Stone 15th Anniversary Escondidian Imperial Black IPA clone

This is easily my favorite Black IPA, and due to availability now and in the future, I figured I should begin the journey to clone it. I put together a recipe and emailed it to Stone hoping for some critique, and to my pleasant surprise I got a reply from Mitch Steele with some recommendations . Based on his input, here is what I have:

Brew Type: All Grain
Style: Imperial IPA
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Volume: 8.00 gal
Boil Time: 90 min

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
15.80 lb 2 Row (2.0 SRM) Grain 79.0 %
1.60 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 8.0 %
0.80 lb Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 4.0 %
0.80 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 4.0 %
1.75 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00%] (90 min) Hops 69.0 IBU
2.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 32.4 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 4.2 IBU
2.00 oz pacific jade [9.00%] (1 min)
2.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.50%] (Dry Hop 7 days)
1.00 lb Candi Sugar, Dark (275.0 SRM) Sugar 5.0 %
2 Pkgs California Ale (DCL Yeast #S-05) [Starter 2500 ml] Yeast-Ale
-I may get some of the San Diego Super Strain for this

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.101 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.023 (hoping for 1.019 or so)
Estimated Color: 58.8 SRM
Bitterness: 102.4 IBU
Mash 150-151

I am planning to give this a go this weekend. Enjoy!

Subscribed!

Can't wait to hear how this turns out.

I might brew this today, which would mean dry yeast.... And I wonder if my brew shop has carafa III....

Did he mention they did a 60 minute boil, I would have figured a 90 minute, and a higher mash temp.... But im still new at deciphering recipes.

Subscribed!

He didn't say on the boil, doing 90 could help efficiency because you would apathetic more. I had 154 for a mash temp.

Would it be possible for you to perhaps post what recipe you sent Mich and what his reply was?

Sure thing. I will put it up later when I get back home.

Ya, I'd love to see the exact %s that mitch wrote. As far as yeast goes, WLP007 is claimed to be the strain that stone uses. It attenuates big beers very well, might be worth a look.

The only real changes to the grain bill he recommended was upping my carafa to 4%, and adding the dark candy syrup. Also to move the pacific jade to flameout and dryhop with NS

candy sugar in the boil I presume? Does it matter when?

Subscribed, this was a great beer and interested to see how your take turns out.

Ended up not brewing this today. My efficiency is so low that I would have to add extract to replace the grains I couldn't fit in the mash tun, and I would have had to use dry yeast, I'd rather wait for my mill and produce a starter of liquid yeast and do it right if I'm dropping this much on a recipe. Lol. Let me know how it turns out!

Ale Yeah!!!!!! I will be doin' this one. BTW, the word Ale at the beginning of this reply is actually two syllables.

phoenixs4r said:

candy sugar in the boil I presume? Does it matter when?

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I think candi usually goes in late into the boil, maybe last 10-15mins? It's just a sugar boost, so it doesn't really need to be in there the whole time, and it might be better to wait until your early hops have been utilized before gumming up the works with the dark sugar.

I am not a fan of black beers at all and I'm a big fan of this beer. The Citra & Nelson combo is so money. Use those two together in any other style of beer and people will love it. Tripel, pale, double ipa, quad, etc. They've all worked for me.

I had this beer last night and I find it hard to believe it's 100 ibu's,It certainly didnt taste like it.
I really enjoyed it and would love to brew a clone.

Great brew, subscribed!

Thanks for this post! This is by far my favorite beer right now!

I'm interested to see how this turns out!

To piggyback on the candi sugar question: will it affect the taste of the beer, or just bump up the fermentable sugars? I assume I've had beer brewed with candi sugar, but I'm not certain. A lot of New Belgium styles (1554, Snow Day) seem to have a sweet finish......could this be the culprit? I've heard most of the Beligian ales use it in the process.

guinnessface said:

To piggyback on the candi sugar question: will it affect the taste of the beer, or just bump up the fermentable sugars? I assume I've had beer brewed with candi sugar, but I'm not certain. A lot of New Belgium styles (1554, Snow Day) seem to have a sweet finish......could this be the culprit? I've heard most of the Beligian ales use it in the process.

