Irish Stout Guinness Draught Clone

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I sour for 4 days and then add to my weekend batch. I boil before I add... No, you can't add it at bottling time...

The recipe has you doing this well beforehand and freezing but I'm not that organized and my freezer is full of hops..

Now, this isn't tested by me, but I have been told by my local HBS that a pinch of grain in the guiness will sour it faster. Again, untested by me...
 
I sour for 4 days and then add to my weekend batch. I boil before I add... No, you can't add it at bottling time...

The recipe has you doing this well beforehand and freezing but I'm not that organized and my freezer is full of hops..

Now, this isn't tested by me, but I have been told by my local HBS that a pinch of grain in the guiness will sour it faster. Again, untested by me...

I threw a drop of sourdough starter into some unfermented wort, took off like a rocket, added a nice twang.
 
OK, here's a dumb question. I started looking at some SRM cards, and..is 24SRM dark enough? I know guinness isn't pitch black, but man that 24 srm card looks pretty light brown
 
It pours pretty dark, I'd give a better description but all I am pouring now are black n tans, so the color gets skewed. Drinking it now (again black n tan with my pale ale), it is outstanding. I overshot my gravity by a lot and you can tell, 2 of these and I am plenty buzzed. Will definately make this one again. It is good stuff. Hey Netflyer how do you like the bottington clone of Orfy's?
 
Gave this recipe a shot yesterday. My first all-grain. I am interested to see how it turns out. Hit 1.060 but I am a little worried about some oxidation as the 2.0oz of EKG kept stopping up the spigot on my brew kettle, nearly stopping the flow. Ended up having to pour about 3 of the 5 gallons directly into the 6 gallon better bottle through a funnel. Quite a bit of the hops ended up in the primary. Pitched Notty so time will tell. Should I be worried?
 
Gave this recipe a shot yesterday. My first all-grain. I am interested to see how it turns out. Hit 1.060 but I am a little worried about some oxidation as the 2.0oz of EKG kept stopping up the spigot on my brew kettle, nearly stopping the flow. Ended up having to pour about 3 of the 5 gallons directly into the 6 gallon better bottle through a funnel. Quite a bit of the hops ended up in the primary. Pitched Notty so time will tell. Should I be worried?

Oxygen prior to primary fermentation is your friend. It's once you've fermented that it can be a bad thing. So in regards to having introduced a lot of O2 while transferring your beer to the primary fermenter, no worries. And hops in the primary is no big deal. Sometimes I use a strainer or cheese cloth (sanitized) when transferring my beer from kettle to primary. Just get your fermenter to wherever you will rack it to secondary or bottle a few hours prior to let everything settle. Then be careful when racking to get as little of the hops as possible.
 
Oxygen prior to primary fermentation is your friend. It's once you've fermented that it can be a bad thing. So in regards to having introduced a lot of O2 while transferring your beer to the primary fermenter, no worries. And hops in the primary is no big deal. Sometimes I use a strainer or cheese cloth (sanitized) when transferring my beer from kettle to primary. Just get your fermenter to wherever you will rack it to secondary or bottle a few hours prior to let everything settle. Then be careful when racking to get as little of the hops as possible.

Thanks! Patiently waiting for the Notty to start its work. Been about 6 hours. Pitched at 64F and air temp in the basement where the primary is, is 62F.
 
So Netflyer, in the end how did your recipe and process differ from the OP's recipe and process? Sounds like you got it pretty close.
 
So Netflyer, in the end how did your recipe and process differ from the OP's recipe and process? Sounds like you got it pretty close.

I only varied in that I got a bit better eff. and I left it just that slightly higher OG, I used Wyeast Irish Ale Yeast. I used almost his exact process except I did not freeze the soured guiness. I soured up till brew day and boiled it separately and then added it to the boil.

I was reading recently that the roasted barley which is unmalted needs the protein rest at 120F and that it should be crushed up really fine in a coffee grinder or with a rolling pin after you crush it normally. (From Palmer/Zainasheff - Brewing Classic Styles)... accordingly this is the way you get not JUST the coffee taste but also the bittersweet chocolate taste.

:mug:
 
I let 2 bottles of Guinness Draught sour in a quart sized mason jar covered loosely with saran wrap and the metal canning band - I perforated the plastic wrap so it could breathe and added a few grains of malted barley. I let sour for too long I fear (probably 10-14 days) and there is a thin layer of scum on top.

