Garage home brewery

slimer said:

It is ground moisture. I had that same problem coming through the cracks in my basement floor before I installed a second sump well.

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ONLY one fix for that. NEW SLAB with a proper vapor barrier. Too bad so much other work has been completed. gonna be a real shame to have to do most of it over again.

Good luck.

Well, I'm impressed. It all looks fantastic and I hope you can find a to fix the floor, maybe a sump pump with French drain to reduce the water level under the area?

That sucks. You might be able to put a sump in, that might reduce the moisture coming up, but if your groundwater is close to the surface it won't be worth it...the pump will be running all of the time. The only time I've experienced that is when water would come into our basement...not just moisture, actual water. After it would drive we'd have white crystals or powder on the floor.

It's been an especially wet summer, have you had significant rains that may be causing the groundwater to rise and effectively TRYING to come up through your floor?

So not really sure if its water/heat/chemicals that caused the problem. The entire garage was sealed up over the weekend where it was both hot and then rained..... Regardless... I have to do something and I dont think the epoxy is going to cut it. I think we are going to move forward and on to the ceiling. I was going to wait for the floor to be hardened before I went to put a ladder all over it to put up the insulation but we need to make some sort of progress this week so it looks like insulation it is.

So I am looking at our options for the floor....

Tear up the $200 worth of epoxy and......

- pour more concrete?

- vapor barrier?

- Put in a raised floor made of wood with insulation inbetween?

Anyone care to chime in with there ideas? Lets assume its a water problem (worse case) .... What should we do, how do we do it, why will it work the best...

*pulls hair out more*

1. Was the paint you used the concrete waterproofing/sealant type? If not, maybe try using that stuff...I've heard it works very well.

2. You could build a subfloor, at least in the area around your brew rig. Finish it with tile and have it pitch to a drain in the subfloor. That way you could clean up the area and possible spills easily...it would be easy to clean and wouldn't have the potential to absorb liquid.

Otherwise, wait it out and see how the floor holds up. Are you in a low area? Any streams or open water from rain nearby that would give you an indication of groundwater depth? From my experience, concrete breathes naturally but this doesn't result in crystal/mineral deposition, more likely from actual water coming in...I could be wrong though, just ask my wife.

the way to test if its moisture is to remove a small area of the epoxy first.then take a piece of clear plastic can be Saran wrap and tape all around the edge to the floor and just let it sit a couple of days. If you have condensation and the cement turns dark then you have moisture.

depending on ceiling height I would put down a vapor barrier frame the floor out with PT wood and insulate with blue board then lay a floor. I did this in my basement 5 years ago and its dry as a bone.

illin8 said:

2. You could build a subfloor, at least in the area around your brew rig. Finish it with tile and have it pitch to a drain in the subfloor. That way you could clean up the area and possible spills easily...it would be easy to clean and wouldn't have the potential to absorb liquid.

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I think this is a great idea. Turn your lemons into lemonade buy putting in a subfloor with insulation and piping for drains. A lot of breweries use floor drains because ALL breweries have spills. Then tile it or possibly epoxy over the subfloor if that's possible (never used epoxy).

mnm129 said:

I think this is a great idea. Turn your lemons into lemonade buy putting in a subfloor with insulation and piping for drains. A lot of breweries use floor drains because ALL breweries have spills. Then tile it or possibly epoxy over the subfloor if that's possible (never used epoxy).

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I second the raised floor. Easy enough run drainage pipes. Can you just bust a large hole in the slab and run lines to for a drain? I'm no construction expert thats for sure!

Could you just put a vapor barrier down and then put a thin layer of concrete over top, perhaps that leveling stuff? Seems like that would be just as good as a vapor barrier+wood but you'd have the durability benefits of concrete.

Disclaimer: I have no idea if this is the stupidest idea ever.

ajwillys said:

Could you just put a vapor barrier down and then put a thin layer of concrete over top, perhaps that leveling stuff? Seems like that would be just as good as a vapor barrier+wood but you'd have the durability benefits of concrete.

Disclaimer: I have no idea if this is the stupidest idea ever.

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This would be a HUGE waste of money and time. eventually the "Thin layer of concrete on top would chip away and you would have a HUGE mess.

You have to either remove the moisture or make damned sure it does not pass through. once it does like this your screwed.

The Ultimate fix:
1. rent a concrete saw an is remove the existing slab up to the foundation walls and footers
2. Excavate the soil under it down about 10 inches.
2a. while there, install floor drains
3. lay a thick bed of good gravel and stone, 4 - 6" thick and compact it
4. then good thick a vapor barrier,
5. re-pour the concrete with a good re-bar and at least 4" thick. The you can wait till it cures a while and seal it, stain it or epoxy it.

