has anyone ever used these? They are onsale with lids by me for just over $3 each, They are #2 plastic, same as the similar style buckets sold by my local supply store for $15. Are these safe to use? Drill a hole in the top, fit with a rubber gromet for your valve. Seems like a budget-friendly way to ferment some wine. Anyone have any experience with these?
Has anyone ever used the Orange Home depot buckets???
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llazy_llama
Well-Known Member
Yes, they work just fine. Keep in mind that with beer, you're going to need a blowoff tube for a 5 gallon batch, and you should expect to lose some beer to the blowoff. They do work, and they are safe, although I feel they're better reserved for grain storage due to their limited size.
llazy_llama
Well-Known Member
Just a note, a quick search of the forum will reveal dozens of other brewers who have used them in the past or who currently use them. I've yet to hear a horror story from a Homer brewer. The only real difference they have with Ale Pails (besides the price) is their smaller size.
TwoHeadsBrewing
Well-Known Member
There are a couple people on there that line their buckets with "turkey bags" to aid in cleanup. You could easily do this with the cheap orange homer buckets and this would create a food safe lining...and also make it simple to clean up.
arturo7
Well-Known Member
The materials used for these buckets, HDPE + colorant, as well as the manufacturing techniques, are not required to meet the FDA spec for food contact. Technically they should not be used in the brewing process.
However, it would appear from the previous posts that they are being used for this purpose without noticeable consequence.
This post does nothing to answer your question but at least you've got the straight poop.
However, it would appear from the previous posts that they are being used for this purpose without noticeable consequence.
This post does nothing to answer your question but at least you've got the straight poop.
are these saterile right out of the box? I like this idea...
TwoHeadsBrewing
Well-Known Member
I think they are, but I would spray them with some StarSan just for peace of minde.
llazy_llama
Well-Known Member
I usually spray them with Star San just to be sure. That may or may not be over sanitizing, but it gives me piece of mind.
If you do try out the turkey bags, keep in mind that they're about $1 each. Not a huge investment, but over an extended timeline, just using glass or better bottles ends up being cheaper. They do, however, make cleanup pretty much instantaneous. Rack brew, remove turkey bag, add new turkey bag, spray with sanitizer, pitch new brew. From old to new in about 5 seconds.
If you do try out the turkey bags, keep in mind that they're about $1 each. Not a huge investment, but over an extended timeline, just using glass or better bottles ends up being cheaper. They do, however, make cleanup pretty much instantaneous. Rack brew, remove turkey bag, add new turkey bag, spray with sanitizer, pitch new brew. From old to new in about 5 seconds.
+1 one to this, I have answered many questions, and provide chemist info as to the safety of using them....So their is plenty of info to help you decide.
If these are five gallon buckets the bags might work. I just got done with a batch of Graff (cider) and tried to use a turkey bag for the first time and discovered that on a 6.5 gallon bucket they don't come up anywhere near high enough to the top. I ditched the idea and just went with the sanitized bucket. These were Hefty brand oven bags, not sure if Reynolds or someone makes a bag that works better?
BrewBeemer
Well-Known Member
What I was told last week I asked 5 LHBS stores in the San Francisco bay area about people using large square doggie food containers with screw on lids to store uncrushed grains in. Five for five said do not use them, only use food grade containers. Those orange HD buckets were also a big no for grain storage.
I was just asking and this is what I got for answers. I have cake frosting containers that must hold 6 gallons or more that I will use, before sealing the lid give them a binute of Argon gas with a hose at the bottom of the grain bucket to displace the air before sealing the lid.
This with uncrushed grain, crushed grain will be used with a couple hours or less.
I was just asking and this is what I got for answers. I have cake frosting containers that must hold 6 gallons or more that I will use, before sealing the lid give them a binute of Argon gas with a hose at the bottom of the grain bucket to displace the air before sealing the lid.
This with uncrushed grain, crushed grain will be used with a couple hours or less.
I got a stack of eight in which to store my grain. One of the middle ones had some gum wrappers and bird poop in it. I'm guessing that it was not very sanitary "right out of the box." Do yourself a favor and wash them, followed by your sanitizer of choice.