Think I'm going to skip the sour beer addition and just keg and enjoy - since my recipe was a little different that the one posted here so when its ready, I'll let you know how mine turned out.

TD
 
I have to admit that the most recent batch I made suffered from too much HB during the batch and my brewing guests and I completely forgot the souring addition. The brew still came out great, even to the point where I'm wondering if the sour step is even THAT necessary :)
 
I used this recipe as my third All Grain batch. My first two batches suffered from really low efficiency and I think I may have overcompensated this time. I ended up with 1.060 as my OG. Everything else went fine until it hit 1.020. I have tried shaking it, moving it to warmer temp room(70-73F), racking it, letting it sit another week and nothing. It tastse great and has not changed gravity readings for almost a week and half so I am going to go ahead and bottle it, but purely for future knowledge sake...

I am wondering if my yeast crapped out on me or if it finished and there is just alot of leftover unfermentables due to the high mash temps?

By the way... I used Wyeast American Ale II because its what I had harvested from a previous batch. I know it won't be a Guiness but I think it will still be a great stout!
 
Yeast usually doesn't crap out unless some consumables are lacking. Oxygenating your wort before fermentation should help in the future. Although that is a high gravity.
 
Interestingly enough my first batch of this (I'm on my fifth) finished pretty high at 1.018 and I used the Wyeast Irish Ale Yeast. Again, interestingly enough I've made subsequent batches with the same yeast and finished much lower like 1.012 ... My first batch with the high finish was still amazing and I wouldn't worry if I were you. Also, it should be noted that the amount of grist in this recipe could easily get you 1.055+ if your eff is up there. I believe the spirit of this particular clone is to get you around 1.052.
 
I am not really worried about this one turning out badly... I tasted it again at bottling and I think this one is going to be awesome! I was mostly wondering if anyone else had issues with this one finishing at a higher gravity than expected.

At this point I am assuming it must have been a few different things related to the yeast... it was repitched yeast and I didn't make a large enough starter since I wasn't shooting for a 1.060 O.G.

As I said I am kind of new to All Grain and so I was wondering if the high mash and sparge temps were related to my high final gravity... don't higher temps produce a more unfermentable wort? Obviously everyone else seemed to be finishing fine so I must be wrong about this. :cross:

Regardless, I can. not. wait for this one to be done.
 
I just made this last night, it was my first all grain! I hit a brewhouse efficiency of 77.94% and a OG of 1.054. Not bad for my first time :) I made a executive decision on the yeast and went with Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale. I will keep everyone updated!

Ended up coming out to 6 gallons of wort after 90 min boil.

Note: Use a yeast starter for this yeast, it lagged for 12 hours... even though I used a nice amount of nutrients and energizer with a nice aerate.

Day 4: Gravity reading of 1.015 so far...
beer.jpg
 
this is off topic, but what do you think if the roasted barley was subbed with chocolate malt?
 
Funny you say that.... I use really low and long mash temps to thin and lighten the brew, coupled with de-bittered chocolate, and carafa to get the color and chocolate flavor just right. This brings the flavor much more close to Guiness in my opinion... I also push with nitro and co2 in a beer gas configeration of 75%, 25% respectively at 20-30psi. I can tell you the nitro does add an eliment of smoothness to the brew. Aging the beer about 30 days at room temp with an inital plug of 30 psi with a carbonation stone puts the flavor and cascade just where I like it.
 
I don't see why you would stray away form the recipe and add chocolate... Especially when people have already said it's spot on... If you want a chocolate stout, then make one... but this is more of a Guiness clone.

I made this last week, and I just tasted it from the primary. I followed the recipe to a tee, except I went with the irish ale yeast. And I must admit, It taste like guiness, has the sweentess and everything! It has some off flavor notes, but thats only because it's so new and still in the primary.
 
I started with the recipie and my taste buds told me there was to much roasted or burnt flavor when comparing this to "Guiness Draught". It was more almost a "Guiness extra-Stout" but not quite. After doing extensive all be it online research on any and all articles and including their website. I brewed and brewed. Eventually, I took the roasted out of the recipie all together, and experimented to where I am today even adding nitro and a stout tap. I still don't have it nailed but I think it is a better version than the original recipie only without the sour as of yet. The only problem is it takes all day. I have been updating my RIMS as well. I finally have what I think will help (rice hulls) but I haven't ever used them... I'm not sure of the ratio.

Everyone's taste is different and taking input from others and working on your favorite beer is to me what I love, and in turn is what this is all about.

