I know typically people dry hop in secondaries (or at least thats what people talk about far more often). Can you dry hop using only a primary? If so, how do you do it? Just wait the final gravity is met and then toss it in and let it sit for days/weeks?
Dry hopping in primary?
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Grinder12000
Well-Known Member
There is an article in BYO that says the BEST time to dry hop is just after the big fermentation has started to slow down. Thus - yes. In fact I'm Dry hopping in 5 minutes. It's been 5 days in the primary.
The reason mentioned is that since hops, even pellet hops are not sterile (according to Mark Garetz "Using Hops") you have less risk of contamination at this point.
He points out that really - the only WRONG time to add hops is before fermentation.
The reason mentioned is that since hops, even pellet hops are not sterile (according to Mark Garetz "Using Hops") you have less risk of contamination at this point.
He points out that really - the only WRONG time to add hops is before fermentation.
Pelikan
Well-Known Member
The exact mantra on dry-hopping is subject to individual tastes, but from what I've ascertained...
...there are a number of reasons why a secondary is a preferred vessel for dry hopping -- but for all intents and purposes, yes, you can dry hop in a primary. Give your beer 3 weeks for primary fermentation and conditioning, and 1 week after the hops are added to the primary for dry hopping (4 weeks total). Feel free to add or subtract from the hop "contact time" as you feel necessary.
...there are a number of reasons why a secondary is a preferred vessel for dry hopping -- but for all intents and purposes, yes, you can dry hop in a primary. Give your beer 3 weeks for primary fermentation and conditioning, and 1 week after the hops are added to the primary for dry hopping (4 weeks total). Feel free to add or subtract from the hop "contact time" as you feel necessary.
Bob
Well-Known Member
I prefer to dry-hop in the secondary simply for ease of mixing. I add a syrupy hops slurry - made with pellets and damn-near-boiling hot water - just after I start to rack the beer. The constant motion ensures the hops particles are well-dispersed in the beer.
YMMV!
Cheers,
Bob
YMMV!
Cheers,
Bob
Kauai_Kahuna
Well-Known Member
There is the risk of infection if added before primary fermentation, and the general rule of thumb is that active fermentation / C02 tends to blow off and reduce the impact of the aroma. I either dry hop in secondary, or in the primary after 5 days or so and let it sit for at least three days or more.
Tonedef131
Well-Known Member
The main concern with dry hopping is that primary fermentation is complete so the CO2 release doesn't blow off all the hop aroma. If you like oxidized beer go ahead rack it into a second vessel and run another risk of infection. If you like ease of use and fresh tasting beer throw those hops in the primary after fermentation is complete.
If you're going to dry-hop in the primary, allow two to three weeks for fermentation then add the hops and sample after one week. If it's to your liking, go ahead and bottle. If not, wait a couple days and check it again.
Pelikan
Well-Known Member
If you have a good quality auto-syphon, there's no way you'll oxidize your brew racking to a secondary. Secondaries have been around so long; if there was any real risk in using them, they wouldn't be so popular.
Why do I use a secondary? A few reasons. The first is that when you open your primary after primary fermentation is complete, the CO2 blanket is removed from the airspace and filled with ambient atmosphere, which is rich in O2. In short, the risk of oxidation is much more real when dry hopping the primary, as a secondary has little or no airspace (and that airspace is quickly filled by out-gassing).
Also, a secondary allows for clearing that would not be possible in a primary, on top of a yeast cake (and fruit refuse in the case of fruit beers). One can keep the brew in a secondary indefinitely and not have to worry about autolysis. And the list goes on.
Grinder12000
Well-Known Member
You are kidding right?
I bet you don't put your hand out the window when you are in a car either LOL.
Seriously - I have never heard of anyone really oxidizing their beer with a secondary unless they are totally drunk and stupid. However - I'm on Tonedef131 side when dry hopping.
As you can see there are many schools of thought's - some experts say hop right after fermentation and some say in the secondary. Dealers Choice. there is no right answer.
Actually, since CO2 is heavier than air, the CO2 layer will stay in the primary fermenter, even after opening. There's really no risk of getting outside air in just from opening the primary. You'd have to really try to get air in there.
Pelikan
Well-Known Member
CO2 is indeed lighter than air, but when you pop the lid off it creates turbulence and a pressure differential, displacing the CO2 blanket.
Kauai_Kahuna
Well-Known Member
OK, anything is possible! - BUT - Have you ever oxygenated beer to the point you tasted cardboard? Time to set up on a soup box! :rockin:
OK, I am the last to tempt the "....'s" but come on.
