Clone Beer Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone

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i experienced low, but very thick, krausen. certainly no need for a blow-off tube.

It's in my basement right now, which is measuring around 66 degrees.
that's the air temperature, unfortunately air isn't very efficient at transferring heat. so when the carboy heats up because of all the yeast activity, little heat will be carried away through the air. this results in the carboy heating up. water is a much better conductor of heat. put the carboy sit in a tub of water to which you can add ice, ice packs, frozen water bottles, etc (AKA a "swamp cooler").
 
(AKA a "swamp cooler").

I thought I only needed something like that if I was brewing a lager. Should I be worried about a stout getting above, say, 70 degrees? I apologize for all the newbie questions. Feel free to let me know I am an idiot for trying to brew this beer!
 
I thought I only needed something like that if I was brewing a lager. Should I be worried about a stout getting above, say, 70 degrees? I apologize for all the newbie questions. Feel free to let me know I am an idiot for trying to brew this beer!

I thought the same thing when I started brewing. After reading through the forum, the consensus is, if you are going to get above ~70 room temp, that would mean your fermentation is at about 75-80. That's too high for a stout. It would be okay for a saison, maybe some other Belgian styles, but I'd definitely run a swamp cooler setup for the first 4-7 days for a stout. Try to keep it cool.
 
Room temp won't go above 66 since it is in the basement, which is very stable. And it's starting to get cooler outside at night, so it may go down a degree or two (no way the heat is coming on in the house yet, despite my wife's wishes :)

Still I suppose the swamp cooler might not be a bad idea?
 
Room temp won't go above 66 since it is in the basement, which is very stable. And it's starting to get cooler outside at night, so it may go down a degree or two (no way the heat is coming on in the house yet, despite my wife's wishes :)

Still I suppose the swamp cooler might not be a bad idea?

I would. Why risk an expensive batch for a $4 rope tub and some ice?
 
Hello to all that have brewed this recipe: I am curious what FG you are getting. The OP said 1.023. That's a bit syrupy for my taste. Has anyone cut back on the 2-row and substituted some invert sugar to get the beer to finish a bit lower? I am looking forward to brewing this beer. I had a chance to taste the Founder's KBS! That was a treat!

Cheers!
 
Hello to all that have brewed this recipe: I am curious what FG you are getting. The OP said 1.023. That's a bit syrupy for my taste. Has anyone cut back on the 2-row and substituted some invert sugar to get the beer to finish a bit lower? I am looking forward to brewing this beer. I had a chance to taste the Founder's KBS! That was a treat!

Cheers!

I'm guessing KBS finishes higher than 1.023. 1.023 is just fine for this brew. Give it a try, I don't think you'll be disappointed. Have you had the Breakfast Stout?
 
Thanks Jordan, I plan to brew this soon. I have not had the Breakfast Stout. Neither of these beers are out here on the west coast from what I have seen. I just had a chance to taste the KBS when a friend of mine from the Midwest brought some out.
 
Room temp won't go above 66 since it is in the basement, which is very stable.
as mentioned above, it's the *air* in your basement that is 66*F. what we're concerned about is the temperature of the beer and making sure that it stays at approx 66* - and air isn't very good at ensuring this. the yeast activity will generate more heat than air can take away = beer heats up.

water in contact with the outside of the bucket or carboy will be much more effective at removing excess heat. so yes, i would recommend a tub of cooled water.

ideally you should also have some way of monitoring the temperature of the beer. the fancy way is to have some sort of a thermometer or temp probe in your beer. a much cheaper approach is to use a LCD thermo-strip stuck to the outside of your bucket or carboy (sometimes referred to as aquarium thermometers or fermometers). make sure that the LCD strip is above the level of the water, but below the level of the beer:

thermostrip-placement.png
 
Hello to all that have brewed this recipe: I am curious what FG you are getting. The OP said 1.023. That's a bit syrupy for my taste. Has anyone cut back on the 2-row and substituted some invert sugar to get the beer to finish a bit lower? I am looking forward to brewing this beer. I had a chance to taste the Founder's KBS! That was a treat!

didn't you notice that KBS is fairly syrupy? and with all that dark malt, coffee, etc you'll want some residual sugar. dry it out too much and i suspect that the brew would be quite bitter/astringent/etc.
 