Five for five would also prefer that you shop in their stores instead of Home Depot...
One of two reason sthe lhbs's said no...because it would cost them a sale if they said yes (if you can find them cheaper at a pet store), or they just are "old dogs" set in their ways who don't read forums/brewing mags/listen to podcasts and still believe in things like HSA, and autolysis.....or just are ignorant, and spouting not from any basis in fact.....
Many people use those pet food containers as fermenters, they are called VIttle vaults, sold at petsmart...and there is one LHBS online that has bought, IIRC, 22 gallons vittle vaults wholesale, and has slapped a gasket and an airlock, and a spigot on them, and is selling them for about 100 dollars...So evidently not every homebrew shop shares that sentiment, that they are unfit to be fermenters..
Wine Making Supplies :: EC Kraus
If you don't believe me, here's a pic of the Gamma Plastics, 22 gallon Petsmart Vittle Vault..
Think they bear a slight resemblance to each other???
Oh, and just an update for those who want to go the turkey bag route in an otherwise "unsafe" fermenter. Turns out the Reynolds brand bags are substantially bigger than the Hefty ones. Thanks Google! Looks like I'll be picking up some Reynolds bags.
Synovia
Well-Known Member
From Petsmart.com:
"The first, absolutely airtight storage container for dry pet foods.... Vittles Vault locks in freshness and flavor. ... Made of food grade, high-impact resistant plastic."
Sawdustguy
Well-Known Member
My second hobby is Competition BBQ (The TwoFat Polocks BBQ Team). I often peak in at the ((The Virtual Weber Bullet Website). Here is an article on Food Grade Plastic Containers For Brining). I am sure the same would apply for beer. I am not going to comment. Let your own conscience be your guide.
What Is Food Grade Plastic?
The U.S. Food & Drug Administration (FDA) requires that plastics used in food packaging be of greater purity than plastics used for non-food packaging. This is commonly referred to as food grade plastic. Plastics used to package pharmaceuticals are held to an even higher standard than food grade.
Food grade plastic does not contain dyes or recycled plastic deemed harmful to humans. However, this does not mean that food grade plastic cannot contain recycled plastic. The FDA has detailed regulations concerning recycled plastics in food packaging.
Another aspect of food grade plastic is matching the appropriate type of plastic to the food in question. Foods that are highly acidic or that contain alcohol or fats can leach plastic additives from the packaging or container into the food. As a result, you should only use plastic containers that are FDA approved for the particular type of food the plastic will come into contact with.
Finally, it should be noted that a plastic container can no longer be considered food grade if it has been used to store non-food items like chemicals, paint, or detergent.
Not All HDPE Containers Are Food Grade
There is a common misconception that all containers made of white plastic or HDPE plastic bearing the symbol are food grade containers. This is not true.
If you are considering the purchase of a container from some place other than a kitchen or restaurant supply store, and the container is not clearly labeled as "food safe" or being made of food grade plastic, then you should assume that it is not food grade and you should not brine in itunless you line it with a food grade plastic bag.
What Is Food Grade Plastic?
The U.S. Food & Drug Administration (FDA) requires that plastics used in food packaging be of greater purity than plastics used for non-food packaging. This is commonly referred to as food grade plastic. Plastics used to package pharmaceuticals are held to an even higher standard than food grade.
Food grade plastic does not contain dyes or recycled plastic deemed harmful to humans. However, this does not mean that food grade plastic cannot contain recycled plastic. The FDA has detailed regulations concerning recycled plastics in food packaging.
Another aspect of food grade plastic is matching the appropriate type of plastic to the food in question. Foods that are highly acidic or that contain alcohol or fats can leach plastic additives from the packaging or container into the food. As a result, you should only use plastic containers that are FDA approved for the particular type of food the plastic will come into contact with.
Finally, it should be noted that a plastic container can no longer be considered food grade if it has been used to store non-food items like chemicals, paint, or detergent.
Not All HDPE Containers Are Food Grade
There is a common misconception that all containers made of white plastic or HDPE plastic bearing the symbol are food grade containers. This is not true.
