Easy Partial Mash Brewing (with pics)

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dunnright00 said:
What should I do if, during the mash my temp drops too much. Add some heated water? I shouldn't add heat to the pot?
Click to expand...

Define: "too much"

My mash used to drop to 140°F every time I let it sit more than 30 minutes or so. By that time, enzymatic activity is pretty much finished anyway. I didn't worry about it and the beer always turned out great.

If you want to maintain heat, wrap the pot in some towels, pillows and/or blankets.
 
electronjunkie said:
Thanks Deathrbrewer for this pictorial and explanation. I just brewed my beer using this method, a Belgian Blonde, and kegged it yesterday. It was my second batch ever.

OG: 1.067
FG: 1.009

Had a question though. What happens if I added heat during the Mash? It didn't really need it but I didn't know I wasn't supposed to. Grains weren't touching the bottom as far as I could tell.
Click to expand...

If you drop a few degrees below, I would not worry. It would be optimal to have it stay as close to your desired temp. Going from 153 to 150 would probably not be too much. So, "too much" is maybe vague.

I have added hot water to raise the temp instead of adding direct heat. This method will insure that if the grain is sitting on the kettle, I get NO burning of the grain.

I usually have to cool the wort because I find that MUCH easier to do. My strike water is at about 170F if the grain is at room temperature. Also, you have to factor how much grain you have. If you only have a few pounds of grain, then I would add a cooler strike temp.

If the grain goes to hot at the initial strike, I have a two liters of cold water ready and I add it gently to try to reach the 150-159...whatever range I need. Remember that you will also have to factor ambient cooling of the wort if you are not using an insulated vessel. All my mashing is done in a Gott Cooler with a SS false bottom. That makes it very easy to maintain the correct temp.
The conversion to sugar takes some time and it is easier for me to do it this way. Seems to have worked every time.

Beer is very forgiving of most mistakes.


Brew Strong!
 
Beer is very forgiving of most mistakes. Brew Strong![/QUOTE said:
thats very true but dang when you made the ultimate batch and the temp was off just make sure you write it down so you can duplicate.it wll still be good if hotter just maybe maltier and maybe to your liking....i have tried a few recipes hotter and colder and i like them better that way..maltier on some and drier on others..Jeff
Click to expand...
 
Just bottled the Dunkel today, OG was 1.052, FG was 1.018. Not quite as low as I would have liked it, but after three weeks I was running out of time for this event I planned it for so I called it close enough.
 
DeathBrewer said:
Define: "too much"

My mash used to drop to 140°F every time I let it sit more than 30 minutes or so. By that time, enzymatic activity is pretty much finished anyway. I didn't worry about it and the beer always turned out great.

If you want to maintain heat, wrap the pot in some towels, pillows and/or blankets.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was trying to mash at 150, and it dropped to 148 so, I guess it was ok.

This was my first time using a big grain bag, like the one you have in the pictorial. Before that I had a regular steeping bag, and I think it came out much better this time. It was really hard to gage my temps with the seeping bags.
 
I'm a beginner, having only brewed an Obsidian stout once using a similar partial mash method but sticking to the recipe exactly, it turned out great! I now have a mac & jacks recipe that claims to be a true partial mash. Anyway, it specifies the mash water quantity at 3 quarts and then specifies the sparge water at 6 quarts. I am boiling in a 6 gallon turkey fryer and I would think that more sparge water would only improve the conversion efficiency which would be good, right? Thing is, I would then be boiling and adding hops to a larger volume of water. Is there a downside to this? I would like to use 2 or three gallons of sparge water and then add water to the fermeneter to hit 5 gallons near the end.

Thanks!
 
Depends entirely on how much grain there is. If there is a small amount, you can risk over-sparging and extracting tannins (tea-like bitterness that you don't want.)

You want your initial mash to be about 1.25-2 quarts of water per pound of grain. I usually shoot for around 1.5qt/lb.
 
3 and 1/8# of grain total. Initial mash is prescribed to be in 3 quarts of water. On one hand I want to stick to the recipe exactly but on the other hand I want the beer to be the best that it can be.
 
i have an aluminum pot that is 17in wide (60qts)... is it going to be too large for my boiling kettle? im using a propane burner that is meant for a 12" 30qt pot (going to use it to steep my grains) and is 45,000btus... i just want to make sure im not going to have too much heat loss in the larger pot and be unable to bring to a rolling boil
 
That should work fine. It really depends on how much liquid you are boiling...I'd think more head space at the top would simply trap more heat and you will have a lower risk of boil-over.
 
