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They are rated for this application; follow the links to see the specs. To be sure I double check w/ switchcraft and they confirmed they are good for exactly what I had in mind and I've never had a problem so far they don't even get warm...
They are like $4 for the outlets and $6 for the plugs.


Connectors STRAIGHT CORD PLUG
Panel mount power Outlet

Awesome! This is going to save me so much space on my control panel! Thanks for the tip!
 
Yes, even though it is a male plug the contacts are on the inside of the barrle and are not exposed, male or female, cord end or panle mount this type of conection keeps all of the contaacts safely covered. It is not uncomen to do "hot patches" wirh these at an events such as rock shows when a light or an amp goes down. not as much as they once were but rocks are still seat of the pants and Switchcraft knows this.

Thanks. From what I can tell, the panel mounts are always female. So if you have, say, a 230V 4-wire input, a 230V 3-wire output, and a 115V 3-wire output on the panel, it's not quite as idiot-proof as it would be if you had different receptacles for each. Is that correct? Labels and/or color-coding would certainly help. Any other tricks?
 
jeffmeh said:
Thanks. From what I can tell, the panel mounts are always female. So if you have, say, a 230V 4-wire input, a 230V 3-wire output, and a 115V 3-wire output on the panel, it's not quite as idiot-proof as it would be if you had different receptacles for each. Is that correct? Labels and/or color-coding would certainly help. Any other tricks?

I didn't look into that, I have a hard wired 10/4 coming out of my spa panel to my CP and then two 10/3 lengths from the CP the power the elements so nothing for me to confuse. I kept the basic wall plugs for my pumps. I guess I'd use different color e-tape and labels to keep it all straight
 
I assume all the brands there on Mouser under the loud speaker connections are universal....So if you wanted a female "cable mount" instead of/in addition to the female control panel mount, the other brands would work fine?
 
I assume all the brands there on Mouser under the loud speaker connections are universal....So if you wanted a female "cable mount" instead of/in addition to the female control panel mount, the other brands would work fine?

That should be true. Also, I might have implied that switchcraft designed this type of connection; they did not. They just make a less expensive version, mouser is a dealer for the company that did (it's name escapes me at the moment) but it was a dollars or two more so I went w/ switchcraft. There maybe a few manufacture of this type of connection but be sure (as always) to check the specs I think some I looked at were under rated for this application.
 
Since these plugs are universal, if power was sent to the "out" port on a control panel rather than the "in" port, would that be considered dangerous and/or fry the unit some how?
 
Since these plugs are universal, if power was sent to the "out" port on a control panel rather than the "in" port, would that be considered dangerous and/or fry the unit some how?
Depends on how things are wired, but there's a good chance that yes, putting power into an output receptacle is never a good thing.

I would recommend always designing such that you CAN'T do this by accident. Doesn't matter how well you label things, accidents always happen. Brew days are hectic, brewers have had a few beers, hands are wet, plug something into
the wrong receptacle, not a good combination.

Reminds me of the Simpsons episode where groundskeeper Willie posts a small sign near a dangerous well hole that says "Caution: Well" (instead of the more sensible option of just boarding up the well).

Kal
 
Neutrik does make the STX series that has both male and female receptacles, and male and female plugs. That said, they do clearly state not to use these Speakon connectors for power mains. I know people have done so, but do we have a definitive answer as to whether this is really safe and appropriate?
 
That said, they do clearly state not to use these Speakon connectors for power mains. I know people have done so, but do we have a definitive answer as to whether this is really safe and appropriate?
You just answered your own question. The manufacturer says that these should not be used for power mains. They are not rated for use with power mains. It is therefore not appropriate to use them for power mains.

This topic has come up in the past and the general idea is that the breakdown voltage of 1500V AC isn't high enough. It needs to be about double (2300V by the old standard, 3000V by the new). There's likely a whole pile of other testing/regulations that must be adhered to to have a connector be rated for power mains usage. Things that most people do not or should not have to know about like how the connector behaves over 1000's of inserts/extractions, contact surface and how it behaves if there's some corrosion, etc. Please don't just look at the "specs" and try to summize that since the specs seem to be adequate that you can therefore safely use a product meant for application "X" in application "Y". It's never that straight forward.

Loudspeakers cables see very little voltage/current on average. There are peaks but never a continuous current of (say) 25-50A. An industrial audio power amplifier like the ones meant to be used with these loudspeaker cables may be rated at being able to put out 1000-2000W of power but 99.9% of the time the speaker only sees a fraction of a single watt. Even if you're playing music extremely loud most of the time the amp floats around putting out less than a watt of power. It's only during a loud slam (like a drum pedal hit) where the amp is required to instantaneously put out a ton of watts for a split second. The power drops right off then.

