Mill concept

I got a tiny bit of spare cash and I wanted to get a mill. Over here a corona style will set you back $100+ so I thought I would look into getting a roller mill fabricated by a workshop I know through work. Now I want to make it a simple as possible and have come up with this concept.

The end blocks will be drilled through for the threaded rod and held in place by the nuts (gap setting by them aswell). Will get a 1 or 2 mm sheet metal base made to give it a bit more stability and this will overhang the mill a bit to also allow it to be bolted down to a board.
Any ideas, comments, questions or suggestions?

It looks like a nifty design, except that the mill will be shooting grain out through the gaps between the end plates. You really need those to be solid, since the grain likes to spread across the top of the gap. You could get some thin gauge Al and slot it, then put it between the plates and the rollers to fill up that gap.

Oh, also I wouldn't use depleted uranium for the bushings. I'm pretty sure that not safe (DU, get it?).

mattd2 said:

I got a tiny bit of spare cash and I wanted to get a mill. Over here a corona style will set you back $100+ so I thought I would look into getting a roller mill fabricated by a workshop I know through work. Now I want to make it a simple as possible and have come up with this concept.

The end blocks will be drilled through for the threaded rod and held in place by the nuts (gap setting by them aswell). Will get a 1 or 2 mm sheet metal base made to give it a bit more stability and this will overhang the mill a bit to also allow it to be bolted down to a board.
Any ideas, comments, questions or suggestions?

Click to expand...

Why not buy a Monster Mill?
http://www.monsterbrewinghardware.com/mm-2.html
It works great, and I am extremely pleased with it.

Unless you know this workshop very well and they will cut you a huge deal, you won't be able to have one fabricated for the price of the MM-2

trigger said:

Oh, also I wouldn't use depleted uranium for the bushings. I'm pretty sure that not safe (DU, get it?).

Click to expand...

Going by your dog in your avatar i guess you know the dangers of messing with that stuff Good call on the side plates.

dmfa200 said:

Why not buy a Monster Mill?
http://www.monsterbrewinghardware.com/mm-2.html
It works great, and I am extremely pleased with it.

Unless you know this workshop very well and they will cut you a huge deal, you won't be able to have one fabricated for the price of the MM-2

Click to expand...

There is a good chance I could get one fabricated for at least the same price of buying a monster mill, or simular, and shipping it half way round the world. Will keep this update.

Another question. Most mills I have seen being sold have a 12 tpi knurl on the rollers. I have also read somewhere on here that the knurl is not needed for rollers above 2". Does anyone have any info on what/when it is needed to have knurled rollers?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-grain-mill-230293/ Please take a look at the design of my grain mill. It is powered by a small drill.

brieuxster said:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-grain-mill-230293/ Please take a look at the design of my grain mill. It is powered by a small drill.

Click to expand...

Looks nice. Brings up another question I need answers to, how long to make the rollers, with yours at 3" long does the grain spread out to touch the end plates?

Also found this post by Bobby in regards to the requirements for knurling the rollers, might do without and see if it is a problem or not first.

Bobby_M said:

The larger the roller, the less steep the entry angle is so the roller grips the grain more gradually. It doesn't need the knurl bite. 2" works just fine though.

Click to expand...

I would venture to say that even at two inches, when you are milling hard grains like wheat or even the darker roasted barley, like black patent, a smooth roller will have trouble pulling the grain through.

Can't remember where, but I believe I read that pro brewers have large diameter rollers without knurl. With a large diameter the approach angle is more gradual and will pull the grain through. It is also better because the malt is just crushed. With the knurl the malt get somewhat shredded.

The grain is not spreading out, yet. The funnel needs to be modified, cut back,to get my mill running at its full capacity. The gap should be around 40 thousandth of a inch, set it using two pieces of steel banding stacked together. Let me know if you want more details.

have you checked out the pasta roller mill thread. I have around $25.00 in mine and also my rollers are knurled its working great for the money.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/using-pasta-maker-mill-grain-75784/

tch1980 said:

have you checked out the pasta roller mill thread. I have around $25.00 in mine and also my rollers are knurled its working great for the money.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/using-pasta-maker-mill-grain-75784/

Click to expand...

