Low efficiency problems.

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Big Al

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At least I got to brew twice today, but as I'm still new to AG I'm having problems with my efficiency.

I brewed an Arrogant Bastard Clone recipe last night with a target OG of 1.078 at 75% efficiency

I ended up with 1.069 65%(Better than my 1st attempt of 1.060)

Today I brewed an IPA target OG 1.071 at 75% actual (1.061) 65%

I'm using a new Mash Tun which is a 48 qt rectangular cooler. My questions are:

1) Should I just expect lower efficiency from the rectangular cooler and plan accordingly?
2) What can I do to improve my efficiency.

Both were Single Temperature Infusion Mashes at 152 degrees for 1 hour. I sparged at 170 degrees and collected about 6.2 gallons of wort which boiled down to right around 5 Gals.

It's not the crush either, I'm grinding my own and couldnt' be happier with the results from my MaltMill.

Thanks for any help in advance!
 
No. Not doing that. I did just order a pH tester as I have just been assuming that 60 minutes is long enough to date.

I'm not sure what type of adjustments I should be making though?
 
shoot for 154 deg F and how much H2O PER # of grain are you using? Crush is very important as well. you say its not the crush but how do you really know?
JJ
 
Have you tried the 5.2 buffer yet? I'm using that and grinding my own and hitting over 85%. Water chemistry is a big part of efficiency. I don't think the shape of the tun makes much difference. Water to grain ratio is important as well.
 
1.5 qts to lbs.

I know it's not the grain crush because I've seen pictures of what a perfect crush looks like. Mine is coming out very similar. Having researched a bit on the net, I'm also thinking that my sparge might be too fast (there's a joke there I'm sure). As I'm new to this, i'm not sure if it's normal to have collected the wort in about 35 minutes after the sparge begins? Is that too fast?

I'll start looking into the 5.2 buffer as well.
 
Aha. This may be a key. I'm using bottled spring water as my water. I just saw the pH 5.2 at austin home brew and I think I'll order some. Perhaps that's contributing to my problem.
 
Big Al said:
1.5 qts to lbs.

I know it's not the grain crush because I've seen pictures of what a perfect crush looks like. Mine is coming out very similar. Having researched a bit on the net, I'm also thinking that my sparge might be too fast (there's a joke there I'm sure). As I'm new to this, i'm not sure if it's normal to have collected the wort in about 35 minutes after the sparge begins? Is that too fast?

I'll start looking into the 5.2 buffer as well.


Are you batch sparging or fly sparging? 35 minutes would be way to fast for fly sparging. Try to slow your flow rate down to half that and your efficiency would go way up. If batch sparging, tell us your procedure.
 
jdoiv said:
Are you batch sparging or fly sparging? 35 minutes would be way to fast for fly sparging. Try to slow your flow rate down to half that and your efficiency would go way up. If batch sparging, tell us your procedure.
Yeah, the sparge is the first place to look. If you're fly sparging why not try a two runoff batch sparge instead. You should be able to get 75% efficiency fairly easily with that method. Fly sparging should give you higher efficiency if you do it right, but less if you don't.
 
I'm batch sparging because it's easier I think. I did 2 sparges of 2 gallons each (Total grain bill was 13 lbs)

Mixed in the 2 gallons, stirring while mixing in the water. Let it settle and then drained it off. When it was drained I added the 2nd batch of 2 gallons and did the same thing.
 
You can play around with your sparging technique as much as you like but as long as you aren't doing anything really stupid at the moment you aren't going to gain that much, it's a very forgiving process. Get the PH right and the rest is easy. You have to have the sugars available in the tun first place before you can remove them. The right mash ph makes for a much more efficient conversion, that's the first place to look.
 
Big Al said:
I'm batch sparging because it's easier I think. I did 2 sparges of 2 gallons each (Total grain bill was 13 lbs)

Mixed in the 2 gallons, stirring while mixing in the water. Let it settle and then drained it off. When it was drained I added the 2nd batch of 2 gallons and did the same thing.
You aren't using enough sparge water. You should use about 1/2 gallon per pound of grain so with 13 pounds of grain you are looking at 6 1/2 gallons of water.
I'm betting this is your primary reason your efficiency is suffering.
 
RichBrewer said:
You aren't using enough sparge water. You should use about 1/2 gallon per pound of grain so with 13 pounds of grain you are looking at 6 1/2 gallons of water.
I'm betting this is your primary reason your efficiency is suffering.

I agree. You could also try a slightly stiffer mash, so you wouldn't end up with too much wort, that would need to be boiled down. I use about 1 qt per pound of grain, but most others use about 1.25 qt per pound.

-a.
 
RichBrewer said:
You aren't using enough sparge water. You should use about 1/2 gallon per pound of grain so with 13 pounds of grain you are looking at 6 1/2 gallons of water.
I'm betting this is your primary reason your efficiency is suffering.

I've been doing some additional reading since my last two brews and I think this is probably the case (along with the pH since I'm using bottled spring water).

The boiling off part shouldn't be a problem. I have no problem boiling for longer than 60 minutes if need be although I can't get much more than 7 1/2 gallons in my brewpot (It's 9 Gallons). I'm brewing the 777 Rye IPA next week sometime and I'll give these two things a shot. I'm thinking about just biting the bullet and ordering a keggle from Ebay as well. I saw one for $125 that I could just use for the boil and not be concerned with the large amount of wort.

Thanks to everyone who's given feedback. This is why I love this board! There is no way I could have gone from Mr. Beer to All Grain in 4 months without it! :mug:
 
I know your batch sparging, but a word about speed.

I was able to get an extra 4 points of gravity from the same grain bill/mash profile, just by sparging slower. Just a trickle for about an hour. Keeping the grain bed hydrated.

On the other hand if you use more water, correct your pH, AND the target gravity still isn't high enough- maybe you just need more grain.
 
Big Al said:
I'm batch sparging because it's easier I think. I did 2 sparges of 2 gallons each (Total grain bill was 13 lbs)

Mixed in the 2 gallons, stirring while mixing in the water. Let it settle and then drained it off. When it was drained I added the 2nd batch of 2 gallons and did the same thing.

The other responses about more sparge water are important, but you don't mention how long you let it rest before draining the sparge water. I don't batch sparge, but my understanding is that you should add the sparge water, stir the heck out of it and let it rest for 10 to 15 minutes before draining. This gets the sugars out of the husks and into solution. If you aren't giving it enough time to dissolve then this would make a huge difference in efficiency.
 
jdoiv said:
The other responses about more sparge water are important, but you don't mention how long you let it rest before draining the sparge water. I don't batch sparge, but my understanding is that you should add the sparge water, stir the heck out of it and let it rest for 10 to 15 minutes before draining. This gets the sugars out of the husks and into solution. If you aren't giving it enough time to dissolve then this would make a huge difference in efficiency.

I heard an interview with Denny Conn and he has experimented with this, and he claims it is another homebrew myth. He says just stir and give it a short rest of a few minutes. It does seem to make sense that it shouldn't take long for the converted sugars to dissolve into the sparge water if mixed well (that could be more of an issue, perhaps).
 
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