How easy is it to get a small sample from a conical with a butterfly valve?

I'm planning out the conical and parts that I would like to get and I'm trying to decide between valves. I like the butterfly valves (obviously), but one thing I'm not sure about is how easy it is to take a small sample for gravity reading from a 1" butterfly valve in the side of a 15gal conical. I know you can slowly open a ball valve and let out just a trickle, but a butterfly seems like it might open faster. Never having used one, I'm seeking advice from those with butterfly valve experience. Your wisdom is appreciated

Are you building/designing this conical? Why not install a butterfly on the dump, and a smaller ball valve on the racking port?

Just trying to put various pieces together. I would like to use butterfly valves for both if it's not to hard to take small samples. I've been looking at some on:

http://www.glaciertanks.com

and they have pretty good prices. I'm ok with spending a little more for easier to clean valves, but I also want them to do the job well.

IMO they behave similarly to ball valves in regards to your requirements. Neither work that well. They (the butterflys) are better for other reasons though. I don't think you'll notice a difference either way.

From Brewer's Hardware Site:

Since butterfly valves tend to be more of an on-off, ball valves tend to do a better job at controlling flow rates than tri clover butterfly valves. We usually recommend butterfly valves at vessel outlets and on fermenters and tri clover ball valves on pump outlets and vessle returns like mash tun sparge and vorlauf returns.

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If it's flowing into a pump, I use a butterfly valve, if it's flowing out of a pump, i use a ball valve.

jimmayhugh said:

Since butterfly valves tend to be more of an on-off, ball valves tend to do a better job at controlling flow rates than tri clover butterfly valves. We usually recommend butterfly valves at vessel outlets and on fermenters and tri clover ball valves on pump outlets and vessle returns like mash tun sparge and vorlauf returns.

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That makes sense. The "more of an on-off" part is what I was worried about.

The other reason I'd rather not use a ball valve for taking samples is that I know there is liquid that gets trapped in the ball when it is closed. If I'm taking a very small sample just for a refractometer reading and a small taste, I'm going to get a lot of that trapped liquid, and it seems like it wont be the best representation of the majority of the fermenting beer. I don't really know how it will be different, but it's separated in an enclosed space... Also, If I want to add oak chips to a beer and taste how that is progressing, I'll get all of that trapped beer that hasn't been absorbing the oak flavors in my daily sample.

Another thing I'm looking at is this sample valve:
http://www.glaciertanks.com/TriClamp_Sampler_Valve-TriClamp_1_1_2_x_1_2_Sampler_Valve.html

Seems made exactly for taking samples, but I'm not sure how well it will work for emptying the beer into kegs. Probably it's fine, but it may be annoying that it is slow to open and close. And I'm not sure how easy these are to clean. I don't really know how the mechanism works. Seems like a garden hose valve? Anyone ever used one of these sample valves?

Hmm. I was assuming that the sample valve turned like a garden hose faucet, but maybe it just pulls in and out? That would make it able to open and close quickly if needed...

I have a butterfly valve on the racking port of my conical and I have no problem getting a small sample from it. Its definitely not all-or-nothing, it might not be as easy to get a certain flow rate but if you are just looking for a few hundred mls for a gravity sample its no problem. I think they are a little nicer as far as quickly being able to remove the valve for cleaning, although I must admit that I have just been leaving them in place and using the CIP on the whole system.

Lennie said:

I have a butterfly valve on the racking port of my conical and I have no problem getting a small sample from it. Its definitely not all-or-nothing, it might not be as easy to get a certain flow rate but if you are just looking for a few hundred mls for a gravity sample its no problem. I think they are a little nicer as far as quickly being able to remove the valve for cleaning, although I must admit that I have just been leaving them in place and using the CIP on the whole system.

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Thanks for the info! Good to know its possible. Seems like it might just take a little more control to make sure it doesn't open to much. I was thinking more like 10 or 20 ml samples though. Just enough for a refractometer and a sip.

I probably just need to find one that I can play with...

The better clean in place is definitely a plus for butterflys

Got some info on that sample valve if anyone is interested.

My email:
"I was wondering how exactly the SMP-50-150 - TriClamp 1 1/2" x 1/2" Sampler Valve works. Do you twist it like a garden hose valve to open and close it, or does it just pull in and out? How sanatary is it and how easy to clean? Does the center part with the knob come all the way out for easier cleaning? Thanks for your help."

Response:
"operates just like a water faucet and completely removable for cleaning, hope this helps…"


So, it sounds like it's easy to clean and easy to get a sample, but probably not very fast at turning fully on and off.

What you need is a sampling valve. They make them to fit the 1/2" to 3/4" triclover ferrule. It has a knurled delrin knob that micro adjust out when turning counter clockwise. There are some guys selling them on the bay, but the prices are outrageous, I think they are high, after all it is 4-20 today. I have this one if you are interested. I am assuming you are designing or are building a stainless conical. It would be hard to do this weldless on a plastic tank. EDIT....I just noticed the post about the sampling valve from Glacier tanks. Definitely would be slow to transfer, only for samples. Mine is 1/2" triclover by 1/4" barb, Wausheeka triclover brand, definitely only for samples.
P.M. me if interested.

gunmetal said:

What you need is a sampling valve. They make them to fit the 1/2" to 3/4" triclover ferrule. It has a knurled delrin knob that micro adjust out when turning counter clockwise. There are some guys selling them on the bay, but the prices are outrageous, I think they are high, after all it is 4-20 today. I have this one if you are interested. I am assuming you are designing or are building a stainless conical. It would be hard to do this weldless on a plastic tank. EDIT....I just noticed the post about the sampling valve from Glacier tanks. Definitely would be slow to transfer, only for samples. Mine is 1/2" triclover by 1/4" barb, Wausheeka triclover brand, definitely only for samples.
P.M. me if interested.

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Yea, I'm leaning towards the sampling valve from glacier. It seems to be the best for everything that I want. The conical I'm getting has 1.5" TC connections though, and I also want a sampling valve with a 1/2" barb. Thanks though.

My roommate just made me realized that I could just put a butterfly between the racking port and the sample valve. That way when it's time to actually rack I can close the butterfly, remove the sampling valve and attach a regular hose barb. That plan also lets me just get the sampling valve at first and see how it works for racking, then add on the butterfly if it doesn't work well