Why don't more people do this ...? (multi-step sparge)

Ive been brewing for a few years, and have my processes down pretty well. I can basically brew with my eyes closed.

I started out all grain mashing in a 5 gallon round gott/igloo cooler with a ss braid. After a while, it became apparent if i was accepting 1:1 grist/water as a minimum, i was capped at using only so many pounds of grain; if i wanted a bigger beer, i either had to mash twice or add malt extract.

Then it hit me: My boil kettle is like 12 gallons. I can just mash in that, on the stove. Then, for sparging, i could dump (most of) that into the cooler, drain the first runnings. if necessary (due to volume constraints), i can dump whatever didnt fit before draining into it and drain again before sparging.

Eventually i got a bigger cooler, and could, in theory, mash in that, but the stove-top boil kettle mash stuck with me. I ALWAYS hit my mash temp, because i can provide direct heat. I can take the lid off if i want, and stir the crap out of it, and not lose any heat. My efficiency typically hovers around 78%, using a single batch sparge.

So, i was wondering, why is it that more people don't do this? am i missing some downside?

SouthBay said:

drain the first runnings

Click to expand...

Into what? You now have a cooler full of unlautered wort and a boil kettle that still contains some of the mash. You still need a large vessel in which to collect your runnings...

At 1.25/gallon I get 13 pounds of grain in my 5 gallon cooler. That size cooler has been sufficient to mash 99.9% of my beers in.

I love threads that have titles like "Why don't...." More people don't "whatever" because there's always multiple ways of doing things. If you love your way of doing things, that's skiffy. But there's always gonna be many ways to do things that work just as well for other people. We can share what works for us, but we don't have to expect other folks to jump on our bandwagon.

Well, i have other pots and pans. I have another pot that i use sometimes, or even an empty fermenter.

Revvy said:

I love threads that have titles like "Why don't...." More people don't "whatever" because there's always multiple ways of doing things. If you love your way of doing things, that's skiffy. But there's always gonna be many ways to do things that work just as well for other people. We can share what works for us, but we don't have to expect other folks to jump on our bandwagon.

Click to expand...

Well, the thread wasnt intended to try to convert people to 'my way.' I'm all for people doing what works best for them, and lord knows theres like a bajillion ways to make beer.

I guess the two things i'd like to know are:

1. Am i missing some potential downside using this process?
2. Is the 'mash in a cooler' style of brewing's main advantage over this process that there's one less thing to wash?

SouthBay said:

1. Am i missing some potential downside using this process?

Click to expand...

Consistency and temperature control. If you're haphazardly pouring most of your mash into the cooler and accomplishing your "partial sparge" while a small portion of the mash cools rapidly in what will become your boil kettle, it will be very difficult to achieve consistent results. Sure, you'll get close, and that might be good enough for you, but it's certainly a disadvantage. Also, if you're not mashing out, your sparge process may lend itself to dryer beers due to continued conversion and potential temperature loss during your two step sparge.

SouthBay said:

2. Is the 'mash in a cooler' style of brewing's main advantage over this process that there's one less thing to wash?

Click to expand...

No. It's a cheap way to craft a temperature stable mash/lauter vessel. Homebrewers often do not employ a lauter tun, not necessarily to ease cleanup, but rather to lower cost and simplify the overall process. When a lauter tun is used, it's usually big enough to hold the entire volume of the mash.

SouthBay said:

So, i was wondering, why is it that more people don't do this? am i missing some downside?

Click to expand...

Yeah, it sounds like a huge pain. Why do all that transferring back and forth?

Yes, the pouring back and forth was a huge pain. Which is why i got a larger cooler (well, had one, but converted it).

So, i'm not necessarily asking about my 'how i used to do it,' but rather the revised process - mash in a boil kettle, dump it all into a single cooler, then drain and sparge like normal.

Sorry for any confusion; the 'how i used to do it' was mostly for background.

Re: mashout - mashout is easy. I just apply heat and stir until the mash is at 168 and then it's mashed out.

PS: thanks for the input!

SouthBay said:

Yes, the pouring back and forth was a huge pain. Which is why i got a larger cooler (well, had one, but converted it).

So, i'm not necessarily asking about my 'how i used to do it,' but rather the revised process - mash in a boil kettle, dump it all into a single cooler, then drain and sparge like normal.

Sorry for any confusion; the 'how i used to do it' was mostly for background.

Re: mashout - mashout is easy. I just apply heat and stir until the mash is at 168 and then it's mashed out.

PS: thanks for the input!

Click to expand...

If it all fits in the cooler, why are you not just mashing in the cooler??

If you like having the ability to step mash and mash-out without infusion, a direct heat MLT works. Why don't you add a ball valve and bazooka screen to the pot and lauter from there. Rinse pot, add wort and boil. Be easier than transferring hot mash from one vessel to another.