If you are considering the purchase of a container from some place other than a kitchen or restaurant supply store, and the container is not clearly labeled as "food safe" or being made of food grade plastic, then you should assume that it is not food grade and you should not brine in itunless you line it with a food grade plastic bag.
jkarp
Well-Known Member
I've been fermenting in Vittles Vaults for years. Grown no extra appendages, beer always tastes great, even won awards, yadda yadda...
The thing about the homer buckets, and if the OP had searched for previous discussion on it, I posted that the homer buckets although not labeled as such are indeed foodgrade...It was confirmed a couple years ago on another brew board by a chemist who was a homebrewer who actually new some of the chemists on staff at HD who came out with the ubiquitous bucket....and they confirmed that they were indeed, although Homedepot didn't bother paying to get FDA approval for it and therefore didn't label it as such, food grade.......
BlackDogBrewing
Well-Known Member
I've never used them for brewing before, but a friend did and his beer turned out fine, only a few batches, though. I've used them for about 10 years for tropical fish aquarium maintenace, and I haven't had any problems.
Budzu
Well-Known Member
I lagered in one of those buckets once (home depot), because of space constraints in a fridge I was using. I did have to use a blowoff, and I couldn't even fit the full 5 gallons into it. They are a poor choice in my opinion not because of the safety, but the size. But who knows... maybe I poisoned myself a bit as well. But I'm still here.
They are very useful however for sanitary storage of small pieces of brewing equipment (hoses, connections, etc.). I have 4 around that I use just to measure several gallons of water at a time, storage, and 2 are always full of star san and PBW or oxyclean.
Cheers!
They are very useful however for sanitary storage of small pieces of brewing equipment (hoses, connections, etc.). I have 4 around that I use just to measure several gallons of water at a time, storage, and 2 are always full of star san and PBW or oxyclean.
Cheers!
arturo7
Well-Known Member
Man, I'm sorry. I can't let this pass.
HD does not have chemists on staff working on HDPE buckets. They are way too cheap for that. They buy them from companies that mold them. The pail someone buys in Maine is not the same pail that someone buys in Oregon. HD buys as cheaply as is possible.
Case in point, I sold an injection molding machine and a used 5gal pail mold to a guy in San Diego who produced for HD. He ran the cheapest wide-spec HDPE resin he could find to keep his costs down. He also ran quite a bit a scrap material. The only thing he really worried about was consistent color.
Would these pails get an FDA spec? Doubtful. But as Rev mentions neither HD or the molder would pay for it regardless.
Take that for what it is worth. It seems most everyone has good luck with them. But from what I've seen first hand, I'd only use them for paint or washing the car.
Okay, I am confused with this thread. Are people using these buckets for grain storage either crushed or uncrushed? I was planning on using one to store my crushed grains for probably a day or so before I brewed.
HD has a white FOOD GRADE LABELED bucket for just a bit more... it even has nice gallon markings on it... I use the orange ones for cleaning, spent grain transport, etc.
khiddy
Well-Known Member
You'll be fine if you're using the orange HD bucket just for dry grain storage. Sounds to me like the bigger concern would be if you were fermenting (or, worse, mashing grains) in a non-100% guaranteed Food-Grade bucket.
Dry storage of grains for less than 24 hours? You should be just fine. But if you can spring for the Food-Grade bucket, why not?
Dry storage of grains for less than 24 hours? You should be just fine. But if you can spring for the Food-Grade bucket, why not?
Thanks khiddy.
The only problem I've encountered with this bucket is actually with the lid. I tried to drill/cut into one once and it literally fell apart into pieces. I basically just ripped it apart with my bare hands with no effort whatsoever. Maybe I just got a crappy one, but I'd be careful trying to modify it until you get a better feel for what you're working with...