as mentioned above, it's the *air* in your basement that is 66*F. what we're concerned about is the temperature of the beer and making sure that it stays at approx 66* - and air isn't very good at ensuring this. the yeast activity will generate more heat than air can take away = beer heats up.

water in contact with the outside of the bucket or carboy will be much more effective at removing excess heat. so yes, i would recommend a tub of cooled water.

ideally you should also have some way of monitoring the temperature of the beer. the fancy way is to have some sort of a thermometer or temp probe in your beer. a much cheaper approach is to use a LCD thermo-strip stuck to the outside of your bucket or carboy (sometimes referred to as aquarium thermometers for fermometers). make sure that the LCD strip is above the level of the water, but below the level of the beer:

This is an AWESOME explanation, thank you sweetcell. I was going to chime in, but you covered it well!

A lot of folks think that the room temp is the temp of their beer during fermentation....NO SO. Fermenting above 70F is going to give you fusel (hot) alcohols and a lot of esters, depending on the yeast strain.

Cheers,
~Adam
 
This is an AWESOME explanation, thank you sweetcell.

Completely agree. Put my fermentor in a swamp cooler last night - hopefully it helps. The krausen is pretty low on it right now, though the airlock sounded like a machine gun last night when I got home from work. This morning it had slowed a little - I think I'll keep the bucket in the cooler until at least sunday though, just to be sure.

I might start looking for a cheap chest freezer on craigslist. I bought one a few years ago that I have since gotten rid of. I turned it into a kegerator - might have to do something similar to keep the brews cold during fermentation.

Thanks again for the advice!
 
glad i could help :mug:

ideally, you want to keep the temps stable and consistent. yeast tend to complain when they're cooled too much, it can cause them to go to sleep and settle out (this is what happens when you cold crash). so try to avoid temp spikes that require cooling of several degrees.

i don't have a fancy automated setup. i simply look at the temp indicated by my stick-on thermometers and add ice (quick cooling) and ice packs (slower, long-term cooling) as needed. took me a few batches to figure out, but i've gotten pretty good at it. trick is to check up on your fermentor as often as you can... and who doesn't need an extra excuse to go spend a little time with their beer?!?

happiness is a bubbling airlock :ban:
 
I might start looking for a cheap chest freezer on craigslist.

I have a 1950's Norge chest freezer I picked up for $50 years ago from CL. It weighs something like 450 pounds empty, all steel, but it still works like a champ!

Cheers,
~Adam
 
Checked my gravity today after 9 days in primary and it was 1.012. Sg of 1.079. Pitched 2 11g packs of unrehydrated s04. Held steady at 68 degrees. Any idea why so low? I expected to finish 1.020 or so since it was extract. Puts it at around 8.8%. Tasted ok, but pretty bitter. Maybe it's the coffee and chocolate.

My grain steep got to 180 degrees for about 5 minutes (putting kids to bed) so I hope that wasn't the culprit.
 
Distributer near me had Founders Breakfast Stout available. I immediately snatched a couple of 4-packs. I wanted to make a side by side comparison as I am down to my last 4 bottles from last years batch. The recipe posted is spot on. The only differences I noted was that Founders was a touch fresher. The coffee stood out a touch more, the body was fuller from the oats. I attribute this to freshness as my clone was a year old. But I do recall after only a few months old, this was pretty much exact to the commercial version
 
Brewed this yesterday and my OG is 1.092. 2 oz. Of ground coffee in boil should be interesting. There was a lot of 15 minute additions. And I almost forgot cacco nibs. Looking forward to end results.
 
I know that there is a huge debate whether to use a secondary or not, but I was wondering if anyone has made this recipe with just a primary. Also if only a primary was used, how long did you leave the brew in there? I wasn't sure if a secondary was needed because of all the chocolate and coffee left at the bottom of the primary.

I always have used secondary's in the past, but I'm just trying to save a step.
 
I know that there is a huge debate whether to use a secondary or not, but I was wondering if anyone has made this recipe with just a primary. Also if only a primary was used, how long did you leave the brew in there? I wasn't sure if a secondary was needed because of all the chocolate and coffee left at the bottom of the primary.

I always have used secondary's in the past, but I'm just trying to save a step.

I think it's needed with this beer. SO MUCH CRAP in the primary.