These things are as inexpensive as they are because they are simply not rated for continuous high power mains usage. That requires a whole other level of regulation/testing/etc. I'm sure they are very good loudspeaker connectors but power mains connectors they are not. They are not a straight substitute for power mains connectors.

Since the manufacturer specifically states that these are "loudspeaker connectors" and not meant for mains power connectors, that would be the only answer I need. I wouldn't use them myself. YMMV.

Kal
 
The one's I picked up are rated at 30amp continuous power per UL Standard 1977 on Component Connectors for Use in Data, Signal, Control and Power Applications.

It's may be complete ignorance on my part, but it seems like using these between the control panel and elements would be an acceptable application for these connectors.
 
Kal, this was the responce from switchcraft's engineering regarding their HPCC4F & HPCP41F outlets and plugs, did I not ask the right question or miss something in their responce? (My question is on the bottom).


Linda Schlie [email protected]
Feb 24

to me

We have received your email. I forwarded to engineering please read below.
Sales Dept.
Linda Schlie
Switchcraft

The connectors are rated for 50 A (for the Fast-on terminal type) and 1500 VAC rms. There should be no problem with the customer's application.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 1:06 PM
To: Ray Edison
Subject: Switchcraft.com Website Inquiry

The following inquiry came from the www.switchcraft.com website:

From: Noah
Company: CBL LTD
Address:xxx
City: xxx
State: NY
Country: USA
Zip/Postal Code: xxxx
Email: [email protected]
Phone: xxxxxxxxxx
Function: Other

Comments:
Can these connectors be used in the supplying of 220 Volts, 30 amps of power to a 5500 watt heating element for a sustained times of, let’s say 3 to 5 hours? I’d like to use them in a very small brewery.
HPCC4F
HPCP41F


Requested CAD (STEP) file: False
Requested email updates: False

Catalog Requests:
Electronic Design Guide - False
Conxall Catalog - False
Sensorlink Catalog - False
Pro Audio Guide - False
 
Kal, this was the responce from switchcraft's engineering regarding their HPCC4F & HPCP41F outlets and plugs, did I not ask the right question or miss something in their responce? (My question is on the bottom).
Nope. But unless I'm confusing the Switchcraft product with some other ones, it seems to contradict what others are saying the manufacturer already stated (that it shouldn't be used for mains power). Either I'm getting my threads mixed up (wouldn't be the first time!) or the person/people who responded to the email below are incorrect.

Kal
 
Neutrik has the explicit disclaimer (they also have the solution that would allow for different power in / out receptacles to eliminate the potential for user error). I have not seen the disclaimer on the Switchcraft products. I'm intrigued, but would likely go with something clearly rated for the application.
 
Nope. But unless I'm confusing the Switchcraft product with some other ones, it seems to contradict what others are saying the manufacturer already stated (that it shouldn't be used for mains power). Either I'm getting my threads mixed up (wouldn't be the first time!) or the person/people who responded to the email below are incorrect.

Kal

I think that that was in references to Speakon products by Neutrik Inc who developed this plug pattern.
Switchcraft’s plug pattern is compatible (same male>female configuration) and are sometimes generically referred to Speakon plugs and/or outlets but they do not have the same specs.

I wanted something that was as small as possible and remembered using this type of product in my former life as a freelance event electrician. I called a master electrician I use to work with (who is now a very important Broadway master electrician) and he told me what to use. I still contacted switchcraft to double check. I too approached these with skepticism partly when I saw the retail price but it appears that they are rated for this application which is different the other compatible plugs and outlets.

But let me follow with this:
Are the switchcraft’s plugs and receptacles as durable as the twist locks you list on your build maybe not and if I were the standard bearer for the electric home brewery movement I might have to have remained skeptical too.

If I am read the specs wrong, the links are posted above, please let everyone know (regardless of what their engineer told me).-Noah
 
Do stage shows also use them for lighting or just for speakers/sound? I would think some of those high intensity lights would pull a pretty good amount of current. Many of those spotlights/panels of lights would be on continuously as well, not just pulling spikes of power every once in a while. Just thinking out loud here....
 