CheapBrewer
Member
Hi, I've been reading this thread with some interest. I am a retired chemist who worked in pharmaceutical development and a cheap a$$ brewer! I have been discouraged by the prices I've seen lately for fermentation/bottling buckets and started wondering if The Home Depot might be the answer to my issue. It seems that there is a lot of speculation and not a lot of data on this thread. I guess that the real question is, "What would make this bucket unsafe?" Now, I'm pretty sure that no one would collect safety data on an industrial product that is not intended for food use. Testing and the assiciated record keeping/oversight is quite expensive. So, that leaves us with doing our own risk assessment. I would think that there are two risks in using buckets outside their intended use. 1) Impact to quality. (flavor, appearance, consistency) 2) Impact on safety. (The third arm argument) I think that we can tackle these together because both impacts come from the same sources. I think that there are 3 sources that these impacts might come from. (Feel free to suggest more... I'm just speculating here) (To be continued...)
CheapBrewer
Member
(Continued...)
1) Contamination... You would have to ask yourself what was this bucket used for before? Paint? Trash? Rat poison? And are you confident that you can get it clean. Plastics may seem solid, but they aren't like glass. The can adsorb things from whatever was in them before. (Although food safe, I have never been able to get the smell out of McDonald's pickle buckets!)
2) Leachables... These are things that are in the material itself that come out with contact. These include dyes, plasticizers (chemicals that keep the plastic soft) and the plastic itself. I think that hdpe (high density polyethylene) is pretty safe as well as the standard coloring materials used to make the buckets. I would be concerned about whete the buckets are sourced, however. Suppliers from Mexico and China have been known to be less than honest about what they use to make low cost products. (You can look up any number of scandals with both human and pet food products, lead compounds are still the cheapest colorants... that's why they were used in the first place)
(Continued again...wow, how I do prattle on...)
Right next to the orange buckets, they usually have a stack of white ones. They're food-grade.
CheapBrewer
Member
(Continued...again)
3) Volatiles... These are vapors, solvents, and other various stinks! These don't necessarily need contact to spoil your stuff. There are various solvents used in plastics manufacture, some are human safe, but will still guve your product that little extra something that will make a beer judge scribble furiously on their score card. :-(
You can find these by simply sticking your nose in the bucket and inhaling deeply. Sometimes you get almond, sometimes band-aid, sometimes just a chemical smell. These will all infuse into whatever you have in the bucket over time. The level of contamination is a product of dilution and time. ie. 1 hour of bottling a 5 gallon batch is probably not noticable. Storing grain in a sealed container for months is something else entirely.
So, what does this all mean?
Can you use an orange bucket for brewing? I think that you have to decide for your self the level of risk that you're willing to take for both safety and quality.
A new washed/sanitized bucket from a reputable seller, (not the painter that lives next door) would probably be safe. Letting a new bucket 'air out' for a few weeks may reduce the volatiles coming out of the plastics. Personally, for storing grains for long periods, I would invest in food service containers. But, that's just me.
I'd be interested to hear your comments and experiences.
I haven't tried fermenting in a Homer bucket yet. Did you get any off flavors? Did you grow a third arm? Did you win a brewing competition?
CheapBrewer
Member
Sorry about all the typos...fat fingers on tiny phone...
CheapBrewer
Member
I haven't seen these. Do they 'stink' when you give them a strong sniff?
No, they're food-grade. There are 2gal food-grade buckets, too. Great for making a 1.25G batch to then rack into a 1gal jug for long term conditioning.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leaktite-5-gal-70mil-Food-Safe-Bucket-White-005GFSWH020/300197644
CheapBrewer
Member
Excellent!
I'll have to check these out!
I only use fermenters a couple of times before I retire them to cleaning/sanitizing containers. Buying from Midwest becomes too expensive....
The only benefit of the 'brew bucket' is their size. You can't do a 5G batch in a 5G bucket. They work for me as my standard volume in fermenter is 4G.
Hope this is not too far off topic, but I read a tip over the weekend regarding grain storage, which has been a challenge for me. The suggestion was put your grain in a corny keg, and purge with CO₂. The purpose is to retain freshness and prevent sawtoothed grain beetles. This seems like a great idea if you have a few extra kegs, although getting the grain out may be a little awkward.
Field to consumer might take a couple years. Time spent in silo, truck, warehouse, truck, warehouse, store shelf, etc, etc. I doubt the last few weeks or months in a cozy CO2 environment will change much.
That's not to say you shouldn't keep it dry and protected from vermin.
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