In reality, that does not tend to happen unless your using a very flat fermenter, and open it in a hurricane that mixes the beer up to oxygenate it.
Maybe if you pour from a carboy, into another carboy 2-20 feet away with a cardboard funnel splashing everything around everywhere you will be able to taste some cardboard tasting oxidization. But if your doing that, I'm pretty sure you have bigger problems and will not notice the off taste.
We are talking about dry hopping here, and when to do it, not yet another homebrewers boggy man.
To the OP, I again recommend in the primary after all (active) fermentation has stopped and leaving it in for 3 days to how every many weeks. (I do this with pellets, so they settle).
For spices, or fresh whole hops, secondary is fine, but again wait long enough for the full impact before racking/bottling/kegging.
--- Stepping off of soup box, grabbing another homebrew and logging out. ***
Fingers
Well-Known Member
I think you meant to say that CO2 is heavier than air.
I don't think you'd get a total removal of the blanket just by opening it. You might thin it a bit, but not eliminate it enitirely. In any case,you need a LOT of slopping to get oxidation. It takes a bit of work to oxidize beer.
Pelikan
Well-Known Member
You're correct, that's what I meant. I just find it ironic that someone would argue "dry hopping in a secondary is a sure road to oxidation," when the risk is much higher when doing it in the primary. The risk is most likely low either way, and would I lose sleep after dry hopping in the primary? No, certainly not. I was just pointing out an inconsistency.
noremorse1
Well-Known Member
Unless you use a carboy where, in place of a lid, you have a stopper or cap as well as a bottle neck and narrow opening.
To take that one step further, I use Better Bottles with a rubber cap:
Remove airlock, insert stainless steel racking cane through large hole. Remove plastic cap from small hole. Begin siphon with StarSan solution. Clamp hose to stop siphon. Attach hose to a straight stainless steel tube, insert tube into large hole of secondary's rubber cap, remove small rubber cap lid, begin siphon.
So how does my beer oxidize again when I transfer to my secondary? Exactly! :rockin:
Pelikan
Well-Known Member
It doesn't. I'm the one saying a secondary is the preferred means of dry hopping, as opposed to dry hopping in the primary...
Tonedef131
Well-Known Member
I did not say it was a sure road to oxidation, it is just an unnecessary step that does expose your beer to oxygen. When beer is in the primary, it is covered in CO2 which protects it from the outside air. Pulling the bung out of a carboy does not create enough turbulence for all of the CO2 to be flushed out of the vessel and get replaced with air. But when you rack to a secondary the entire vessel is full of air. Does this mean you beer will be oxidized? No, I was kidding and I thought that was obvious. Does this expose your beer to a lot more oxygen than sitting in the primary? Absolutely. Either way you probably aren't going to have oxidation flavor problems, especially in the time frame that us homebrewers drink our beers. But saying that you run a higher risk of oxidation in the primary is just plain silly.
Bob
Well-Known Member
You know, kegging brewers have a simple solution for "a secondary full of air": carbonic acid gas, or carbon dioxide.
Purge the carboy with CO2. Done. Worry over.
[shrug]
I don't know what all the fuss is about. As long as you're careful, clean, sanitary and thus a brewer worthy of the name, racking poses next to no threat from oxidation or any other negative influence. That's why there are these little things called procedures. They minimize negative effects to the point of removing worry, so long as good procedures are followed diligently.
Being aware of the potential downsides in a procedure and modifying or eliminating the procedure because you can't eliminate or even minimize the potential negative effects, that I understand. But to eliminate what many brewers feel is a necessary procedure because of a potential effect that may or may not have even been observed in your brewery is simply fear.
If you fear transferring your beer, don't transfer it. Simple as that.
Cheers!
Bob
Purge the carboy with CO2. Done. Worry over.
[shrug]
I don't know what all the fuss is about. As long as you're careful, clean, sanitary and thus a brewer worthy of the name, racking poses next to no threat from oxidation or any other negative influence. That's why there are these little things called procedures. They minimize negative effects to the point of removing worry, so long as good procedures are followed diligently.
Being aware of the potential downsides in a procedure and modifying or eliminating the procedure because you can't eliminate or even minimize the potential negative effects, that I understand. But to eliminate what many brewers feel is a necessary procedure because of a potential effect that may or may not have even been observed in your brewery is simply fear.
If you fear transferring your beer, don't transfer it. Simple as that.
Cheers!
Bob
