bleach in homebrewing

i rinse my no-rinse sanitizer (iodophor) with chlorinated water right from the tap...unless your living in chernobyl, or near 3 mile island, tap water is safe and sanitized. it has to be BY LAW.

(by sanitized i mean it contains acceptable levels of coliforms, enterics and/or other microbes)

dangermouse said:

where can u get star san and idophor in the uk........i only see vwp at the lhbs which is clorine based

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Having only visited Heathrow for 45 minutes, I couldn't really say, but I imagine BlightyBrewer and Caplan have it all figured out by now...drop them a PM or maybe they'll pop in.

My $.02...

Anyone who reads my posts here knows that I'm just about the cheapest bastard here. So naturally, I started brewing using bleach as my sole sanitizing agent. (Well, that and some one-step that I got for free.) I rinsed with hot tap water and didn't worry about it. No infections, no chlorine tastes, no nothing.

But I switched to Iodophor and am very happy with it. It's still quite cheap (cheaper than one-step or star san), and I really like the convenience of very short contact times and no-rinse. Just for the time it takes off bottling alone, it's worth the slightly higher expense over bleach, IMHO. Yeah, it's messy and discolors plastic tubes. Oh well.

RichBrewer said:

What data does anyone have on this? I've heard hours, weeks, and it's good if it's still amber.

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Someone posted an interview on here with the president (I think) of BTF...according to him the answer is, as long as it's still amber. For me, it loses it's color in about 12 hours, tho if it's in a white plastic bucket the staining makes it look colored for a long time after that, which IMHO is leading some to think it's still active.

Bjorn Borg said:

i rinse my no-rinse sanitizer (iodophor) with chlorinated water right from the tap...unless your living in chernobyl, or near 3 mile island, tap water is safe and sanitized. it has to be BY LAW.

(by sanitized i mean it contains acceptable levels of coliforms, enterics and/or other microbes)

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Tap water is not sanitized...not according to FDA definition of sanitization anyway.

Imperial Walker said:

Nobody said they were rinsing with DIRTY water, just HOT water.
If you boil your rinse water to sanitize it, then it can be QUITE useful for rinsing bleach off of your gear while not compromising the sanitation effort.

This is how I sanitized for over 7 years of brewing. I just eventually got sick of boiling water and rinsing and switched to Iodophor.

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Um, nobody mentioned how hot the water was either.

Seems kinda labor intensive to me, as well as a waste of resources and time. I'm happy that you have had such terrific results with Iodophor.

Baron von BeeGee said:

I'm not following. Many, many homebrewers have used bleach for sanitation purposes for years without incident. I'd say the empirical evidence suggests there's a very valid point for using it.

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If it works for you, and it ain't broke don't fix it. This is just my subjective opinion on this matter.

cweston said:

Anyone who reads my posts here knows that I'm just about the cheapest bastard here.

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What!? Someone dares be a cheaper bastard than the almighty Imperial Walker!?

That's it! I'm going to stop santizing everything, re-use my specialty grains, bottle in dirty soda bottles, and cut my extract in half and substitute cane sugar for fermentables.

I'll show YOU who's cheap!

-walker

glibbidy said:

Um, nobody mentioned how hot the water was either.

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does it matter?

if the water is clean, there is no harm in rinsing with it. That was my point.



-walker

Imperial Walker said:

That's it! I'm going to stop santizing everything, re-use my specialty grains, bottle in dirty soda bottles, and cut my extract in half and substitute cane sugar for fermentables.
-walker

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Isn't how budweiser is made?

glibbidy said:

Isn't how budweiser is made?

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That's how it TASTES, but I am actually in awe of the precision with which AB and the other megaswill companies brew their products. Something that light in color and taste takes squeaky-clean and heavily-controlled care to produce. Any off taste at all would stick WAY out.

millions and millions of gallons of the stuff, and not a single noticable difference across batches.... amazing. Terrible beer, but amazing production process.

-walker

True. pardon the cliche.

anyone know of any no-rinse stuff in the uk
....it bugs the be-jesus out of me rinsing everything and then again cos im paranoid some is left in

dangermouse said:

anyone know of any no-rinse stuff in the uk
....it bugs the be-jesus out of me rinsing everything and then again cos im paranoid some is left in

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I would be shocked if Iodophor was not available in the UK. If I recall correctly, it is used pretty heavily on dairy farms for sanitizing equipment. Here in the states we have stores that cater to farmers and the like, and I believe you can find Iodophor at those places.

If you have similar "farm supply" stores, perhaps you could find it there.