Yeah those pasta mills also run around the $100 mark, very occasionally on special for $50.

I talked to the fabricator today, he said he'll do it for a couple of boxes of beer!
He has also made some recommendations, he advised against using aluminium close to SS as it tends to "corrode" due to galvanic potentials (probably messed that wording up some ) He has suggested some type of hard plastic (forgot the name but will post once I talk with him again) and again graphite impregnated "some type of hard plastic" bushes that are cheap, durable and easily replaceable.
I will probably not do the SS base plate and just make one out of MDF that will fit onto a 20 litre bucket, the spacers for the sides will be either plastic or MDF.
And also will not be knurling the rollers (will review this after it is in operation though).
Hopefully this will be coming together very soon and I can post pics!

save yourself the headache and get a barley crusher

Native302 said:

save yourself the headache and get a barley crusher

Click to expand...

Why do so many people not understand that for those guys living on the other side of the planet, shipping a heavy steel item that far costs more than the item itself, then add import duties, etc?

Actually you have the BEST mill I have ever seen in your part of the world. I would totally get this!
http://mashmaster.com.au/p/563201/millmaster-stainless-steel-grain-mill-.html

Native302 said:

save yourself the headache and get a barley crusher

Click to expand...

Seariously? So I should pay crap loads of money to get a product that will perform probably just as good?

camiller said:

Why do so many people not understand that for those guys living on the other side of the planet, shipping a heavy steel item that far costs more than the item itself, then add import duties, etc?

Click to expand...

I'm glad that there are some that do understand, unfortunatly the ones that don't understand are also likely to be the ones that make unhelpful and uninformed comments on forums answering questions that were not even asked

onthekeg said:

Actually you have the BEST mill I have ever seen in your part of the world. I would totally get this!
http://mashmaster.com.au/p/563201/millmaster-stainless-steel-grain-mill-.html

Click to expand...

It maybe the best but have you seen the price tag :cross:

Why is "I am getting this for a couple of boxes of beer" not getting a holy crap response? I know I was stoked!

mattd2 said:

Seariously? So I should pay crap loads of money to get a product that will perform probably just as good?

I'm glad that there are some that do understand, unfortunatly the ones that don't understand are also likely to be the ones that make unhelpful and uninformed comments on forums answering questions that were not even asked


It maybe the best but have you seen the price tag :cross:

Why is "I am getting this for a couple of boxes of beer" not getting a holy crap response? I know I was stoked!

Click to expand...

holy crap! wish i knew some handy folks with fancy equiptment that would work for beer. nice score.

FromZwolle said:

holy crap! wish i knew some handy folks with fancy equiptment that would work for beer. nice score.

Click to expand...

Thank you. Yeah they are a good bunch of guys, I work with them everyday on a chemical site (I issue their permits to work) so I know their quality as well. Back purge all their SS welds and passivate with HFA. Will hopefully get them to do some couplings on my keggle while they are at it.

FromZwolle said:

holy crap! wish i knew some handy folks with fancy equiptment that would work for beer. nice score.

Click to expand...

Yeah for real. I just paid the $130 shipped for a 15lb barley crusher. So, so sorry if I've offended any body's ideas

mattd2 said:

Yeah those pasta mills also run around the $100 mark, very occasionally on special for $50.

Click to expand...

i got mine with a 50% off coupon for $12. It works great, but for $100, there's no way i'd bother with it.

mattd2,
just to give you an idea of a quality built mill; http://www.crankandstein.net/index.php?main_page=products_all
Note the gap adjusters are locked into detents vs relying on a screw with friction contact from slipping while milling.
Bottom of the page they have just rollers available also.