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Candi will bump up the ABV, but will also add a slight bit of flavor, in proportion to how dark the candi is. Not really a lot of sweetness, as the sugar will be converted, but the "other" parts of the flavor, more caramel/molasses flavor. It will also thin out the beer a bit, but with all the other malt it's still going to be chewy.

Here's another thread with some discussion on candi sugar.

SilverZero said:

Candi will bump up the ABV, but will also add a slight bit of flavor, in proportion to how dark the candi is. Not really a lot of sweetness, as the sugar will be converted, but the "other" parts of the flavor, more caramel/molasses flavor. It will also thin out the beer a bit, but with all the other malt it's still going to be chewy.

Here's another thread with some discussion on candi sugar.

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Awesome, thanks.

guinnessface said:

To piggyback on the candi sugar question: will it affect the taste of the beer, or just bump up the fermentable sugars? I assume I've had beer brewed with candi sugar, but I'm not certain. A lot of New Belgium styles (1554, Snow Day) seem to have a sweet finish......could this be the culprit? I've heard most of the Beligian ales use it in the process.

Click to expand...

In the beers I've had with candi sugar (including Stone's 15th Anniversary Ale), it adds kind of a brown sugar/molasses flavor. Mostly, it just boosts fermentables.

Sounds like a good recipe, and it's cool that you got feedback from the brewery!

Ok, so I was lazy this weekend and had company, so didn't get this brewed, but will try to do it when I get home Thursday. I also forgot to put Mitch's notes up, but will try to do it when I get off of this airplane.

The LHBS I went to Friday didn't have carafe III, but did have black patent. Anyone think that would work alright if I just mashed it for the last 10 minutes or so? If not, I drive by several other shops on the way home from the airport and can grab the carafe III Thursday.

Black patent would add a significant flavor difference compared to carafa III - adding it late to the mash is more for avoiding the astringent flavors associated with highly roasted malts rather than the roastiness itself. Dingemanns makes a de-bittered black malt that is probably the closest thing to Carafa III. Also, Briess makes a malt (blackprinz perhaps?) that is along the same lines - color without much flavor.

Heading over to pick stuff up right now. Planning on brewing it, along with a BIPA on Wednesday.

Subscribed and awaiting a verdict...I need to sit this beer and an Arrogant Bastard down and have a hard talk about which is better...

I really would like to see what Mitch said - Personally, after looking at all of Stone's published recipes, 10% crystal seems waaaay too much. Being of such a high OG, there will already be lots of residual sweetness, even with higher attenuation, and IMHO, all that crystal will make this too cloying of a beer. For example, Stone's Old Guardian barleywine only has 4% crystal total and attenuates fairly dry with such a high OG (1.103 down to 1.016). Similarly, Stone's last Black IPA (Sublimely Self-Righteous) finishes around 1.016 as well.

Personally, I would shoot for less Crystal malt and a lower OG, more dryer and less like a barleywine.
I wanted to see his actual response b/c it seems his response differs from the ingredients listed on Stone's official blog: The Stone Blog » Stone 15th Anniversary Escondidian Imperial Black IPA

That's why I'm curious if there is actually any dark candi sugar in recipe, rather than a suggestion from him to make it more fermentable, given you have 10% crystal malts in your recipe.

Edit: Just found a posting by Mitch about 11-11-11 where the percentages of the beer are given; 4% CaraBohemian (only other Stone recipe I can find where this particular malt is used). http://blog.stonebrew.com/?m=201111

I must brew this beer. This is up there with my favorite of all time. Can't wait for the updates on this thread.