Cheers:mug:
 
I have to agree with Kitemanks and correct myself a bit too... I believe this is spot on guiness recipe but a spot on Extra Stout recipe... not Draught... Now that said.. their is draught in bottles, and draught on draught. My bottles with the little nitro ball are MUCH more watery than the draught I get off a real guiness tapped at the local pub. So this is a hard thing to compare really. But this recipe if you bottle prime and don't go w/ the nitro and if you're like me and you overshoot your gravity, it is much more like the exported extra stout than the thinnner draught (IMHO).

Now, as for chocolate... I have proven to myself that you can brew a stout with only malted, flaked and roasted barley and get not just the awesome coffee note but also chocolate notes... the secret is to grind the roasted barley section of the grist in a coffee grinder! To an almost flour like consistency... Then do a 15 rest at 120F, then mash thin at 153F for 60 min. Man, you get Mocha stout this way :) No chocolate malt needed.

:mug:
 
Interesting.... I have a friend who loves coffee flavor in his beer. I'll have to vault that info for later use.

It's interesting how different processes can be done to arrive at an extremely similar flavor with slightly different suttle notes and complex flavors that each brewer can call their own. I dig it man.:tank:
 
Just wanted to chime in here...This is great that I have found this posting, and I will be trying this recipe very soon and will take everyone’s tips and tricks into account. My father and father-in-law both love this brew so if I could give then something very similar I would be in their good books for a LONG time! Thanks Riclark for staring this post and giving us this recipe!
 
Funny you say that.... I use really low and long mash temps to thin and lighten the brew, coupled with de-bittered chocolate, and carafa to get the color and chocolate flavor just right. This brings the flavor much more close to Guiness in my opinion... I also push with nitro and co2 in a beer gas configeration of 75%, 25% respectively at 20-30psi. I can tell you the nitro does add an eliment of smoothness to the brew. Aging the beer about 30 days at room temp with an inital plug of 30 psi with a carbonation stone puts the flavor and cascade just where I like it.

recipe?
 
EMF Guiness 1B
Brew Type: All Grain
Sfyle: Dry Stout
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Volume: 8.08 gal
Brewhouse Efriciencv : 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 min
9.59 filtered tap water Wichita,KS (very hard)

0.50 lb Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM)
7.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
2.50 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM
0.25 lb Carafa Il(412.0 SRM)
0.25 lb De-Bittered ChocolateM alt (450.0 Grain)

2.00 oz East Kent Goldlings
1 pkg Irish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1084)

Mix all of the Grain ingredients prior to mashing to get the rice hulls evenly distributed for easy circulation or lauter.


13.13 qt strike water @ 144F if equipment isn't heated try 150F-155F (RIMS use 4 gallons to aid in circulation and grain bed float.)

Protien Rest: 135F for 75 minutes
Saccharification: 152F for 45 minutes

Check for conversion using Iodine if using RIMS

Batch Sparge: 170F for 30 minutes (at least)

Boil for 60-90 minutes until target volume is achieved. After cooling wort and transferring to fermenter take O.G. reading, dilute if nessisary to get as close to 1.040 as possible. To high of an O.G. reading will increase the alcohol flavor and heaviness of the beer.

Primary 1 week @ 68-70 secondary the same for a week. Use gyle,sugar,malt or force carb. to carbonate. I use 75% nitro and 25% CO2 which smooths the flavor out quite a bit. If the beer is to sharp with just CO2 let it age. You can change any harshness by lightening chocolate malt, and increasing the Carafa even not milling a small percentage. Increasing coffee flavor substitute Roasted Barley for the debittered chocolate malt. This brew will not be sour. If sourness is desired use Rick Clark's method. The color will appear a little light. Guiness is dark and produces a redish hue when held up to a light which is achieved here. Color tinkering should be done by carafa if the brew is smooth enough for you, or roasted if a more coffee flavor is desired. Milling roasted will intensify the coffee taste and aroma.

Bluh
Eric M. Fresh
 
I brewed 10 gallons of this with a buddy on Sunday. Hit 1.058 and added 48oz of Guinness soured for four days to the boil. Wyeast Irish Ale was raging in less than 8 hours. I'm really excited about this one. Only my second all grain and it maxed out my 10 gallon mash tun, but our efficiency was great. Will post results in a month or so.
 
I brewed this in July of this year and it is phenomenal! I did everything Rickclark did except I used Wyeast Irish Ale. It is spot on in the tastse, but the only difference is the mouthfeel. I'm using CO2 and do believe that using beer gas and the proper tap would correct this.
 
