Bells Oberon Clone

Thanks for the detailed write-up. I will be practicing my decoction skills in the near future with this recipe.

Awesome.

First of all, I had no idea brewsmith was such good software, your brew notes make met wet.
Second, I was worried about the abby ale II and curious about the 1272. I am glad it worked out okay for you. I think the yeast from the bottle really sets this one down.
Questions: Do you think that the decoction 1.) contributes to the correct maltyness for oberon? 2.) maybe contributes to the (albeit slightly) darker 1srm or so in color? Or (since we are going for perfection here in a clone) do you think that there maybe something in your equipment that may change this?

Also, your ferment temps - I ferment at (primary and secondary) at 65F. Do you think that your higher temps might add the ghost "astringency?" I may not have nearly as sensitive taste buds so discerning the difference between the real oberon and this recipe may not be possible for me.

In a double-blind taste test, I was able to only tell which beer was "fresher" tasting, I was not able to tell which one was oberon, so I correctly guessed that mine was the fresher of the two. My BF and his miller-light drinking buddy were unable to tell the difference at all.

As a side note, a BJCP judge gave me 41.25 points for this clone, so you seem to be a good critic - or at least as accurate as a bjcp judge.

Two last questions, and this is along the lines of the first ones, but just for personal notes:

Do you think that the decoction changed this beer flavor profile closer to oberon than without a decoc?

Do you think that decoction is worth it, in general, as far as taste and complexity are concerned (vs. cleaning and mash moving)?

Well my notes are not all from BrewSmith I use Kaiser's brewlog which can be found at braukaiser.com and the efficiency analysis is also from Kaiser. The first two sheets are what Brewsmith gives me and I use them as guides for my brewday and use the brewlog to record what actually happens. I am still getting better at note taking and finding it is making me a much better brewer.

I would say the 1272 was a good option but would not recommend the 1762 Abbey II.

The balance of sweet maltiness and hops was very good. I have not done a non-deco brew of this to compare, but I can tell you the flavor profile was very similar. Some slight darkening will occur with a deco and I had my deco in the pot for a long time so I could have seen more darkening than your regular single decoction. I doubt my equipment contributed to any darkening, I have a very high quality triple ply stockpot I use as my deco kettle and heat very slowly to avoid such problems. I think I simple got more color from a longer decoction.

I can definitely say that temperature is not the source of my astringency. I have sensed it over three batches now two of which were fermented in my fermentation chamber and fermented at the low end of the yeasts range. I need to find my problem but I have ruled that out. I am going to replace all plastic and clean my brewery down with bleach, I think that will do it.

I fancy myself a good judge of beer albeit a bit lenient at times. I think that score is very accurate, this is truly a good recipe.

I do think the deco lends a nice maltiness to this beer that would not be present otherwise. I did an enhanced single decoction because I am wary of leaving the mash in the protein range for more than 15 minutes, and my schedule allowed my to do a nice deco pull and jump out of the protein rest range quickly.

I think decoctions are worth it. The intangibles in a beer can only be brought out by subtle improvements in one's process and I feel decoctions are one of the things that can make the difference. Without a side-by-side it is impossible to tell, but I think the deco works very well here.

As a vote of confidence for this recipe, I will be taking this to a six pack stimulus party I am attending soon. I don't normally subject the public to my beer as it is not normally very good. I feel comfortable putting this beer in a group with top tier professional beers.

^ Congrats on your success.I'll be trying this one at some point for sure. And thanks for the link.That is a valuable tool for continuing success.

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

As a vote of confidence for this recipe, I will be taking this to a six pack stimulus party I am attending soon. I don't normally subject the public to my beer as it is not normally very good. I feel comfortable putting this beer in a group with top tier professional beers.

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One small step for homebrew, one slightly bigger step for this beer recipe.

They loved it. It was a big hit at the party and it has been demanded as the featured beer for next years party. Pretty cool.

The guy who throws the party is a senior partner at the law firm I work at so it is cool to get some street cred in the office.

phew. I was worried that you may have been biased. not that worried. okay... I wonder what recipe I should perfect next.

I am thinking fat tire. but there are some pretty good ones already out there.

wait that sounded pretentious. and stupid.

What I meant to say was, I love obsessing over the flavors of beers. I would like suggestions of what beer I can obsess over next.

BrewSpook said:

Crypto -

Hope you don't mind, I converted this to an extract so my FIL could take a crack at it. Here is what I came up with using stats for Briess DME.

% LB OZ Malt or Fermentable ppg °L
55% 3 14 Light Dry Malt Extract info 42 4
38% 2 10 Dry Wheat Extract info 42 3
7% 0 8 Dextrin (CaraPils) Malt info 33 2

Boil 45 mins 1.0 Saaz pellet 5.5
Boil 15 mins 1.0 Saaz pellet 5.5
Dry hop 14 days 1.0 Cascade leaf 5.5
Dry hop 14 days 0.5 Saaz leaf 3.5

Wyeast American Wheat (1010)
(will use harvested yeast from Oberon bottles)

Original Gravity
1.057
(1.051 to 1.059)
Final Gravity
1.014
(1.012 to 1.015)
Color
4° SRM
(Yellow)
12.8 HBU
18.9 IBU

5.7% A.B.V
186 per 12 oz

All calculations done on Hopville.com recipe generator

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Thanks for the extract recipe, however when I plug it into beersmith, it comes up with TOTALLY different end results than what the hopville calculator came up with in the above post.

