this.
Scott

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befus said:

Heere is the all weather cold pack. It and the yeast are in the plastic bag it is sitting on. Highly insulated for Texas summer temps.

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Got a bunch of those in my freezer.

IffyG said:

I hate to say it, but this is why I refuse to order liquid yeast during the warm months. I imagine that the 'cold pack' is pretty much spent by the time the package gets from AHS to the UPS hub. (Ever been in the back of a truck in the summer? I have and I can tell you it's hot as hell...).

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Same here.
Regards, GF.

I did call ABS and they were their usual very helpful selves. They had only Denny's F. that had already begun to swell (?) and thus will ship a replacement Scottish 1728. I do believe they were going to go through the whole ship on Friday thing again until I requested that they please, please wait till Monday to ship. He went into a story of how two years ago when it was so hot in August they shipped USPS to Canada and it took two weeks to arrive and was fine. Apparently five days to Arkansas is a worse fate . Anyway he said he would put that in the request, so we shall see. They are always helpful there, but I still shake my head at the lack of insulation, which I guess is the norm everywhere.

Business opportunity here for someone. Make small insulated shipping containers with space specifically made for a container of liquid yeast and a cold pack.
Retailers can offer that as an option for people who want it. It would still be cheaper for me considering my nearest HBS is 60 miles away.

I use the AHS cold packs, but then again, I'm in Texas and get my orders the day after they ship. The cold pack is melted in the summer, but still around 80 degrees F or so when I unpack.