I racked good and still had a ton of stuff fall out in secondary, especially if you used powder chocolate.
 
I always use secondary myself, for clarity in lighter colored beer and to help clear out some of the thicker stuff in brew with so many adjuncts. I think I read somewhere it's recommended with higher gravity beer like this also.
 
Pitched 2 11g packs of unrehydrated s04. Held steady at 68 degrees. Any idea why so low?

68F is not low...especially if you are not using a cooling method like a waterbath. In my opinion, if you pitch enough yeast, you should only use 68F as a diaceytl rest temperature at end of fermentation. Low-mid 60's are your friend for most ale yeasts.

I know that there is a huge debate whether to use a secondary or not, but I was wondering if anyone has made this recipe with just a primary. Also if only a primary was used, how long did you leave the brew in there? I wasn't sure if a secondary was needed because of all the chocolate and coffee left at the bottom of the primary.

I always have used secondary's in the past, but I'm just trying to save a step.

I don't generally do a secondary, as I feel this is one more chance to mess the beer up with infection or oxidation. I treat the keg as my secondary, as it's easy to blow-off anything that settles out.

When I made my version of this beer, I let it sit in primary for 4 weeks just to make sure the yeast has had time to clean things up.

Cheers,
~Adam
 
I started this brew 10/12/2012 and had an OG of 1.079 @ 80F and when I checked it 10/18/2012 the SG was 1.018 @ 75F. I tasted a sample and the coffee was STRONG. My question is, does the coffee mellow out after time? I haven't added the 2oz of Kona yet. Any thoughts? I enjoy Founder's Breakfast Stout but this tastes like too much coffee to me.
 
Coffee will mellow out over time. Mines just becoming drinkable, and it's around the 4 month mark I think?
 
Just transferred over to secondary after 2 weeks in primary. SG is 1.020 (I brewed the extract version, which is where that recipe came in) so It's just over 7%, which is fine for me. I'd love it to be around 8%, but I knew going in that wasn't really a reality.

Those of you who added a few whole beans soaked in rum to the secondary, did you have success with this? I know most people have done the 2oz cold-brewed at bottling, but I saw a few people had done the whole bean. Just curious how that worked out.
 
I brewed this up this morning....used Galena and nugget for my hops since that is what I had on hand....additions equaled out to 60IBU...OG 1.085 which is the range I was shooting for...

Hydrometer sample was good

Question about aroma? Strange enough I didn't get much...I was expecting a lot of chocolate on the nose but didn't get that...aroma was pretty neutral...thoughts ????
 
I brewed this up this morning....used Galena and nugget for my hops since that is what I had on hand....additions equaled out to 60IBU...OG 1.085 which is the range I was shooting for...

Hydrometer sample was good

Question about aroma? Strange enough I didn't get much...I was expecting a lot of chocolate on the nose but didn't get that...aroma was pretty neutral...thoughts ????

If you added the coffee, you should have a pretty distinct coffee and chocolate aroma.
 
My founders clone has been in the secondary for one week and I can't tell if this is an infection or something else. Anyone else see this on top of their secondary?

image-1048403654.jpg


image-1775540109.jpg
 
zeprock2 said:
My founders clone has been in the secondary for one week and I can't tell if this is an infection or something else. Anyone else see this on top of their secondary?

You'll get some visuals in secondary just like primary, there's a lot of crap in there. Could be minor yeast activity also.
 
Looks normal. Mine was ugly until I kegged it. It's probably still ugly. The beer just plain needs to sit.. Anyone brewing this need not be in a hurry. Especially if you used the full amount of coffee and added to the boil.
 
Looks like it could be fat coagulated at the top...it floats (along with yeast). Kind-of like when you make a pot of chili, then put it in the fridge and look at it the next day.
 
Questions to those who have brewed this. I did the extract version. Started at 1.079 and finished at 1.011 using s04.

1) was in primary for 2 weeks and now 2 weeks in secondary. The beer smells overly sweet. I thought it would have more of a chocolate or coffee aroma. The sweetness seems odd. Anyone else have this.

2) the beer looks murky. Doesn't look infected but still some co2 bubbles and the glass carboy looks hazy towards the top. Not like a film but strangely hazy.

3) going to add the bourbon soaked oak chips on Friday. Will 1 week suffice?

