Batch sparge times...

Having a discussion with someone regarding length of batch sparge times. Palmer swears by 15min rests after sparging and my buddy is swearing by the same. I usually just sparge, stir, vorlauf and drain w/in 0-5min. He's thinking by letting the sparge water sit in the grains longer we will get better effeciency but I coulda swore I remember reading a good thread on here about how someone experimented with these times and concluded that you could let it sit for up to 30min and the effeciency wouldnt increase as long your initial mash had full conversion of the grains. Can anyone confirm this, or if nothing else point me in the direction of that thread? I've tried searching and was unable to locate it.

Thanks

I'd tend to agree with you. The conversion process is done. You are just rinsing the grains. I just add the sparge stir the holy hell out of it and vorlauf for about 10 minutes then repeat with the 2nd sparge. You may be thinking of bobby_m's technique if so the links in his sig.

I agree with you guys. Initially I would let my sparge water sit for awhile before draining and I got a higher efficiency, but it turns out I wasn't fully converted. Now I mash slightly longer and drain the sparge right away, after stirring quite a bit of course!

I don't rest and get about 80% efficiency batch sparging. I do stir thoroughly before every runoff though.

I just recently started batch sparging and I noticed that my effgiciency is not as good as when I fly sparged. I think it might be because I dont stir before I drain and that might be my problem.

baer19d said:

I just recently started batch sparging and I noticed that my effgiciency is not as good as when I fly sparged. I think it might be because I dont stir before I drain and that might be my problem.

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Yes, that can certainly do it.

FWIW, sparge rest time is one thing I've tested repeatedly. I've found there is absolutely no benefit to any rest after adding the sparge water. I just stir in the water, vorlauf, and runoff.

So lets say you mash for 60 min, do you then stir it before collecting your first runnings?

Runyank said:

So lets say you mash for 60 min, do you then stir it before collecting your first runnings?

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No need to stir after the mash, just make sure you have conversion. Stirring just serves to make sure you rinse all the grain and evenly distributes the water. You can get dough balls sparging just as easily as when mashing.

ChrisKennedy said:

I don't rest and get about 80% efficiency batch sparging. I do stir thoroughly before every runoff though.

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I think that might be where i'm suffering. I've been getting around 70-73% but i only stir after adding the sparge water and always forget before runoff.

Do you get your grains locally, or do you mill your own?

I mill my own.

You don't have to stir before the first runoff. Just the sparging runoffs. 70-73%, particularly with store-milled grain, is a perfectly acceptable efficiency.

ChrisKennedy said:

I mill my own.

You don't have to stir before the first runoff. Just the sparging runoffs. 70-73%, particularly with store-milled grain, is a perfectly acceptable efficiency.

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Ah ok. Just curious because I remember you answering some of my questions over on BeerAdvocate about Brew Hut and thought you might be using their grains.

And sorry, i guess i should have clarified.. I did mean the sparging runoffs.

Yes, stirring is critical in batch sparging after adding sparge water.

I had a large efficiency increase when I split my sparge water into 2 different batches. This way you are diluting the remaining wort more and more, so by the end of the second batch sparge, the wort you will inevitably leave behind is lower gravity than if you left the same amount of wort behind after only 1 large batch sparge.

ChrisKennedy said:

Yes, stirring is critical in batch sparging after adding sparge water.

I had a large efficiency increase when I split my sparge water into 2 different batches. This way you are diluting the remaining wort more and more, so by the end of the second batch sparge, the wort you will inevitably leave behind is lower gravity than if you left the same amount of wort behind after only 1 large batch sparge.

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I do a double sparge as well and although i eye-ball it, i try make them of equal amounts.

Are you stirring when you add the sparge water, and after letting it rest (if you let is rest). I'm basically just been stirring it up real good when i add the sparge water, let is rest maybe 5min, then vorlauf till it runs clear, drain and repeat one more time.

I'm thinking i'm just getting about the most effeciency i'll see out of the LHBS grain and maybe should consider my own mill.

I think the theory behind letting it sit is so that the sticky wort gets a chance to be soaked off the grain. At least that's how I see it, but I didn't let it sit for more than about 30 seconds last night when I batch sparged.

riored4v said:

I do a double sparge as well and although i eye-ball it, i try make them of equal amounts.

Are you stirring when you add the sparge water, and after letting it rest (if you let is rest). I'm basically just been stirring it up real good when i add the sparge water, let is rest maybe 5min, then vorlauf till it runs clear, drain and repeat one more time.

I'm thinking i'm just getting about the most effeciency i'll see out of the LHBS grain and maybe should consider my own mill.

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I don't let it sit. I drain off all the first runnings into the boil kettle, and then add half of the sparge water (I eyeball it as well, that is definitely fine). I stir the hell out of that, making sure to kick up every little bit of grain that has settled from the last runoff. Then I immediately start running off again. I only "vorlauf" about .5-1qt, and then just drop the tube in the kettle and pour that .5-1qt back on top of the grain.

I keep forgetting to stir the mash after adding the sparge water and I think thats why my efficiency has been in the lower range.

****, I dont even stir the grain around when I pour in my batch sparges. I vorloff and run off quickly also. I get 82% efficiency.

I thought the short wait was to let the grain bed settle again? Funny how so many of us do the same thing - but for different reasons. Next thing you'll tell me is the chicken bones and lit candle have no effect on my efficiency either.

-OCD

beerocd said:

I thought the short wait was to let the grain bed settle again? Funny how so many of us do the same thing - but for different reasons. Next thing you'll tell me is the chicken bones and lit candle have no effect on my efficiency either.

-OCD

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They dont???

Runyank said:

They dont???

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Pffft... everyone know the bones and the candle don't have any effect. It's the naked chanting that does it.

When I'm sparging I don't let it rest. I vorlauf before the tun stops spinning and I've been getting over 90%.

ChshreCat said:

I think the theory behind letting it sit is so that the sticky wort gets a chance to be soaked off the grain. At least that's how I see it, but I didn't let it sit for more than about 30 seconds last night when I batch sparged.

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That's what I thought many years ago when I did the rest. Then I found the truth! Remember, the theory behind batch sparging is that the sugar is dissolved into the water, not in the grain. Once you accept that, it becomes clear why the rest is of no benefit.