Porters and Stouts: Soy Sauce Flavor

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Torchiest

Torchiest

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Okay, I'm drinking Breckenridge's Oatmeal Stout, and it's not bad, but not amazing, and I'm noticing this odd flavor. It's sorta roasty, but somewhat like soy sauce. I've tasted it before in porters, and I'm trying to figure out what causes it. Would it be considered an off-flavor, or is it from a particular grain, or what? It's really strange.
 
I have not had that particular beer so I am not sure. I would imagine that the flavor you are tasting is inherent in one of the dark roasted grains. Possibly Black Patent malt. Either way the robust porters that I have had are pretty smokey tasting.
 
No idea. I've gotten that flavor in young stouts/porters when made with extract. Maybe oxidation? I've had that particular beer before and I can't recall that flavor, but it has been probably about a year since I've had one, so maybe I just forgot. I think their vanilla porter is much better than the oatmeal stout.
 
Yeah, I think I remember the soy sauce taste with Samual Smith's Taddy Porter, but I haven't had that beer in years. The Breckenridge Vanilla Porter is great, btw.
 
The last few times I had the Breckenridge Oatmeal Stout, I noticed a faint sour note near the finish that accentuated that soy flavor.

I've generally suspected that flavor was a combination of the dark grains, dark caramel malts, ph, some oxidation, ect. There is an interesting thread over on ratebeer that offered a suggestion that glutamate (a byproduct of yeast fermentation and primary source of the savory flavor of soy sauce) could be present in higher levels of the beers that have that soy sauce note. Glutamic acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I'd be curious to see more info or know if there was any stock in the whole umami concept applied to these beers....
 
What temperature is the beer?

I tend to taste a soy sauce flavor in stouts and porters when they are cold straight out of the fridge. By sheer luck, my friends and I were blessed by the great brewers of Terrapin with around 20 cases of their India Brown Ale (underfilled bottles that couldn't be sold). I'm the only one that drinks it now. They all call it the soy sauce beer.

Let one warm up on the counter for 10-15 minutes and see if you taste the same thing.
 
Edcculus said:
What temperature is the beer?

I tend to taste a soy sauce flavor in stouts and porters when they are cold straight out of the fridge. By sheer luck, my friends and I were blessed by the great brewers of Terrapin with around 20 cases of their India Brown Ale (underfilled bottles that couldn't be sold). I'm the only one that drinks it now. They all call it the soy sauce beer.

Let one warm up on the counter for 10-15 minutes and see if you taste the same thing.
Click to expand...

Yes, they have been right out of the fridge. I'll try that idea tonight after work.
 
A guy a while ago was asking about this. If you look on the beer wheel, meaty flavors are supposedly tied to yeast. I concur with brewtool assertion that it is linked to glutamic acid. Umami is not a myth, it is a fact. Some people are just way more sensitive to it. If you like foods like tomatoes, mushrooms and seaweed you like Umami. It is possibly the combination of flavors, along with other factors allowing you to perceive the glutamic acid. That would be my guess, well that and you are probably fairly sensitive to it.

You could do an experiment. Buy a small amount of msg from an Oriental grocer. Take a few grains and add it to a beer and then see if you get the same perception.
 
phissionkorps said:
Sorry, science says otherwise.
SpringerLink - Journal Article
Click to expand...


Meh...Who listens to Jerry Springer anyway? :D

I think there's too much evidence in support of the taste being perceived...I mean it's been discussed for 100 years after all...

as a cook I can really appreciate being able to bring it forth in a dish I produce...it doesn't happen in all my dishes, but I know when I manage to nail it...

I would have love to have been here;

UMAMI Information Center - New Frontiers of Taste Umami Symposium

This is cool....http://www.umamiinfo.com/images/stories/news/pdf/SF_event_report.pdf

This is from the panel discussion notes on the pdf.

Human milk is actually very high in glutamate. So the breastfed infant is getting an experience that is very different from that of a formula‐fed infant. The other issue I thought was extremely interesting is the persistence and mouth feel that umami gives, which is quite different from that of the other 4 basic tastes in that there is almost a tactile sense. And writers in the 1950’s and 1940’s in the U.S. always
honed in on the fact that not only does umami have taste and a chicken‐y sort of flavor, but that it gives body and depth to food.
There is no question that finding the receptors for glutamate on the tongue, beginning around 1999, has clarified the fact that this really is something that is profoundly important, but I still think we don’t quite understand all the ramifications of those discoveries.
Click to expand...
 
We can have the umami discussion somewhere else. While it is slightly pertanent, I don't think thats the main source of those soy sauce flavors.

Soy sauce is a fermented sauce made from soy beans, roasted grain, water and salt. While there may be some linkage from the umami taste, I'm more apt to believe its from the roasted grain. Especially since I've only heard people compare darker beer to soy sauce.

Maybe its a combo of both. All I know is that when I've tasted an ice cold stout or porter, I can SEE where people might get the perception of soy sauce. Someone also told me that my Old Chub tasted like soy sauce too.
 
I'm drinking a Breckenridge Oatmeal Stout now. I let it sit out for about fifteen minutes before opening it, and lo and behold, the soy flavor is missing. The roastiness and bitterness and more prominent, and it's generally quite a bit better tasting. Thanks, Eddculus, for the suggestion.
 
my only experience with this is a friend describing my robust porter as tasting like soy sauce. while I didnt perceive this flavor I know for a fact I screwed the mash Ph on it, I added CaSO4 when I should have added CaCO3 because of the dark grains and neutral water I had. its entirely possible it was simply the grain bill since this friend isnt a fan of any darker beers but since I screwed up the Ph I think it has more to do with overly acidic dark beers.
 

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