How few grains with 5 Gallon cooler MLT?

My plan was to convert a 3 gallon cooler to a MLT, but I think I may just go ahead and get a 5 gallon one. I dont have much experience with all-grain, so I will be easing into it.

Anyone know what the minimum amount of grains i would be ok with when using the 5 gallon. My problem is I cant do full boils yet, right now I am boiling 3.5 gallons.

Any thoughts, suggestions?

cpbergie said:

My plan was to convert a 3 gallon cooler to a MLT, but I think I may just go ahead and get a 5 gallon one. I dont have much experience with all-grain, so I will be easing into it.

Anyone know what the minimum amount of grains i would be ok with when using the 5 gallon. My problem is I cant do full boils yet, right now I am boiling 3.5 gallons.

Any thoughts, suggestions?

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That is a good question that I don't think gets asked much.
I would say that the depth of the grain bed would be the biggest concern. I'm purely guessing here but I would say that it should be no less than 6 inches or so. I'm not sure the wort would clarify if it were much less than that.
Also, I might have some concerns with the tun holding temperature with a smaller mash. The more volume the slower the temp change.

Buy a bigger kettle or turkey fryer set up first! Then you can do full boils with either extract, PM, or AG.

To answer your question, you could mash very small beers (or even partial mash) in a 5 gallon cooler, expecially if you're batch sparging.

RichBrewer said:

That is a good question that I don't think gets asked much.
I would say that the depth of the grain bed would be the biggest concern. I'm purely guessing here but I would say that it should be no less than 6 inches or so. I'm not sure the wort would clarify if it were much less than that.
Also, I might have some concerns with the tun holding temperature with a smaller mash. The more volume the slower the temp change.

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If he's batch sparging with a SS braid, I bet he can get by with less than six inches of grain. The braid works really well in filtering out the particulate matter.

As to issue of the tun holding heat - make sure to preheat it with some very hot water ahead of time. If you're doing partial mashes, temperature control isn't QUITE as huge an issue than if you're doing AG (since most of the fermentables are coming from extract). If it's an issue, aim a little higher than you would otherwise and coast in to the finish.

EDIT: If you can only boil 3.5 gallons, I'd plan on doing partial mashes for the time being. You'll get much of the benefit of AG in terms of better control over ingredients, use of specialty malts, and hopefully a bit better flavor, but you won't have to worry about using huge amounts of pale malt to collect your fermentables. I'm usually collecting 6.5 or 7.0 gallons of wort for a 5-gallon batch.

So is there really no happy medium between all grain and partial mash? I was kind of thinking about doing 6 lbs of grains, and say 5-6 lbs of extract, so i think i would need at least half the fermentables to come from the mash.

I agree that i need a bigger kettle, but a found a great deal on a 5 gallon cooler, but dont want to just let it sit there.

Sure, you can decide how much comes from the mash and how much from extract. No problems there.

cpbergie said:

So is there really no happy medium between all grain and partial mash? I was kind of thinking about doing 6 lbs of grains, and say 5-6 lbs of extract, so i think i would need at least half the fermentables to come from the mash.

I agree that i need a bigger kettle, but a found a great deal on a 5 gallon cooler, but dont want to just let it sit there.

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Partial mash IS the happy medium

My first mashes were all partial, although I was boiling more wort than you are. I'd use about eight pounds of grain, collect about four, four and half gallons of wort, and supplement with a few pounds of DME. Your plan sounds about right, although the fermentables you get from the grain will probably be closer to a third of the total, not half.

If you're easing into all-grain via the partial mash route, then I'd suggest the five-gallon cooler/MLT. It should still give you ample grain-bed depth, and five-gallon rubbermaid coolers are *very* reasonable (I got one at Wal-Mart for $12; I'm sure someone has found one at Lowes for 6¢). The hardware to convert the cooler will cost the same, regardless of size.