Beersmith gives:
OG: 1.067
FG: 1.015
Estimated Color: 9.6
IBUs: 35.3
ABV: 6.8%

Any thoughts? I tried plugging Boerderij_Kabouter's recipe into BS and then having it convert to extract, however it just said to use 56lbs of extract.... and I don't think that's correct.... So any thoughts on an extract recipe for this other than the suggested one, or any modifications to the suggested one? Anything tried and true? I'm looking to brew this for my best friend, since it's his favorite beer, and he always complains that it's too expensive to buy. Homebrew to the rescue!

Yeah I really need to get a copy of Beersmith or some other software. The generator at hopville, while nice and easy to use doesn't always seem to give me what I am looking for.

I think it would be easy to figure out using a piece of software like that if you stick with the percentages and do the conversions from the original recipe.

www.beersmith.com Free Trial & cheap to buy if you like it.

I tried to plug Boerderij_Kabouter's recipe into BS and i could figure out the mash schedule...I'm trying to get a partial mash recipe for Oberon...anyone had luck with any other recipes out there?

I'm curious - how big is your brew pot ?

You could just half the recipe listed & go with a 2 1/2 gallon batch as all grain if you have the necessary size boil kettle.

I am currently drinking my first batch of a different clone recipe for Oberon - since I haven't been in MI for a while - and I cannot get it out here in MA (dammitall), I am only sampling mine - which is a tasty brew on its own. It reminds me of Oberon so far (for whatever that is worth).

Will post the recipe I used when I can - its significantly different from the one here ...

Cryptochronolite said:

My first recipe wasn't as close to the original but I knew I was on to something. I used Wyeast 1010 (VERY CLOSE) but not exact. I then decided to harvest some Bell's yest from a bottle. - that's when it became perfect.

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Did you just let the bottle sit of a little while then slowly poor the beer off and resuspend the pellet at the bottom in a yeast nutrient starter? Could you please give me more detail?

Cryptochronolite said:

I have only bottled this beer, I am going to keg this final batch and see how she does.

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How did the kegging turn out. I am going to try this an keg it as well. On a rating of 1-10 (10 being identical) how did you rate the finished product to bells?

didnt realize you were from columbus.. me too GO BUCKS!

ekjohns said:

Did you just let the bottle sit of a little while then slowly poor the beer off and resuspend the pellet at the bottom in a yeast nutrient starter? Could you please give me more detail?

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https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/culturing-schneider-weiss-yeast-bottle-77670/

this is going to be a noob question but i just want to double check. My LHBS has cascade but its AA is 8.7. Would i be better to just use 0.5 oz with the higher AA or use less to match the 8.7. will using less result in less of the hops flavor from dry hopping? on page to the all grain used cascade at 5.5

Use less to match the IBU's. Plug the numbers in a brewing program or an online bitterness calculator and you shall see. Hop AA are always changing.

www.tastybrew.com has some decent online calculators. Plug and chug!

ekjohns said:

this is going to be a noob question but i just want to double check. My LHBS has cascade but its AA is 8.7. Would i be better to just use 0.5 oz with the higher AA or use less to match the 8.7. will using less result in less of the hops flavor from dry hopping? on page to the all grain used cascade at 5.5

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Use AAU bittering calculations.

AAU = AA% x oz.

for example:

1oz. cascade at 8.7AA% equals 8.7 AAU.

To find out how much hops to use at a different AA% just work backwards.

8.7 AAU = 5 AA% x X oz.

8.7 / 5 = 1.74 oz. of cascade hops at 5 AA%.

well i would be using less cause the original recipe is 1 oz at 5.5% so i would be using 0.63 oz at 8.7% But as Cryptochronolite mentioned the dry hoping using the cascade is really what gave the beer the citrusy nose and i am afraid that by using half of the amount of hops that noise will be much less. am i right to think that or does it not matter? I can try shopping around for a lower AA cascade to try and aim at using 1 oz if necessary

For dry hopping, I ignore the AA% since with no heat no substantial isomerization of alpha acids will occur.

Dry hop by quantity, not by AA%.

Others may disagree, but that's what I and many others do. Dry hopping is more art, less science.

cool thanks!

This thread needs to split up I think. It starts out with one recipe that misses the mark and then ends with one that nails it.

well one is an all grain and one is a partial. it could be split but its a nice place to have both put together

ekjohns said:

well one is an all grain and one is a partial. it could be split but its a nice place to have both put together

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There is a recipe on page one that fell flat and then the one by Cryptochronolite that everyone is now following.