Oh don't forget to pull permits.....

Baring that, I would go the raised floor on top of a GOOD vapor barrier and a wood floor. knowing that you will always have a moisture issue under the wood that will eventually soak it up and cause other issues.

This really sucks. I would like to say I would have investigated the slab better, but who would think to do that. Maybe this is a GOOD lesson. especially for slabs and garages we move into and don't build ourselves. You never know what you have if you didn't build it yourself.

Why wouldn't a few coats of DryLok work??

http://www.ugl.com/drylokMasonry/masonryWaterproofer/latex.php

I had a couple of bearly damp spots once in a blue moon down in my basement before I built my bar. A couple of gallons of that stuff and I haven't had even a whiff of dampness (and i have access the spots and have checked)

You could always do this dricore I have seen this at Home Depot . You do have to use cement board over it to lay down ceramic tiles.

springer said:

You could always do this dricore I have seen this at Home Depot . You do have to use cement board over it to lay down ceramic tiles.

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I have seen this stuff before. Like the picture shows it's basically a plastic bottom that elevates a "subfloor" and creates a partial water barrier. I have never talked to anyone who has used it but seems like a decent option. Who know how expensive it is though.

DryLoc is great stuff. Only thing is it aint worth a crap on top of the epoxy. you wont get all the epoxy off to be able to use DryLoc.

DryLoc could have been used before or instead of Epoxy then a wood floor. but I think and i admit i don't know but my experience with DryLoc is that it will not work now that there is that epoxy on the floor.

I had this trouble in a washroom years ago. The original installer didn't put down any plastic (vapor barrier) under the rebar. Back then, the only solution was to break up the slab and repour it. I put an addition on the house and redid the slab then. There have been many advancements since then. First, I would have a slab specialist come look at it. Your avatar says you're form NY so they will be familiar with the most up to date info. It will be worth the consultation fee. If you don't seal it, nothing that attaches to the floor will work for long. As soon as moisture gets between the slab and the thin set, the tile will pop up. If dry-lok will work, you can remove the epoxy. Contact the manufacturer for a solvent that will remove the stuff that didn't harden and, if nothing else, you can rent a small sandblaster to remove the hardened stuff. Finally, even if you use one of the floors that just lay down over the slab, if you don't seal it, you will have mold and it will wick up through your walls. Hope this helps. Luck - Dwain

Simphoto02 said:

DryLoc is great stuff. Only thing is it aint worth a crap on top of the epoxy. you wont get all the epoxy off to be able to use DryLoc.

DryLoc could have been used before or instead of Epoxy then a wood floor. but I think and i admit i don't know but my experience with DryLoc is that it will not work now that there is that epoxy on the floor.

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I'm thinking tryin' to get the epoxy up and then a couple gallons of Dryloc would be better than breaking up the concrete.

There's gotta be something you can drop down on it that it'll eat that epoxy up.... paint thinner, etc.

Again... I'm just thinking it would be a heck of a lot easier and cheaper to go that route first before you start breaking up concrete or laying down vapor barriers and laying another floor on top of it.

Lots of good ideas here. Thanks for the feedback guys. We dont want to break up the foundation, its not going to happen. So that would leave us with two options, using another $120 worth of paint remover/solvant to remove the $200 of floor epoxy, then applying DryLoc and Epoxy all over. I estimate that to cost about $500 based on the current stuff we have already bought.

The other option is to build a raised floor. Put down a vapor barrier, put down hard foam insulation on top, put in a drain while we are there, and put some wood on top. The vapor barrier +foam insulation should provide us with protection from the water as well as better insulation and a drain to clean everything off.

I am starting to think a slightly raised floor may be the best bet as it offers more of a physical barrier, similar cost, and adds the benefits of better insulation, floor drain, and comfort standing all day. Luckily one of our fathers is a carpenter and there is a good chance he will be able to do this (along with the moldings) for a minimal cost. On a related note, here is a picture of a tap handle he made for us. We will be using it to mold plastic tap handles from(its red because we are sanding it smooth for molding.)

wouldn't a wood floor be a disaster for a brewery? I'd be thinking about a barrier, hardibacker board and tile with a floor drain. You can use the rubber commercial kitchen mats for comfort. That tap handle is beautiful.