In terms of potential for upgrading...a five-gallon cooler will still serve well you for a nice partial mash, but if you ever do move to full-boil capability and want to do a full mash, you could still use the five-gallon MLT for many all-grain beers. If you later decide to upgrade your MLT to a ten-gallon coooler, then your five-gallon one will still serve nicely as a hot liquor tun. Nothing wasted.

I've been brewing all-grain with a friend for years and not long ago built my own AG homebrewery. The difference in what you can make and what you can taste over "syrup beer" is amazing, and the equipment will actually pay for itself pretty quickly. You may not want to "ease into it" after a couple good PM batches

Thanks for the advice. I will go with the 5 gallon cooler.

I just did a small PM in a 5 gal. cooler. I only had 3 lbs. of grain, but it seemed to work fine. I am using stainless braid and batch sparging. I got about 70% efficiency which I am pretty happy about.

Next I will try my hand at an AG batch.

faber said:

In terms of potential for upgrading...a five-gallon cooler will still serve well you for a nice partial mash, but if you ever do move to full-boil capability and want to do a full mash, you could still use the five-gallon MLT for many all-grain beers.

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Like the original poster, I have a 5 gallon converted cooler with a SS braid that I have been using for partial mashes, but, lately, I have been wondering which AG beers will fit in my cooler. Would I be able to brew something like a Nut Brown Ale or would I need to brew something lighter?

Thanks,

tired

tired said:

Like the original poster, I have a 5 gallon converted cooler with a SS braid that I have been using for partial mashes, but, lately, I have been wondering which AG beers will fit in my cooler. Would I be able to brew something like a Nut Brown Ale or would I need to brew something lighter?

Thanks,

tired

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That depends on a few things: a) the specific recipe/grain bill; b) the water/grain ratio; c) preferred sparge method; and d) dead space(s) in your set up (assuming you want to finish with five gallons).

A northernEnglish-style brown ale might be pushing it, but I'm sure it can be done. Scottish ales, porters, stouts, etc., would be too big, as would most Belgians.

But you could handily make many pale ale recipes, IPAs, ambers, lighter lagers, etc. etc.

Still plenty of beer to make in a five-gallon MLT.

But if you're just getting into AG brewing, and you know you will want to brew big (higher gravity beers with bigger grain bills), the extra cost up-front for a ten-galllon cooler will be well worth it. Folks here adivsed me as such--no regrets.

cpbergie said:

So is there really no happy medium between all grain and partial mash? I was kind of thinking about doing 6 lbs of grains, and say 5-6 lbs of extract, so i think i would need at least half the fermentables to come from the mash.

I agree that i need a bigger kettle, but a found a great deal on a 5 gallon cooler, but dont want to just let it sit there.

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sure there is,, when I have most everything full and only have a few bottles I just do a half batch.
which is almost easier because i can do that right on the stove instead of pulling everything out.

faber said:

That depends on a few things: a) the specific recipe/grain bill; b) the water/grain ratio; c) preferred sparge method; and d) dead space(s) in your set up (assuming you want to finish with five gallons).
A northernEnglish-style brown ale might be pushing it, but I'm sure it can be done. Scottish ales, porters, stouts, etc., would be too big, as would most Belgians.
But you could handily make many pale ale recipes, IPAs, ambers, lighter lagers, etc. etc.
Still plenty of beer to make in a five-gallon MLT.