BrewBeemer said:

mattd2,
just to give you an idea of a quality built mill; http://www.crankandstein.net/index.php?main_page=products_all
Note the gap adjusters are locked into detents vs relying on a screw with friction contact from slipping while milling.
Bottom of the page they have just rollers available also.

Click to expand...

Can't see really from their pictures how the "locking" works on the bearings. My design the gap is set by the threaded rod and nuts setting the location of each end block, might take a bit more to set up but it is easier to fabricate than the eccentrics and shouldn't slip like the screwed down eccentric.

Looks like those prices for rollers at the bottom are for if you want to upgrade from steel to SS! Getting mine in stainless anyway.

The radiused undercut on the eccentrics where the radiused locking bolt end with a ball bearing contacts have drilled detent pockets all around that the locking bolt engages into for positive lock settings, not like the other same looking but different brand mill requiring the "use pliers to tighten the thumb screws down" per manufactures instructions to "prevent slipping out of adjustment". This tells me a bad design from the start vs detents used above.

just an idea on rollers unless you have a connection to machine your set.
I have steel knurling I had case hardened. No rust problem either when cleaned, protection coated before storage.
With your rod adjustment system might as well use sealed ball bearings vs bushings due to the larger end plate area your working with.
I would add a thick aluminum top and bottom plate to stablize the end plates, roller end clearances plus bearing alignment. Your on 50 Hz 230 VAC correct?
Don't go cheap on HP, 1/3 to 1/2 HP for the mill plus keep the rpm's rather low for minimal flour with a good crush.

mattd2 said:

Can't see really from their pictures how the "locking" works on the bearings.

Click to expand...

Mr. BrewBeemer might be talking about a similar set-up, like my mill.
I don't have any of those brand name mills, mine is a VW





Cheers,
ClaudiusB

ClaudiusB said:

Mr. BrewBeemer might be talking about a similar set-up, like my mill.
I don't have any of those brand name mills, mine is a VW

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

Click to expand...

Drop the Mr., BB or hey you is good enough.
I must add Claudius, that is the best improvement to be had over what has been offered by the mills sold in high production.

The radiused groove that the radiused thumb screw contacts, steel on steel would slip until I added a short copper slug that bites the adjuster pocket locking it down better.
The best solution is to add detents with a spring ball like you installed. I must copy your idea.

Claudius, how many degrees of rotation between the drilled pockets on your adjusters?
Granted you eccentric difference from minimum to maximum gap must be different than what Monster Mill has built into his eccentrics.
What is the feeler gage differences between detents?

The mill should be fabricated next week!
That is all for now...

I'm rootin' for ya! DIY'ers kick butt (all home-brewers are DIY'ers in a sense!).

Of course, I say this being on the verge of buying a Barley Crusher...

Keep us posted!

definitely make your own, i made mine a couple of months ago, i used 3 4inch by 10inch rollers and a motor and pulley wheels i rescued from an old concrete mixer, i used it for the first time last week and i had just short of 7 kilos of grain and it crushed it in 29 seconds! and i did it for cheaper than i can buy any commercial mill (with shipping)!

Quick update. Photos of the mill are attached.
Question: How easy are the "factory" mills to turn? this one is a little stiff to turn by hand but spins well with a drill.

Wish I could answer your question; my mill hasn't arrive yet - but I did want to pipe in: "cool!"

Do you get significant amounts of grain falling out the sides?

mattd2 said:

Quick update. Photos of the mill are attached.
Question: How easy are the "factory" mills to turn? this one is a little stiff to turn by hand but spins well with a drill.

Click to expand...

Two things:
The plastic looks like Delrin, which is a great choice. It's even used in class 100 clean rooms because it doesn't have any shredding / particles when things are moved around on it.

For the locking on the threaded screw, I may add 2 nuts, instead of 1 if you have room.

Great score for a few beers!

I'm going to suggest the opposite of "The Dog 42" and suggest you eliminate the inside nuts altogether and replace them with springs. That way you only have to adjust the outside nuts to adjust the gap. Oh, and reuse the inside nuts as lock nuts on the outside.