I was reading recently that the roasted barley which is unmalted needs the protein rest at 120F and that it should be crushed up really fine in a coffee grinder or with a rolling pin after you crush it normally. (From Palmer/Zainasheff - Brewing Classic Styles)... accordingly this is the way you get not JUST the coffee taste but also the bittersweet chocolate taste.

:mug:

I made two versions of this recipe, one I used some old roasted barley from a prior Scotch Ale brew, and this was crushed. The second batch I used uncrushed roasted barley and this batch didn't compare to the frist batch. The beer wasn't as dark (light brown) and the flavor wasn't as nice as the frist batch. I second the crushing of the roasted barley!
 
Quick question on souring the guinness. Because you do this will you need to dedicate a keg and beer lines to a "Sour" beer or will it not matter because it is boiled before added? I'm gonna do this recipe next for my first all grain.
 
Quick question on souring the guinness. Because you do this will you need to dedicate a keg and beer lines to a "Sour" beer or will it not matter because it is boiled before added? I'm gonna do this recipe next for my first all grain.

The boiling pasteurizes it. No need to use different equipment.
 
It seems my gravity is going to finish high at 1.022. I'm going to check again tonight to see if it has moved in the last week, but my buddy that fermented the other half said his is at 1.022 as well.

Anybody else have this brew finish high? I'm thinking our mash temp must have been high. The sample tasted fantastic. Great, full mouthfeel and the sour Guinness character was there. I can live with the sweeter brew and it still leaves us at 5% after priming.
 
Getting ready to keg this within the next 2 days (Time permitting) I just got my beer gas and stout faucet all set up to. I will post when I try my first pint!
 
Norcal,

What was your starting gravity?? That does seem quite high for an ending gravity. In the future if this happens you might try adding some Amylase enzyme. It will break down in additional starches you missed and get you back on track. Additionally start doing an Iodine test to help with total conversion. I'm sure you're probably doing this but if not and others are having this problem this is a quick and easy fix. Respond to this is you need more info.

I find this enzyme locally, funny that Northern brewer doesn't carry it if you need a link:http://www.beer-wine.com/products/amylase-enzyme-15-ounce

This really helps with clearing my pale lagers, and ales. I have really hard water.
 
Does this look close enough for an extract conversion? Still going to do the sour addition.


[size=-1]BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com[/size]
[size=+2]Recipe: Guniess Extra[/size]
Style: Dry Stout (Irish)
TYPE: Extract
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications

Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 6.85 gal
Estimated OG: 1.058 SG
Estimated Color: 24.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 38.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: - %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
Code:
Amount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU      
8.40 lb       Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM)             Extract      68.52 %       
3.00 lb       Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM)                  Grain        24.49 %       
0.86 lb       Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM)                Grain        6.98 %        
2.00 oz       Goldings, East Kent [6.20 %]  (60 min)    Hops         38.5 IBU      
2 Pkgs        Nottingham Yeast (Lallemand #-)           Yeast-Ale

Mash Schedule: None
Total Grain Weight: 12.46 lb
Code:
Steep grains as desired (30 minutes)
Notes:
 
That looks close to me drumming. You can see that beersmith has your OG higher and your IBU's lower. I think the reason for this difference is that the OP expects 68% efficiency from his AG process. Since you are using extract for most of your fermentables it predicts you to have a higher OG, and since your OG is higher your IBU's go down (this is cause hop utilization is a function of gravity).

Now, if you brew your recipe as is I think it will taste great. And be very close to the original, but here are some considerations to think about. Firstly since the OP's recipe is all grain, the ratio of the contribution of each grain will remain constant despite if he hits his efficiency estimate. That means the beer will remain balanced the way the recipe describes: 66.66% pale malt, 25% flaked barely, 8ish roasted barley. However in your recipe you can expect that the extract will get near 100% efficiency while your steeping of the grains will get a significantly lower amount of efficiency. Therefore the fermentables that end up in the brewpot may be something like 80% pale malt xtract, 18% flaked barley, and 2% roasted barley. I think if you did a side by side taste test the most dramatic difference would be caused by this rather than any difference between the extract and the grain.

This is primarily speculation, I've only anecdotal evidence to support it. I usually increase the steeping grain weight when converting to account for this. Makes sense in my head, but that doesn't mean it is is right, lol. You should report back what you think of the beer when its done though.
 

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