-walker

Imperial Walker said:

one question:

isn't star-san the stuff that can create noxious fumes if it comes in contact with bleach? (Granted, if you have star-san, you probably won't be using bleach for anything, but....)

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You are quite correct. However, I'm thinking it's only a problem if they come into contact in their concentrated (straight from bottle) forms. For my carboys, I always perform a bleach soak, followed a rinse, then a soak in star-san. I'm sure I've had the two come in contact in trace amounts and haven't had any trouble. Just don't mix them on purpose

Kevin K said:

So what's the final word? Is star-san easier, or is iodaphor easier?

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Hmmmm, let me see. Idophor, great sanitizer, stains plastic, don't last very long as an effective sanitizer, reasonably cheap.
Star-san, great sanitizer, don't stain, lasts for months if placed in a sealed container, reasonably cheap.
Idophor...safe to use on SS.
Star-san..well the jury is still out on that one but IMO as a acid based sanitizer I refrain from using it on SS.
I vote Star-san.

boo boo said:

Hmmmm, let me see. Idophor, great sanitizer, stains plastic, don't last very long as an effective sanitizer, reasonably cheap.
Star-san, great sanitizer, don't stain, lasts for months if placed in a sealed container, reasonably cheap.
Idophor...safe to use on SS.
Star-san..well the jury is still out on that one but IMO as a acid based sanitizer I refrain from using it on SS.
I vote Star-san.

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what SS items are people sanitizing? kegs?

-walker

Yep, also I find it strange that someone would rinse off an item sanitized with a NO RINSE sanitizer. IMO of course.

boo boo said:

Yep, also I find it strange that someone would rinse off an item sanitized with a NO RINSE sanitizer. IMO of course.

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I used to do this. I had a VERY hard time convicing myself that it was OK to not rinse the gear, with my thinking being that a flush with clean water HAD to be better than leaving some chemical on the gear, regardless of how inert that chemical was.

I finally just gritted my teeth and did a batch with no rinsing any where in the process. It came out fine, saved time/hastle, and I have now relaxed about the whole thing and I don't rinse anymore.

-walker

Imperial Walker said:

I used to do this. I had a VERY hard time convicing myself that it was OK to not rinse the gear, with my thinking being that a flush with clean water HAD to be better than leaving some chemical on the gear, regardless of how inert that chemical was.

I finally just gritted my teeth and did a batch with no rinsing any where in the process. It came out fine, saved time/hastle, and I have now relaxed about the whole thing and I don't rinse anymore.

-walker

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That seems to be my main issue on deciding which one I'm going to use...

Guess I'll have a beer and get over it....

Ize

Yeah, me too. I still don't like the look of all that foam from Star-san but have come to realize that there isn't very much liquid in all that foam and it don't affect the taste.

Imperial Walker said:

That's how it TASTES, but I am actually in awe of the precision with which AB and the other megaswill companies brew their products. Something that light in color and taste takes squeaky-clean and heavily-controlled care to produce. Any off taste at all would stick WAY out.

millions and millions of gallons of the stuff, and not a single noticable difference across batches.... amazing. Terrible beer, but amazing production process.

-walker

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I've never thought of it that way. Any off flavors would stick out like a sore thumb. Also the slightest variance in hop utilization or malt profile would change the taste. They must have some monster laboratories! (Not like the one that Frankensteins monster was made in)

glibbidy said:

If it works for you, and it ain't broke don't fix it. This is just my subjective opinion on this matter.

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I'm not saying it works just for me, but works for hundreds if not thousands of homebrewers. Not really a subjective opinion, just a fact. Bleach is a perfectly adequate sanitizer when used at the proper concentration and rinsed well. I've never had a problem with it, but like many people, I do prefer Star-san just for ease of use though it is significantly more expensive than bleach.

wow 7 pages dedicated to the old bleach controversy. well - switch to starsan. yes it's more expensive initially - but think of the savings in time and no rinse

i've never ruined a batch due to bleach but i have rotted out a few t shirts and jeans with bleach spills.

i say if it's important enough to brew beer you like - then it should be important enough to use the right cleaner/sanatizer. use starsan!

glibbidy said:

Any bleach is too much. Again, I'll have to interject. Rinsing with hot water defeats the purpose of sanitizing with bleach, I mean whats the point in rinsing the bucket out with hot water? Sounds like a potential recipe for disaster.

IMHO Idophor & Star San are much more user friendly to your eauipment.

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You know.. this topic has seriously been beaten to death. BUT in the interest of answering harmless question that has been asked quite a bit around here the above post pretty much sums it up. Star san is cheap, effective, hassle free, does not impart off flavors at higher than suggested concentrations, does not stain, does not spoil, do I need to continue?

bleach: why bother?