Id guess its hard to turn because it is going to be difficult to keep the paltes parallel/ bearings in alignment. They'll loosen up with time nd use.

Even if it isnt better or cheaper, sometimes it most satisfying to bujild it yourself

Thanks for the replies, and I'll try answer your questions

Chuginator said:

Wish I could answer your question; my mill hasn't arrive yet - but I did want to pipe in: "cool!"

Do you get significant amounts of grain falling out the sides?

Click to expand...

I haven't tried it with grain yet, I will have to go pick some up when I stop working crazy hours and get back to you (unless the is comething around the house I can try it with?

The_Dog_42 said:

Two things:
The plastic looks like Delrin, which is a great choice. It's even used in class 100 clean rooms because it doesn't have any shredding / particles when things are moved around on it.

For the locking on the threaded screw, I may add 2 nuts, instead of 1 if you have room.

Great score for a few beers!

Click to expand...

camiller said:

I'm going to suggest the opposite of "The Dog 42" and suggest you eliminate the inside nuts altogether and replace them with springs. That way you only have to adjust the outside nuts to adjust the gap. Oh, and reuse the inside nuts as lock nuts on the outside.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion guys, I had thought of using a spring to space out the rollers (the grain should do this too was my thoughts) but my original concept mad it too hard to do, but this one it is pretty easy, this would make setting the gap easier and locking it in place with the lock nuts.

sv_1 said:

Id guess its hard to turn because it is going to be difficult to keep the paltes parallel/ bearings in alignment. They'll loosen up with time nd use.

Even if it isnt better or cheaper, sometimes it most satisfying to bujild it yourself

Click to expand...

That was my thoughts too as it has a bit of movement, I was thinking of using some angle iron across the front and back to shore things up and get everything inline, this would also make it easier to mount to a baseboard.

Again cheers for all the comments and I'll update you on the progress

mattd2 said:

Thanks for the replies, and I'll try answer your questions

I haven't tried it with grain yet, I will have to go pick some up when I stop working crazy hours and get back to you (unless the is comething around the house I can try it with?

Click to expand...

rice. that should clean the rollers off too.

FromZwolle said:

rice. that should clean the rollers off too.

Click to expand...

Tried rice but it wasn't going so good... then I check my gap yesterday and it was at about 0.025, so it seems like I should open it up to about 0.045 and try again

mattd2 said:

I got a tiny bit of spare cash and I wanted to get a mill. Over here a corona style will set you back $100+ <snip>.
Any ideas, comments, questions or suggestions?

Click to expand...

How does the Corona mill I bought in the States for $17 plus shipping end up at $100 (I assume that's $NZ, but even so) where you are? Is trans-Pacific shipping that high?

rico567 said:

Is trans-Pacific shipping that high?

Click to expand...

In a word, yes.

Just checked fedex, international economy rate for a 10 pound package: $217.26.

https://www.fedex.com/ratefinder/standalone

Yes, there are obviously cheaper rates if you are a frequent shipper and have an account with fedEx but overseas shipping is expensive.

Edit: that $217 is to Christchurch central from a fedex location in Omaha

Edit2: USPS Priority Mail International - Large Box (maximum 20 pounds) $58.50. But don't forget import duties etc.

rico567 said:

How does the Corona mill I bought in the States for $17 plus shipping end up at $100 (I assume that's $NZ, but even so) where you are? Is trans-Pacific shipping that high?

Click to expand...

camiller said:

In a word, yes.

Just checked fedex, international economy rate for a 10 pound package: $217.26.

https://www.fedex.com/ratefinder/standalone

Yes, there are obviously cheaper rates if you are a frequent shipper and have an account with fedEx but overseas shipping is expensive.

Edit: that $217 is to Christchurch central from a fedex location in Omaha

Edit2: USPS Priority Mail International - Large Box (maximum 20 pounds) $58.50. But don't forget import duties etc.

Click to expand...

Yep, and then someone has to make some money on it to be worth bringing them in