I agree, go with tile and be done with it. Wood frame subfloor with drain, backer board, tile, grout, seal...Easy cleanup and washdown. My old house had 1/2 finished basement that was our living room, the rug was on a subfloor which was laid on poly/vapor barrier on top of the concrete floor. The nice thing is that the concrete and moisture under the subfloor can breath by being open along the end. Have the drain just go to the outside of the garage wall and dump on the ground. For the minimal times you'll use it it won't be worth connecting it to anything else and add more labor...that is unless you can connect it very easily.

bdavanza said:

wouldn't a wood floor be a disaster for a brewery? I'd be thinking about a barrier, hardibacker board and tile with a floor drain. You can use the rubber commercial kitchen mats for comfort. That tap handle is beautiful.

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You would need hardibacker for laying the tile on but this would be put on top of the wooden subfloor. Although some people do lay tile directly on particle board or plywood it is not ideal especially if you have heavy mash tuns and what not that are going to "flex" the subfloor and crack the tile. This would be my reasoning for the hardibacker (cement board).

My vote would be for a well sealed bamboo floor. Cheap, attractive, and cleans easily. That is what I will be putting in my brewery.

Do you then put a sealing layer on top of the bamboo?
I have never worked with one.

ClaudiusB said:

Not me

Here is my solution.
Only one connection to each line shown.

Only three quick connections are required during brewing, gas, air and waste line.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

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Upside down EMT half straps straps for the gas and air line come on CladiusB you know better than that as your plumbing is about to fall off the wall.
Rigid half straps with backings or even two hole straps vs one hole.
A length of gas line falling down is enough to snap off at the threads causing a bad gas leak and a fire hazard.

We did not make much progress this weekend. A few minor things were done however. We coated the patio with the sealer which made it nice and shiny. We insulated about 1/3 of the garage. This is taking forever as we currently only have 1 staple gun to use, each piece of R-30 is only 4' long so it just barely fits between the 2' boards supporting the insulation in the ceiling. Hopefully tonight the majority of the insulation will be complete. We also installed the vent fan (110 CFM) and ducted it to an existing vent in the garage.

Tonight I am also planning on finishing up the Cat 6 lines and preping for paint on the walls sometime this week.

O yeah, and we finally got around to brewing! you know, that thing that has been the entire purpose of building the brewery in the garage in the first place... We did a cream ale, on the stove ( 2lb DME, 3.3lb LME and some vangard hops to 1.044SG with White Labs Cream Ale Yeast and put it in a corny to ferment. The last batch of cream ale we made went bad (too cold) and smells like nail polish remover. The only batch to go bad out of our 20-30 we have made so far... On a positive note, our stout is 100% ready and our Pale Ale is tasting great and just needs to be carbed. Going to brew an Amber Ale this week as well and then we will be all set for our opening party in about another month!

Here are some crappy low light pictures of the insulation! (if only I trusted myself with my Canon XSi on a ladder)

Progress has slowed a little lately due to lack of funding (ie being broke) We have spend nearly $6,000 so far just to renovate the garage, and more will be needed to buy all the necessary equipment. I think we will be able to pull it off though. Some things, like ceiling tiles, sneak up on you though, $1/Sq.ft doesnt sound too bad until you do the math and realize you need $500 of ceiling tiles.

Got ahold of a buddy with a network crimper and finished off the network connections in the brewery, We have internet!!!

And what more could one want than fresh beer and internet?

I put in most of the insulation except for the more difficult part along the right wall that needs to be stuffed into the ceiling. Its about 3/4 done at least. Its a slow process with one staple gun but its getting done.



We finally picked out a paint color and got to work priming and painting. Fresh plaster really sucks up primer. Here is the finished results of the painting and tape removal.


What better color to paint a brewery than a nice golden brown beer color. Beer spilled on the walls? No problem! The color is a bit off in the photos but I assure you it looks like beer. Going to have someone come in a do a little touch up to give it some depth in the foam etc but its basically done. Once the white ceiling tiles are in I think it will really sell the look.

After the paint dried for a day we put in the outlets and covers and cleaned everything up a bit. It is finally safe to turn on the electricity to the outlets! I also took some time to wire up the speaker plate. 2 outdoor speakers on the patio and 4 in-ceiling speakers will be installed shortly. Hopefully these will produce some decent sound while saving us floor/shelf space. There is also talk of a guitar amp hookup.




Thats all the updates for now. We bought a package of ceiling tiles to test them out and see how they look. Just some more insulation and ceiling tiles and we can start moving stuff in.

looking good. At first glance I thought, WOW That tape line is not straight at all....Wait a minute I bet he;s going for the "Glass of Beer" Look.