Looking back, I did have 8% crystal in the original email, must of messed up when putting the candy sugar in or something. I updated the original post with that. Here is the email string:

From: Mitch Steele
To: Daniel Reed; skeezerpleezer
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:35:26 -0800
Subject: RE: Stone 15th Anniversary Escondidian Imperial Black IPA

Hi Heath:

Try bumping the carafe III and the chocolate malt to 4% each. We also used a little dark candi sugar syrup in the boil.

Also, flip-flop the additions of Nelson and Pacific Jade-move the Nelson to the dry-hop and take the Pacific Jade to flameout. We made that change after the 1st batch.

Have fun brewing!

Cheers,
Mitch


Mitch Steele
Brewmaster
Stone Brewing Co.

From: Daniel Reed
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:24 PM
To: Mitch Steele
Subject: FW: Stone 15th Anniversary Escondidian Imperial Black IPA

…last one. Promise. I think.

Dan Reed
Brewery Tours & Promotions

Stone Brewing Company
1999 Citracado Pkwy.
Escondido, CA 9202
(760) 471-4999

“Good people drink good beer.” – Hunter S. Thompson

*
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 6:14 PM
To: email
Subject: Stone 15th Anniversary Escondidian Imperial Black IPA

*
NOTE: I cut out a lot of the extra stuff I put in to shorten this post. He is the important stuff:

I was wondering if Stone would be willing to give some hints or advice on the ingredients for this.**Below is what my initial thoughts were based on the blog entry found here: The Stone Blog » Stone 15th Anniversary Escondidian Imperial Black IPA.

85% 2row
8% Cara-bohemian (sub crystal 80 if I cant find it)
3.5% Carafa III
3.5% Chocolate

Columbus at start of boil to get to around 80 ibus
Citra at 15 min left to get 20-25 ibus
2.5-3 oz Citra at flameout
2.5 oz Pacific jade dry hop
2.5 oz Nelson sauvin dry hop

Wyeast San Diego super strain, or 1056/001 fermented at 65-68
Mash around 154, try to get a final gravity around 1.025

The biggest concern is getting that wonderful roastiness that 15th has.**I am new to the black IPA brewing, so wasn't sure about my specialty grains.**Any help/comments would be greatly appreciated!**

Cheers,
Heath

I cultured some yeast from a 22oz bottle of stone IPA. It is very healthy, ferments the starters well and with good flavor, and has multiplied into great quantities. I have a batch of Stone IPA fermenting with this yeast, and was wondering if anyone here had thoughts on whether the same cultured yeast would work on a batch of this 15th Anniversary Imperial black IPA?

I imagine it would work fine.

Isn't this recipe resulting in a bit higher that the commercial ABV?

mcaple1 said:

Isn't this recipe resulting in a bit higher that the commercial ABV?

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The commercial beer is 10.8% (just checked a bottle I have in the fridge). I am hoping this drops to around 1.019 from 1.101, which would be right around 10.8%.

Actually, I just got my hands on a bottle of the 15th Anniversary stuff and it looks like its bottle conditioned. i am going to see if I can culture that yeast.

I adapted the recipe in post #1 from AG to extract by subbing 13 lbs light LME for the 2 row. All looks good except .... I only get to 52.3 IBUs of bitterness per Beersmith which is way off. Any thoughts?

Are you doing a full boil? If not you wont get the same bitterness with the amount of hops.

The recipe on page one has been changed to reflect the suggested changes in the email, correct? Has anyone brewed this one yet? My wife really loves black IPAs, and I'm thinking about making this one my first attempt at brewing one.

dignifiedb said:

The recipe on page one has been changed to reflect the suggested changes in the email, correct? Has anyone brewed this one yet? My wife really loves black IPAs, and I'm thinking about making this one my first attempt at brewing one.

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Man, talk about going big or going home.

The recipe was posted following the conversation with Steele, so it should be good to go. If anybody has brewed this yet, it's still on primary or maybe bottles, so unless somebody got on it early and kegged, nobody is done yet. I could be wrong, but I'm sure someone would come back to comment if they'd tasted the finished product yet.