Hey DB I just tried the dunkel I made based on your recipe and the stove top method and I must say it came out great. Since this brew I've built a mash tun and can't wait to try it again to see if I can get a little higher effiency and abv. I started with a OG of 1.052 and ended at 1.018, if my math is right that would make it around 4.3-4.5%.
 
Thanks for the step by step instructions with pictures. I will definitely be using this technique until I can get the space and equipment to go all grain.
 
I am going to give this a go on Saturday, but before I begin, I had a few questions:

I do not have access to a grain bag as large as the one used in the original post. Would it be possible (or problematic) to divide up the grains into 5 or 6 smaller grain bags? Will this affect my efficiency?

I am using DB's Dunkel recipe. I read about fermenting in the low 60s, but I currently don't really have any method of keeping my fermentation vessel at this temperature consistently. The yeast I picked up is Wyeast activator described as producing banana-like flavours, intended to be fermented out at room temperature. Is there any insight on what may occur if I substitute this yeast into the recipe? From DB's description, banana-like flavours are not necessarily wanted in this type of beer. I am at work right now, but I will post the exact yeast pack. (The specific pack name has escaped me at the moment)

When I get to kegging this, what type of carbonation would be true to the style? I had originally intended to go for something along the lines of Oak Pond Brewing's "Laughing Loon Lager." This may only be known to people in Maine (I noticed a few posters on here from ME) As far as I know, they only sell regionally in kegs to bars and in Growlers. Anyway, I am just looking for any extra info that can be offered up, I would like to learn as much about this as possible as it is my first venture into brewing with grains.

Cheers,

-mox
 
moxie said:
I am going to give this a go on Saturday, but before I begin, I had a few questions:

I do not have access to a grain bag as large as the one used in the original post. Would it be possible (or problematic) to divide up the grains into 5 or 6 smaller grain bags? Will this affect my efficiency?

I am using DB's Dunkel recipe. I read about fermenting in the low 60s, but I currently don't really have any method of keeping my fermentation vessel at this temperature consistently. The yeast I picked up is Wyeast activator described as producing banana-like flavours, intended to be fermented out at room temperature. Is there any insight on what may occur if I substitute this yeast into the recipe? From DB's description, banana-like flavours are not necessarily wanted in this type of beer. I am at work right now, but I will post the exact yeast pack. (The specific pack name has escaped me at the moment)

When I get to kegging this, what type of carbonation would be true to the style? I had originally intended to go for something along the lines of Oak Pond Brewing's "Laughing Loon Lager." This may only be known to people in Maine (I noticed a few posters on here from ME) As far as I know, they only sell regionally in kegs to bars and in Growlers. Anyway, I am just looking for any extra info that can be offered up, I would like to learn as much about this as possible as it is my first venture into brewing with grains.

Cheers,

-mox
Click to expand...

Perhaps not for your first time, but if you rest the grains at ~122F for 20 minutes before your sachrification rest (around 150F-ish) you will do what is called a ferulic acid rest, and it will bring out the 4VG protiens which give more of a clove flavor rather than banana, this has worked well for me in the past. Of course, with this, you need to try and ferment a little on the cooler side, I use a big bucket and fill it with water, and add ice. Even at room temp, you should be getting more clove than without doing it. Some people like the banana flavor though.

As for the grain bags, that would be an interesting thing to update us on, once you've done this method a few times and get your average efficiency, if switching to a bigger bag down the road made any significant difference. One thing I would be careful of is how you seperate the grains. I have no clue if this is accurate, but you might have problems if you seperated your modified grains (with high coversion levels of proteins) with your less modified grains, the proteins might have a hard time getting to where they need to go, since it isn't all mingling together. You shouldn't run into that problem with the recipe DB reccommends. When seperating the grains, I would give a generous amount of room to move in the bags, or you might get a pseudo-thick mash from the grains being compacted together.

I haven't been to ME in a while, but I do miss the beer there. One of my favorite beers on tap was Carrabassett (sp?), which I have not found outside of Pier 1 Pizza. Mmmm, and fresh Shipyard on tap!
 
Using multiple bags might decrease your efficiency if they are too full and won't let water flow freely through them. I'm sure it will work, just don't know how well.

That yeast is fine (I'm assuming it's a German wheat yeast, hence the banana), but I would still cool your fermentation. It's easy to use a water bath, just stick your fermenter in a bucket or tub with water and keep a thermometer in the water. Keep the water at around 60°F and you're good to go. You can just keep ice packs in the freezer and throw a few in there if it gets too high. Adding potassium metabisulfite to the water will ensure no mold or mosquitoes.
 