AnOldUR said:

If you like having the ability to step mash and mash-out without infusion, a direct heat MLT works. Why don't you add a ball valve and bazooka screen to the pot and lauter from there. Rinse pot, add wort and boil. Be easier than transferring hot mash from one vessel to another.

Click to expand...

Its on my 'to do' list! Along with getting a second boil kettle, a multi-burner stand, etc, all to make it easier.

As far as just not mashing in the cooler, it mostly just came about because i needed more volume for a big beer a while back. It had several rests (protein, beta, alpha, mashout), and for some reason it just stuck.

It wasnt until i brewed the other day that it dawned on me that most people mash in their coolers, like i used to. hence, this thread to help me understand if there's any downside or pitfalls with this method that i'll need to avoid.

SouthBay said:

Its on my 'to do' list! Along with getting a second boil kettle, a multi-burner stand, etc, all to make it easier.

As far as just not mashing in the cooler, it mostly just came about because i needed more volume for a big beer a while back. It had several rests (protein, beta, alpha, mashout), and for some reason it just stuck.

It wasnt until i brewed the other day that it dawned on me that most people mash in their coolers, like i used to. hence, this thread to help me understand if there's any downside or pitfalls with this method that i'll need to avoid.

Click to expand...

There are many people who mash in their boil kettle and have also eliminated the need for a cooler altogether. It's called brew-in-a-bag or BIAB.

The downside to mashing in a kettle is temperature stability. But many BIABers have solved that problem by wrapping their kettle in sleeping bags during the mash or fashioning more sophisticated insulating jackets for their kettle. My brewing partner and I just aim our mash temperature two degrees higher. We lose four degrees over the course of the mash and it averages out. You can of course heat the kettle during the mash to make up for temperature loss but I find that to be inaccurate.

I tried this a few batches ago, thinking it would be easier to mash out simply by raising the temp, rather than adding boiling water. I also thought that I could easily adjust the temp of the mash after doughing in.

It reminded me of the old days doing step mashes with the "rests". I found it difficult to actually control the temp. I use a heavy grade stainless pot, and the temp was hard to stabilize and control, even with alot of stirring. All the stirring and stress made it tiring.

Single infusion mashing in a cooler with a false bottom is too quick and easy to try the old methods. I usually mash with 1.25 quarts per pound, and add a couple gallons of boiling water(slowly with stirring) to bring it up to mash out temp. The extra water thins the mash for vorlauf, and I fly sparge after drainoff begins. The modification of the grains makes this the easiest way to go IMHO.

Griff777 said:

I tried this a few batches ago, thinking it would be easier to mash out simply by raising the temp, rather than adding boiling water. I also thought that I could easily adjust the temp of the mash after doughing in.

It reminded me of the old days doing step mashes with the "rests". I found it difficult to actually control the temp. I use a heavy grade stainless pot, and the temp was hard to stabilize and control, even with alot of stirring. All the stirring and stress made it tiring.

Single infusion mashing in a cooler with a false bottom is too quick and easy to try the old methods. I usually mash with 1.25 quarts per pound, and add a couple gallons of boiling water(slowly with stirring) to bring it up to mash out temp. The extra water thins the mash for vorlauf, and I fly sparge after drainoff begins. The modification of the grains makes this the easiest way to go IMHO.

Click to expand...

interesting. So, did you try mashing in the kettle on the stove top, or a propane burner?

FWIW, ive been doing it on the stove, inside. I dont lose much temp wise, unless i remove the lid and stir it all up. I've noticed the more i do this, the more heat i have to re-apply, but the better efficiency i get.

Maybe its b/c i'm doing it indoors, in a temp controlled environment, on a (relatively speaking) lower heat output device that i've had good results with temp control?

And honestly, i just couldnt get beersmith to accurately predict my strike water temps! I was always a few degrees too high, or too low. Maybe a byproduct of an inaccurate grain scale?

I mash in my kettle, usually do a beta rest, heat and stir to an alpha rest temp then mashout, then dump into my cooler mash tun with manifold (now a lauter tun), vorlauf then drain and double batch sparge.

I found this method gives better extraction (thanks to the alpha rest) and good body and head whilst getting good attenuation.

SouthBay said:

Well, i have other pots and pans. I have another pot that i use sometimes, or even an empty fermenter.

Click to expand...

Bernie Brewer said:

Yeah, it sounds like a huge pain. Why do all that transferring back and forth?

Click to expand...

You can do whatever you'd like, and I'm glad it works for you! But you asked "why don't more people do this....?" and the answer is because what a pain for most people. BIAB is probably the closet description to what you're doing, and I don't do that simply because I can't lift 20 pounds of wet grain in a bag out of a vessel. Pouring first runnings, second runnings, moving the grainbag, etc, just wouldn't work out for me.

I'm with Bernie- moving and transferring stuff is too much work for me. I mash and sparge in my MLT, then drain it to the boil kettle. That's about it.

This thread sounds like a keggle mash tun setup without spending the money for a keggle