Lost said:

You know.. this topic has seriously been beaten to death. BUT in the interest of answering harmless question that has been asked quite a bit around here the above post pretty much sums it up. Star san is cheap, effective, hassle free, does not impart off flavors at higher than suggested concentrations, does not stain, does not spoil, do I need to continue?

bleach: why bother?

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I've got a better idea. Do what ever helps you enjoy the hobby more. Who cares what anyone else thinks? If you are making good beer and you are enjoying the process you are right on track. Don't be afraid to try new things like Star San. If they work better the hobby will be more fun to you. If for any reason, like price or difficulty of use, it doesn't increase your enjoyment then do what works for you.

RichBrewer said:

I've never thought of it that way. Any off flavors would stick out like a sore thumb. Also the slightest variance in hop utilization or malt profile would change the taste. They must have some monster laboratories! (Not like the one that Frankensteins monster was made in)

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Tee hee. If they had, they could do the Monster Mash.

boooooooooooooo!

WTF....everywhere I read says you can use household bleach to sanitize everything you need to brew beer.

Now I read that you can't sanitize stainless steel with bleach. EFFFF. So how am I supposed to sanitize my brew pot?????????????

bigben said:

Now I read that you can't sanitize stainless steel with bleach. EFFFF. So how am I supposed to sanitize my brew pot?????????????

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you don't need to sanitize the brew pot (or ANYTHING related to cooking the wort). You are going to boil liquid in it, and that will sanitize it.

-walker

Isnt star-san just bleach thats been conditioned in oak barrels?

Bjorn Borg said:

Isnt star-san just bleach thats been conditioned in oak barrels?

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LOL--took me a minute

Imperial Walker said:

you don't need to sanitize the brew pot (or ANYTHING related to cooking the wort). You are going to boil liquid in it, and that will sanitize it.

-walker

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Thank you! I'll tell you what...I don't think I've ever been this nervous before. In about 2 hours I will be brewing my first batch.....wooo hooooooo.

Bjorn Borg said:

Isnt star-san just bleach thats been conditioned in oak barrels?

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ROTFL

easy ice man, i almost spit my beverage up all over my laptop

bigben said:

Thank you! I'll tell you what...I don't think I've ever been this nervous before. In about 2 hours I will be brewing my first batch.....wooo hooooooo.

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good luck. I'm sure all will go fine. Relax and have a beer.

When you are done tonight, you'll be convinced that you ruined the batch. You'll come here and post your concerns, and we will all tell you to relax and have a beer.

After 10 hours, you won't see bubbling in the airlock, and you'll think something is wrong. You'll come here and post your concerns, and we will all tell you to relax and have a beer.

Then, when you sample it at racking/bottling time, you will be convinced that it doesn't smell or taste right. You'll come here and post your concerns, and we will all tell you to relax and have a beer.

After it's bottled, you'll open one too soon and it won't be carbonated. You'll come here and post your concerns, and we will all tell you to relax and have a beer.

Finally, you'll wait long enough, open one, and swear by god that you are the best brewer on the planet. You'll come here and post your elation, and we will all tell you to relax and have a beer.

-walker

Walker -

Very cool summation of describing each stage of panic that the homebrew process incurrs on the inexperienced. I hope I speak for a few people when I say I have felt that anxiety for each stage you mentioned.

Thank you for writing it. I think you have about summed up about 70% of the "worried brewers" posts on this forum.

Cheers!

Haha, that's a great post. I will have to save it and just read the sections that apply to my current situation.

IW...
So much for any future posts!!! Nice summary....
You have pretty much said it all in that short post!
This newbe has (and sometimes still) feel everyone of those concerns. Thanks

Anybody thought of pasturizing the fill-up water right in the carboy? That should pretty much sterilize the bottle and the water at the same time. I'm just kinda hanging that one out there, see if anybody's got any thoughts on it. Gonna start my first brew in a week or two, depending on shipping, and I've been rolling that one around in my head for a while.

Alchemist said:

Anybody thought of pasturizing the fill-up water right in the carboy?

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how would you do this? carboys can't handle a lot of heat, so....

edit: let me clarify, you can't put a carboy on a heat source without risking the glass cracking. If you could gently and evenly heat it up to the point where the water in it boiled, you might be able to pull it off, but I don't see any practical way of doing this.

Or.. are you talking about some method other than heat to do this?

-walker

... Well, not so much pasturizing, but boiling the fill-up water in a sealed carboy.