No problem.

moxie, I should note that any german hefeweizen yeast will work great for my dunkelweizen recipe...I simply prefer the apricot and clove flavors from the WLP380 then those from the WLP300 banana.
 
DeathBrewer said:
No problem.

moxie, I should note that any german hefeweizen yeast will work great for my dunkelweizen recipe...I simply prefer the apricot and clove flavors from the WLP380 then those from the WLP300 banana.
Click to expand...

Just to clear things up, the yeast I got specifically is the Wyeast 3068, which seemed to be suitable for the recipe, although the banana description made me a bit weary.

So I should leave lots of room inside the smaller grain bags? I have 5 or 6 of them to use... I will come back with any more questions I can think of. Appreciate the help, guys.
 
Just started the activator pack, and getting my equipment together/cleaned. One thing that worries me about using several smaller grain bags is that they can not exactly clip to the sides of my pot. I am trying to figure out a good way to suspend them in the volume of water without free-floating and risking touching the bottom. (This would be detrimental to the process, right?) Maybe I can tie them to a long wooden spoon and place the spoon across the top of the pot.

Alternatively, I have a big lobster pot/canning pot that has a metal rack that fits inside... Could I just tie off the grain bags with plenty of room to move around, and then sit them inside the canning rack? Hard to explain exactly what I have, so here is a pic:

canning-pot.jpg
 
moxie said:
One thing that worries me about using several smaller grain bags is that they can not exactly clip to the sides of my pot.
Click to expand...

I am thinking of trying to go "bagless" and I have many large pots but the biggest is 4 gal. followed up by 2- 3gal.

Since the "starting water" is 2 gallons, I am wondering if I can simply bring 2 gallons to 165ish add in my 6 lbs of grain cover for an hour then use a stainless steel colander w/ my 3 gallon to "strain out" the grain. Now, I have my grain in the colander I can use it as a filter and "pseudo-sparge"
the 1st runnings through them. Dump the grain back into the 4 gallon and add in 1 1/2 gallons of 165ish water I had going in my other pot, cover for 10-15 min and simply rinse and repeat, to get a 1st, 2nd and 3rd runnings.

Will this expose me to HSA or other problems like tannis??? I do understand that this process is a bit more involved but it does not require me to hold 6 lbs of grain + water in the air while water runs out and allows me a nice "rinse and filter through the grains". Since I have all this equipment I was hoping to eliminate the need for the bag... Ideally I would end up with just over 3 gal of AG wort in my 4 gallon kettle and just over 1 gallon in each of my 3 gallon kettle to boil the hops and extract. which should place me at 5-6 gallons in the fermenter after boil off.

The smaller kettles fit really well in the sink and I can chill them fast, then pour them into the fermenter.

I am moving this weekend and would like to brew at the new place. If I get a "thumbs up" I will try this and take some pics in the process to report back.

Thanks.
 
moxie, you can tie the bags and suspend them in the water or find a way to tie them to the center. I think you should invest in a large bag, though...it'll make the process much easier.

Zamial, I've done that a few times and it works. It simply lets more particles through than would otherwise get into the wort...works fine for hefeweizens.
 
DeathBrewer said:
moxie, you can tie the bags and suspend them in the water or find a way to tie them to the center. I think you should invest in a large bag, though...it'll make the process much easier.

Zamial, I've done that a few times and it works. It simply lets more particles through than would otherwise get into the wort...works fine for hefeweizens.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what I did. I was able to find a place locally, so to make life easier and more predictable, I went with the large grain bag. Thanks again. I'll be back in about 3 weeks. :mug:
 
Excellent thread, I'm a newbie brewer, but I love the idea of being able to use PM to give myself more options than pure extract and specialty grains.

One question (with a probably obvious answer): I am a big fan of Hoppe, a beer that uses white wheat. I see that white wheat often comes with a recommendation of a protein rest. If I wanted to brew using that, would I have to have a third pot to start the white wheat in, protein rest it, and then continue with the method you've described here? Or is there some other obvious method I'm missing? I understand the two basic rests of 150/170, but could I separate out the grains that need other steps, like the white wheat, so that I don't need to get a large third pot?
 
You can do an infusion mash (add boiling water to make the jump to the next temp) or I would do a decoction mash. ProMash can help tell you how big a portion to pull to hit the next temp.