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Newbie question here, but when doing bigger beers with a small MT couldn't you just do all the specialty grains and as much base grain as you can in the MT then add malt extract to bring your wort to the desired gravity? I would imagine doing 5gal batches in a 5gal MT you could get well over half your fermentables from the grain and only need to add a little extra extract. This would also allow you to adjust for differences in mash efficiency.
The only real advantage I see for going to a larger MT and brewing all grain is to say you made it using "all-grain".
Tell me what I am missing.
Craig

CBBaron said:

Newbie question here, but when doing bigger beers with a small MT couldn't you just do all the specialty grains and as much base grain as you can in the MT then add malt extract to bring your wort to the desired gravity? I would imagine doing 5gal batches in a 5gal MT you could get well over half your fermentables from the grain and only need to add a little extra extract. This would also allow you to adjust for differences in mash efficiency.
The only real advantage I see for going to a larger MT and brewing all grain is to say you made it using "all-grain".
Tell me what I am missing.
Craig

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Good question. What you're describing is "partial mash brewing," i.e. that you mash some of it and use (usually dried) malt extract to fill out your fermentables. I have a friend who only makes PM beers, and they're pretty darn good. Be mindful of the ratio between specialty grains and base malts. Some specialty grains need base malt to convert in the mash. The idea of PM brewing is to make a mini mash, not just a longer steeping of specialty grains.

All-grain brewing is just another step in the process. Like anything in brewing, it can get as complex as you like, but the advantage is that with that complexity is control. When you brew all-grain, you control the whole process: the complete grain bill, exactly how you mash (a lot of variables in mashing allow the brewer to tweak a recipe just so), etc. The advantage, if there is one, is not one of speed or convenience.

There is a cost advantage, however. Once your equipment is paid for (and it only takes a few batches to pay for itself, relative to the cost of retail microbrew), then AG recpies are a lot less expensive when compared to an extract version of the same beer.

The true advantage is that you also have more flexibility with the full grain bill of an AG recipe. If you go AG, the only limit in your brewing is your batch size. I got into AG because I wanted to brew porters and Belgian dubbels, but I was real surprised with the difference in my pale ales and my ESB. *So* much better than what I did before.

But with a five-gallon MLT, you could brew a lot of really good AG beers. You should be able to do all but the *really* high-gravity beers.

I'm not able to sleep tonight so I am looking at John Palmer's on line book on brewing http://www.howtobrew.com/. I came across this paragraph on grain bed depth:

Chapter 17 - Getting the Wort Out (Lautering)
17.2 Getting the Most From the Grainbed
The grainbed can be a few inches to a couple feet deep, but the optimum depth depends on the overall tun geometry as well as the total amount of grain being mashed. A good rule of thumb is: "The depth of the grainbed should be no less than one half the shortest dimension of the floor area, nor greater than twice the longest." In other words, the grainbed aspect ratio can vary between 1:2 and 2:1. If the grainbed gets too shallow, i.e., from lautering too little grain in too large a tun, then an adequate filter bed won't form, the wort will not clear, and you will probably get hazy beer. A minimum useful depth is probably about 4 inches but a depth of between 8-18 inches is preferable. In general, deeper is better, but if it is too deep, then the grainbed is more easily compacted and may not let any wort through, making lautering nearly impossible

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It sounds like the biggest issue with grain bed depth is wort clarity.
EDIT: I think this is the reason that a 2 or 3 gallon mini mash/lauter tun would be much better for partial mash brewing. You will have a deeper grain bed compared to the same mash in a 5 gallon cooler.

A minimum useful depth is probably about 4 inches but a depth of between 8-18 inches is preferable.

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Dammit! I'm always hitting the minimum!

I built a 5 gal mash tun, and it has worked fine for 2 brews, batch sparging, both ~ 12 lbs of grain, but that came close to maxing out my system. Anyhow, I want to do a Stone IPA clone but I figure that could run 15+ lbs of grain. Does anyone have any great suggestions that don't involve modifying another cooler? I'm thinking about filling my mash tun to the brim, and after mashing for an hour drawing off a gallon or so of the first run, topping it up again at the same temp, and letting it go another 15-20 min before sparging / mashout.

Any thoughts?

yeah, your efficieny will suffer badly. The more sugar in the water in your mash, the more tun geometry and manifold design comes in to play. Batch sparging might work if you fill your MLT to the brim, but you will want to play with that before trying it on a huge beer like a stone IPA.