Ran it and it came out great. Gravity came out a bit high 1.065 but this was my first decoct and didnt realize I boiled off more than expected till it was too late. Still fantastic tastes like Oberon and extra kick was good. Wife likes it too, will defintely make it again maybe even double batch it up and keg one and bottle the remaining for some co-workers to keep the cogs greased so to speak. Some ppl bring their teachers apples, I bring co-workers beer.

Thanks Cryptochronolite

are you guys dry hopping cold or at ferm temps? and for a full 14 days?

also, are you using rice hulls?

Late comer in the thread...

Looks good guys. I take it for granted, living in MI, that Oberon is just part of summer.

My thought is, though, even if you can clone Oberon pretty closely, aren't there any improvements any of you would like in the beer? I'm brewing an Am wheat tomorrow after work, which is based off of an Oberon clone recipe (very similar to the one featured in the pictures), but adding/subtracting elements that fit my prediction of what Oberon could be for me. Calling it "Move Overon."


I'll let you know how it turns out.

Cryptochronolite said:

What I meant to say was, I love obsessing over the flavors of beers. I would like suggestions of what beer I can obsess over next.

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I think I'm in love.

soo, am I missing it, or is there a good extract or partial mash version out there?

i agree with oberon missing some taste. I know people love it and i was under the blind impression i loved it to until i bought some the other day sat down and cracked one open. after half a glass i was missing all the flavor and it tasted pretty bland....i then began missing my blue moon.

pinkfloyd4ever said:

soo, am I missing it, or is there a good extract or partial mash version out there?

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I will be trying out the extract version, that is provided around Page 3 of this thread, within the next couple weeks. I'll let you all know how my extract batch turns out.

ekjohns said:

i agree with oberon missing some taste. I know people love it and i was under the blind impression i loved it to until i bought some the other day sat down and cracked one open. after half a glass i was missing all the flavor and it tasted pretty bland....i then began missing my blue moon.

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My thoughts as well. While Oberon is a great beer, I feel obligated as a homebrewer to make it better.

I'm mashing right now what I think will be close, but have just a little extra to help fill in some gaps left by Oberon. I wrote the recipe a few weeks ago after I had my first Oberon of the year, and now finally have the chance to brew it.

I'm splitting a 10 gal batch into two fivers with two different kinds of yeast in starters. Should be a good comparison for yeast for the style. I'll give updates on the Move Overon as it comes to fruition.

TB

pinkfloyd4ever said:

soo, am I missing it, or is there a good extract or partial mash version out there?

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Based on the conversion factor of .6 pounds of extract = 1 pound of grain, I figure you need 3.6 pounds of DME and 2.4 pounds of pure wheat extract. You don't want to steep CaraPils because it has lots of unconverted starches, instead use 4 oz. malto-dextrin.

I am going to try the extract version of the Crypto recipe soon. I will be using Breiss wheat extract which is 65% wheat, 35% barley, so I will use 4 pounds of that plus 2 pounds of DME. This puts the ratio off a Little but it's more convenient.

Planning on making this beer today or tomorrow and after reading through this thread I see a couple different mash methods. Any consensus on which way might be better? decoct second or last?

Anyone else think it would be great if Larry Bell would be like most other brewers and offer his recipes for homebrewers? Every time I've gone to their store for supplies and asked about recipes for Two-Hearted, Oberon, Hopslam, etc., I was shut down like it was a corporate secret. "The recipes are not anything we share" they said. If I said anything negative about the operation after that I got the 1000 yard stare and now I don't go there anymore even though it's the closest LHBS. If you dig a little you'll see what a hypocrit Larry Bell is.

Thier yeast is easy enough to harvest and if anyone knocks out a good clone of anything they brew I'll make it and put it in my recipe book here.

Sorry for the rant. I can't deny they make good beers I just wish they were better represenatives of the craft and less corporate. Maybe Larry should meet Jim Koch or Fritz Maytag.

cuinrearview said:

Anyone else think it would be great if Larry Bell would be like most other brewers and offer his recipes for homebrewers? Every time I've gone to their store for supplies and asked about recipes for Two-Hearted, Oberon, Hopslam, etc., I was shut down like it was a corporate secret. "The recipes are not anything we share" they said. If I said anything negative about the operation after that I got the 1000 yard stare and now I don't go there anymore even though it's the closest LHBS. If you dig a little you'll see what a hypocrit Larry Bell is.

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Sorry, I know we're getting off topic here, but I don't go to Bell's HBS anymore either, unless it's for some small incidental thing I need quick. For me it's worth the time and extra gas to drive up to Siciliano's in Grand Rapids. They have easily 20 times the stuff and the staff is much more learned and passionate about brewing. I love Bells beer but Larry won't even join the Michigan Brewers' Guild.

I don't drink much Bell's anymore because of the czar mentality of the company or at least the owner of the company.

i dont drink bells cause the price is crazy high for nothing that extra ordinary