Here's a good read on it: http://www.strandbrewers.org/techinfo/decoct1.htm

Doing a step mash is not necessary for white wheat, however. Many places recommend it, and it may benefit some from it, but I rarely do a step mash with any of my hefeweizens.
 
I did my "bagless" brew as mentioned above and while it did work it was an epic PITA. I did learn alot and will simply use a bag the next time...lol. Although I am happy with the colander (and will be using it in the future if nothing more than to hold the grain bag when my arms get sore.) I did end up using a fine grain bag to filter the wort. I really liked that aspect of this experiment.

My brews are fermenting away.

The next partial batch I have planned in about 2 1/2 weeks from now. I will be following the original way much closer but I do see myself continuing to strain the wort, after it is cooled while dumping it into the fermentor. This seems to have worked really well at separating the hops and other small particles out of the wort and giving me a very clean and true quantity of pitchible wort. It also allows me to be lazy and just throw the hops/ Irish moss into the boil and I am guessing it helps aerate the wort as well. I am hopeful to end up with less trub in my primary due to the added filter step. I will know in a few days if that is true or not!
 
Hi Partial Mashers,

I have tried this method twice and am getting 48% and 49% efficiency thus far (as per Palmer calculation method, measuring SG of mash + sparge). I would love to hear some suggestions so that I can get to the bottom of this.

Here's what I did:

Essentially the same recipe as before (this thread, page 91) but I used 5.5lbs of 2-row this time and 3lbs of light DME.

I added my 7lbs of grain (crushed at LHBS) to the 5gal nylon paint bag in 9qts of 169F water one cup at a time, while stirring to prevent doughballs. That brought temp to 155 (measured by stirring, inserting glass thermometer into center of grain bag, waiting 5 min and reading). Mashed for 70min and temp fell to 148 by the end. Could the too-hot mash have lowered the efficiency that much? Drained the bag on a colander set over mash pot, then transfered the grain bag to 8.75qts 176F water and stirred the grains well. Grains lowered the temp to ~170. Sparged for 10 min and drained the bag as before. Added mash to sparge water for total of 3.5 boil gallons. Took pre-boil sample and cooled it for SG measurement. 1.030 with a hydrometer at 60F. By my calculations that's 49% efficiency.

Next time I am already planning to take an SG reading on the mash before adding it to the sparge water so that I can see which of the two steps is the source of this problem. I'm not expecting to get super-high efficiency with this method, but closer to 60% would be nice.

Thanks for any suggestions you may be able to provide.

Cheers,
Sardoman
 
Thanks for all this. Have a no-spigot cooler that will hold the 2 gallons plus 4.5# of White Wheat and pilsner malt. According to all that I've read, using the 2 gallons of mash and two gallons of sparge water, this should put me right on for a 3 gallon batch of Weizen?
 
First of all- this is an awesome thread. Thanks to DeathBrewer for sharing this wisdom with everyone. I'm a new brewer. My first two batches were extract... then after reading this post, I switched over to partial mash. I've done four batches this way now. The two that are ready to drink have turned out amazing.

Sardoman- I've been getting about 60% efficiency using this method. About the only thing (I think) that I've been doing differently than what you described is that I add all the grains at once. I just put them in my bag, then put 'em all in the water once it has reached its temp. I'm going to keep at this partial mash thing for awhile. I'd love to consistently get up to 65 or 70% efficiency.
 
Sardoman said:
Hi Partial Mashers,

I have tried this method twice and am getting 48% and 49% efficiency thus far (as per Palmer calculation method, measuring SG of mash + sparge). I would love to hear some suggestions so that I can get to the bottom of this.

Here's what I did:

Essentially the same recipe as before (this thread, page 91) but I used 5.5lbs of 2-row this time and 3lbs of light DME.

I added my 7lbs of grain (crushed at LHBS) to the 5gal nylon paint bag in 9qts of 169F water one cup at a time, while stirring to prevent doughballs. That brought temp to 155 (measured by stirring, inserting glass thermometer into center of grain bag, waiting 5 min and reading). Mashed for 70min and temp fell to 148 by the end. Could the too-hot mash have lowered the efficiency that much? Drained the bag on a colander set over mash pot, then transfered the grain bag to 8.75qts 176F water and stirred the grains well. Grains lowered the temp to ~170. Sparged for 10 min and drained the bag as before. Added mash to sparge water for total of 3.5 boil gallons. Took pre-boil sample and cooled it for SG measurement. 1.030 with a hydrometer at 60F. By my calculations that's 49% efficiency.