Awesome!

IrregularPulse said:

looking good. At first glance I thought, WOW That tape line is not straight at all....Wait a minute I bet he;s going for the "Glass of Beer" Look.

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Unfortunately, the garage is a bit uneven, especially on the floor, its sinking a bit in the back. I found it would be impossible to make strait lines without careful measuring etc and then it might make the floor look uneven etc. Instead we decided the slightly wavy glass of beer look would work out better.

On a side note, dont use anything other than 3M painters tape. I had someone go to the store for me and buy the "cheap stuff" and it did not stick at all.

More updates. It's always that last 10% to finish a project that seems to take forever. The inside ceiling tiles are completely done for the bottom half of the ceiling and almost all done for the top half.



The insulation is done minus one row that was left out so we could still access the ceiling... to install the sign!

Former backboard prepped and measured to place the sign level and center.


Cross supports on back of sign that we are using to mount it.


Bolt configuration holding up the sign. 1/2" bolt with washers on either side. Threaded screw hole (very similar to a tap handle screw)


Drilled holes and screwed in the threaded screw holes.


Drilled 4 holes in the backboard and popped the bolts and washers on.


Sign is hung!


Full shot of the brewery.


So there it is, the sign is hung, we are practically on our way! Just a few minor things to finish up in the inside, like trim work and a few ceiling tiles and we are all done with construction, except for the outside screened in area. Hope to be finishing up this week with some of the leftover stuff and moving on to the patio and putting the brewing stuff in the brewery!

Wow, nice!

Any updates?

damn i just graduated from binghamton how did i not meet you when i was there

We went to SCC..... and graduated in 2002...

Also, the brewery (building) is done... working on the brewing system now.... it is nearly complete and we will have a working brewery!!

How is the brewery going?

Feeling weak....need.....more.....pics

So the garage is nearly complete... we have heat... and now AC for the upcoming summer months... A bunch of stuff we removed from the garage got put back inside when winter hit. We need to remove some of this stuff and start up work again on the garage. Our current focus is completing the automated brewing system that will be in the garage asap so we can start brewing. We will definitely need to re surface the floors as they look really bad now. That was a waist of a few $100 dollars towards paint strippers and 3 coats of epoxy... now we will need to buy more stripper to get that stuff off.

Their is no perminant furnature in the brewery. Everything folds or is on wheels so it shouldnt be too hard of a time to move things around. We also want to screen in the outdoor patio connected to the garage and possibly put in a outside beer tap (maybe hidden?) so that we can enjoy the summer and our beer from the comfort of our patio.

We are full swing into beer projects. Including growing hops. Hopefully the pictures of the hops (currently being moved in and out of the brewery due to falling night time temperatures) will suffice for right now.

This is just half of the stuff we are using for the hops. This is the second trip.


We used large plastic buckets to grow in. Drainage holes were drilled.


Added some rocks for drainage too. The yard was full of them, this was apparent when digging the trench for gas and electric...


Here we are in the middle of planting.


Finished hops planted and ready to grow. We did 4x Cascade and 4x Willamette, each in its own container, Rocks, 2 bags of dirt, and 3-4" of mulch.


Hopefully we will see some results in a few weeks as we continue to work on the garage and brewing systems.

The brewery is a bit of a mess after our construction of various parts and attempts at tube bending... should be clean by this weekend and we will have more pictures then... in the mean time check out our HERMS system which has plenty of pictures of the brewery in the background....

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/automated-herms-system-132119/index25.html

We cleaned out most of the brewery. Here is a quick picture of it's current state. The tables on the right contain all the soon to be assembled parts for the brew system. we are getting closer!

Looks Awesome! I wish I had something like that to brew in!!

And I love the sign!

Question: I never saw what you decided to do about the floor? Are you just leaving it as is, or adding the raised flooring?

HBRunner said:

Looks Awesome! I wish I had something like that to brew in!!

And I love the sign!

Question: I never saw what you decided to do about the floor? Are you just leaving it as is, or adding the raised flooring?

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For now we are leaving it as is. We have some ideas, a raised floor or a better floor coating... but for now it will have to be ok just so we can start brewing. We are looking at what to do with the outside patto. All of the epoxy paint needs to be removed now and I think we will go with stain instead... Then it will be framed and screened in. That should be happening within the next month.

Also went to look at sheds and found a X-large rubbermade 7x7x7' shed made out of plastic that looks like it will fit the extra grill, tires, snow blower, car chemicals etc thats cluttering up the brewery.... from its former life as a garage.