4) I cold pressed the coffee (or at least tried to) and only got 4oz of liquid after soaking 2oz of coffee. Will that impart enough flavor or is that too little.

5). Seems like many bottle condition this for months but was hoping to drink by Xmas. Is 6 weeks in the bottle a decent time for this after total of 5 weeks fermenting ( 2 primary; 3 secondary)

Any info would be greatly appreciated.
 
1. Alcohols can have a sweet aroma. Taste the beer.
2. Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew.
3. There is no magic rule on oak chips, only taste will tell you. I personally use oak cubes and get good flavor at 3 weeks. Chips work faster, so 1 week will give you some character, but it's best to taste to your liking.
4. The cold-press extract is potent.
5. Only time will tell, based on how your fermentation went, the types of alcohols, esters, etc. 6 weeks will certainly have carbonation, but likely it will be young based on your alcohol potential. Your beer fermented quite dry, which means more alcohol and could require more mellowing. Only taste will tell. :)

Cheers,
~Adam
 
I personally don't see this beer being done by Christmas, but you could rush it along and see what you think.
 
sorry if this has been answered earlier in the thread.
I've read about about 12 pages & can't read anymore! How long does this need to age in the fermentor? I don't know if i can wait over 2 months!

Thanks for the help.
 
sorry if this has been answered earlier in the thread.
I've read about about 12 pages & can't read anymore! How long does this need to age in the fermentor? I don't know if i can wait over 2 months!

Thanks for the help.

I did 5 weeks, per DD's process. 3 weeks in the bottle as of this previous Sunday for me, and I'm cracking the first one tomorrow night. Probably too early for the flavors to be mellowed out, but it should be carb'd!
 
sorry if this has been answered earlier in the thread.
I've read about about 12 pages & can't read anymore! How long does this need to age in the fermentor? I don't know if i can wait over 2 months!

Thanks for the help.
if you follow the original recipe, it likely won't reach it full potential until it's 6 months old. imperial stouts like this one are like barleywines or big belgians - you brew them then you need to forget them for half a year (hence the importance of having a pipeline). the fact that it is so complex has so many things going on (coffee, chocolate, etc) further extends the amount of time needed for flavors to develop. you could start drinking at 2 months but don't be surprised if it tastes hot & alcoholic. it sorta defeats the purpose of making a big beer. if you need to drink something big in short order, consider an IIPA/DIPA.

alternately, you could try dialing down this recipe from it's projected 8+% ABV to something lower, like say 6%, by ramping down the malts & hops... but you're taking a risk there, since the recipe is balanced at its current levels. taking everything down by 25% will yield something close but the balance might be off but a 6% beer will be ready faster than an 8.5%.

but in a nutshell, if you want to drink something in 2 months you might want to consider a different recipe.
 
Have you brewed this? The chocolate oils should kill any krausen that decides to creep. I would highly doubt that you would need a blowoff. I used S-04 (two packets) which, in my experience, is far more vigorous than S-05, and had the tiniest krausen I've ever seen. Might have been an inch.

For anyone brewing this, you can also expect to have a "weird" krausen. Like JordanTHomas said above, there isn't a large krausen, but mine did have large bubbles that had me worried about an infection. Taste test and sniff test shows that everything is normal. I think the chocolate makes the krausen very thick and my krausen is less frothy and had more large bubbles.
 
if you follow the original recipe, it likely won't reach it full potential until it's 6 months old. imperial stouts like this one are like barleywines or big belgians - you brew them then you need to forget them for half a year (hence the importance of having a pipeline). the fact that it is so complex has so many things going on (coffee, chocolate, etc) further extends the amount of time needed for flavors to develop. you could start drinking at 2 months but don't be surprised if it tastes hot & alcoholic. it sorta defeats the purpose of making a big beer. if you need to drink something big in short order, consider an IIPA/DIPA.

alternately, you could try dialing down this recipe from it's projected 8+% ABV to something lower, like say 6%, by ramping down the malts & hops... but you're taking a risk there, since the recipe is balanced at its current levels. taking everything down by 25% will yield something close but the balance might be off but a 6% beer will be ready faster than an 8.5%.

but in a nutshell, if you want to drink something in 2 months you might want to consider a different recipe.

Would it be acceptable to ferment this for 2 months & then rack it to a keg for 3-4 months stored at room temp? (75F)
 
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