Next time I am already planning to take an SG reading on the mash before adding it to the sparge water so that I can see which of the two steps is the source of this problem. I'm not expecting to get super-high efficiency with this method, but closer to 60% would be nice.

Thanks for any suggestions you may be able to provide.

Cheers,
Sardoman
Click to expand...

Hi Sardoman, sorry I missed this earlier.

The one thing you can do is to take some of your sparge water and rinse the grains with it, over the mash liquid, before you dunk it in the sparge. If you have a colander, it can help to set it in that over the mash kettle and then do a pour-over. You can also increase your full sparge this way (if you use more total water) to increase your efficiency a bit.

You may also want to look into your grain crush, see if it's too broken up or not crushed enough.

Let me know if you have any more questions and let me know if you try it.
:mug:
 
What went wrong?

I used this method last week for a PM version of AHS Texas Blonde. I mashed the 2.5lb base grains at approx 1.25 qt/lb. Held the temp around 155F for 45 mins. I sparged in 2 gallons for 10-15 minutes, was probably a little too hot at 175F. Did a partial boil.

I used bottled spring water for both the boil and top-off.

End result was an extremely bitter wort and that flavor is still there after a week in primary. Was the sparge temp that hot that it extracted tannins?
 
DeathBrewer said:
Hi Sardoman, sorry I missed this earlier.

The one thing you can do is to take some of your sparge water and rinse the grains with it, over the mash liquid, before you dunk it in the sparge. If you have a colander, it can help to set it in that over the mash kettle and then do a pour-over. You can also increase your full sparge this way (if you use more total water) to increase your efficiency a bit.

You may also want to look into your grain crush, see if it's too broken up or not crushed enough.

Let me know if you have any more questions and let me know if you try it.
:mug:
Click to expand...




I would have to say it has something to do with PH or the mill of the grain. I have used your tutorial for the last two brews (almost exactly the same steps as Sardoman described) and I hit 85% AND 80% efficiency. I used Austin Homebrew Supply's premilled grain with Wall-Mart's spring water and I am getting great results. I'm mashing 5 lb of grain at 154, sparging with water that is heated to 180, sparge at 170 for 15 min., combining the two and filling the pot to the 5 gal mark to take a sample that is then cooled to 60 to get a SG of 1.030. I have yet to add more than 2.5 lb of DME to hit the desired OG.

I'm going to do an Edmund Fitzgerald Porter clone this weekend then I'm going to try Biermunchers Centennial Blond using this method as my first AG go.

Thanks Deathbrewer for the added stoke to this amazing hobby!:mug:
 
i only have a 2.5 gallon stock pot right now that is use for my extracts. but i plan on buying a larger one soon.
A) what is a great size to buy, even to move onto all grain one day?
B) can i use my 2.5 gal pot for this method? for sparging or adding grains?
thanks!
 
Gtrfrk182 said:
i only have a 2.5 gallon stock pot right now that is use for my extracts. but i plan on buying a larger one soon.
A) what is a great size to buy, even to move onto all grain one day?
B) can i use my 2.5 gal pot for this method? for sparging or adding grains?
thanks!
Click to expand...

A) The biggest stainless steel pot you can. I say a 5-6 gallon is a great size range for stove top and I have no issues with the AG stove top with a 5 and a 4 gallon pot, but it can get a bit scary and would have preferred bout 1 gallon more on each. (Oddly, these sizes ARE the pots the OP suggests! :mug:)

B) I will say yes you can use your 2.5 gallon pot but it will take forever and be a PITA. It is just to small to brew and use your time well. Can it be done? yes. Should it be done? No.

Going AG can be a bit of a jump but once you make it you will be glad you did!
 
A) 30 quarts, minimum and I would get one that is graduated. That's what the size of the pot I started with and I still use it. I just got it outfitted with a spigot...before that it was my go-to for BIAB all-grain. You can do an all-grain in a smaller pot, but you're not doing a full boil and won't have the potential to do true all-grain.

B) Sure. You'll have to use less grain to mash in a 2.5 gallon pot (I try to leave a gallon of empty space for stirring and bag space, etc.) You could always mash in your big pot and then do a "pour-over" sparge using the 2+ gallons of water you heated.

Just mash in your big pot, put the grains in a colander or strainer, pour over your sparge water, let the grains drip a bit and you're done with your mash.
:mug:

If you have multiple pots, you CAN split your boil between them:

hotbreak.jpg


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/whos-brewing-08-08-08-ris-post-your-notes-here-49497/index2.html#post497306
 

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