Switchcraft certainly stands behind using the HPC (High Power Connector) series for this type of use. In addition to the email cited above, from the product sheet:

Markets
• Loudspeakers
• Power audio amplifiers
• Medical
• Process Controls

From the specs:

High Power Connector, 30 A Current Rating, Silver-Plated over Copper Alloy Contact Material
30 A Rating Per UL 1977 on PC Mount Versions
50 A Rating Per UL 1977 on Faston® Versions
1500 VAC (RMS)

I am still a bit leery of power inlets and outlets with the same configuration, but I might consider using the panel mounts as an inlet to the control panel and an inlet to the element. With a NEMA 14-30 plug on the other end of the control panel power cord, and a NEMA 6-30 plug on the other end of the element power cord, even I could not screw that up. :)

Edit: I could also use it as an inlet to a spa panel with another 14-30 plug on the other end.
 
Just so I'm not confused, which male and female are safe for 30a and which are safe for 50a?
 
Just so I'm not confused, which male and female are safe for 30a and which are safe for 50a?

Per the specs, the PCB mount ones for 30a, and the Faston ones for 50a, although I am certifying neither. :)
 
jeffmeh said:
Per the specs, the PCB mount ones for 30a, and the Faston ones for 50a, although I am certifying neither. :)

Fast-on are the blade connections, I I'm trying to attach an image but if it's not there follow the link.
http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/media/1107h-outlined.jpg

1107h-outlined.jpg
 
The pricing on the still dragon element holder is pretty good. Wish I had seen this sooner.
 
I am going to weld on a 2" coupling and just attach one of these things:

http://www.stilldragon.com/element-guard-kit-and-adapters.html
I am not sure if i am going to have the cord removable, I probably wont know until i receive this adapter exactly how it works.

That thing looks a lot like what I built for my kettle last year. Hmmm...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/keg-ekeggle-conversion-pics-259848/index2.html#post3408018

You're going to need to weld a ferrule to your kettle to use that thing, not a coupling. Permanently attach a cord to your element/kettle. Coil it up when not in use.
 
Do stage shows also use them for lighting or just for speakers/sound? I would think some of those high intensity lights would pull a pretty good amount of current. Many of those spotlights/panels of lights would be on continuously as well, not just pulling spikes of power every once in a while. Just thinking out loud here....

When I used to DJ, we used Neutrik Speakon connectors almost exclusively for sound, but did have a lighting rig or two that used them for power. It wasn't very common though, and it was always a custom rig someone wired up with connectors laying around the shop. Lighting was almost always with a standard power connector.
 
How do these look? How do they compare to the Brewershardware element adapters?

ah, Unfortunately my element is 1 1/4 in npt rather than the standard 1 in npt. The still dragon adapter wont work for me:(
 
ODI3 said:
ah, Unfortunately my element is 1 1/4 in npt rather than the standard 1 in npt. The still dragon adapter wont work for me:(

Which element are you using?
 
I bought two sets of the "SwitchCraft" plugs & panel connectors off Amazon, they connect fine but don't seem to "lock" together likethey are supposed to....
 
I bought two sets of the "SwitchCraft" plugs & panel connectors off Amazon, they connect fine but don't seem to "lock" together likethey are supposed to....

I bought 2 sets directly from Mouser and they lock very well. Does your set have the metal peice on the "male" end? I can post pics later when I get home.
 
I bought two sets of the "SwitchCraft" plugs & panel connectors off Amazon, they connect fine but don't seem to "lock" together likethey are supposed to....

None of mine had a problem but I think JRems described the same/similar problem with one of his and was able to correct it with a metal file on the locking part…or something.
PM him and ask, it sounded like a quick fix it’s the same issue.
 
OK, I haven't played around with it too much. The "male plugs" both have a metal strip that is supposed to lock into the panel mount, and I looked with a flashlight down into the "female panel" connection and you can see an area where the metal strip should latch into and "lock" into place. It just doesn't actually happen. Connection stilll feels pretty solid but it would make me feel better to hear and feel that "click" when the connection is really made/locked
 
OK, I haven't played around with it too much. The "male plugs" both have a metal strip that is supposed to lock into the panel mount, and I looked with a flashlight down into the "female panel" connection and you can see an area where the metal strip should latch into and "lock" into place. It just doesn't actually happen. Connection stilll feels pretty solid but it would make me feel better to hear and feel that "click" when the connection is really made/locked

I'm sure you've already done this, but it did that a time or three with me. Once I pressed a little harder and got it to snap, it does it no problem each time now.
 
Yeah, mine almost seem opposite - thought they locked when they first arrived, then when I was fooling around with them the other day, I couldn't get them to click.
 
Seems this thread has been dead for a while but I thought I'd post my recent setup since I know what it's like to want actual pictures of setups. Got the idea from post #6 on this thread.

photo 1.jpg


photo 2.jpg


photo 3.jpg


photo 4.jpg
 
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