Koningshoeven tripel recipe feedback

Hi all, I want to brew something close to Koningshoeven's tripel. Here's the ingredients they list on the bottle.

Malts: Pale, caramel, munich
Hops: Hallertauer Northern Brew, Slovenian Super Steirer, Tettnang Tettnanger
Bitterness 27 BU
ABV 8%


Here's the recipe I came up with.

Full boil
Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.25 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 70.73 %
1.00 lb Munich Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 9.76 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 9.76 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 25.0 IBU
1.00 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (5 min) Hops 2.6 IBU
1.00 lb Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 9.76 %
1 Pkgs Trappist Ale (White Labs #WLP500) [Starter 35 ml] Yeast-Ale

I'm hoping someone that's had this beer and more experience brewing, can give me some tips to get it close. Bottle says they use a unique yeast, so I'm guessing that has a lot to do with the flavor. Things I'm not sure about: hop schedule, fermentation temp, aging time (if at all)

Too much crystal. Being that you are using extract, I would drop it or cut to 4 oz.

1lb Crystal isn't bad imo. I've done a lot of brews with this much. But if you are really trying to clone this Tripel, I would definitely cut it down to 1/2 lb maybe 1 lb of Munich malt.. not liquid. For Tripels, most of the grain is Pale/Pilsner + sugar

syd138 said:

1lb Crystal isn't bad imo. I've done a lot of brews with this much. But if you are really trying to clone this Tripel, I would definitely cut it down to 1/2 lb maybe 1 lb of Munich malt.. not liquid. For Tripels, most of the grain is Pale/Pilsner + sugar

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I'm trying to avoid a partial mash. Munich requires a mash right?

syd138 said:

1lb Crystal isn't bad imo.

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It is for a Triple! Especially when using extract which probably already has enough unfermentables...

wing-it said:

I'm trying to avoid a partial mash. Munich requires a mash right?

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Yes it does.

wing-it said:

I'm trying to avoid a partial mash. Munich requires a mash right?

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Well how were you planning on using the Crystal?

You would have to steep that anyway.. so just throw another lb of Munich in the grain bag... let it steep at 155 for an hour. Then you are good to go.

Pretty sure Munich lacks the enzymes needed, so I would have to use some base malt too. Then I'm looking at 2 hours of extra brew time to mash and sparge.
Big difference between steep and mash.

Poobah58 said:

Too much crystal. Being that you are using extract, I would drop it or cut to 4 oz.

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Koningshoeven seems darker than a typical tripel. If I start decreasing crystal, I lose the color and I'm guessing the flavor will be off.

Here's a good pic (hopefully this works):
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_x__N4GxTtCE/SrwhQsAoxqI/AAAAAAAAAe8/rjNVsZrwpTM/P1020245.JPG

They probably use darker sugar.

Poobah58 said:

They probably use darker sugar.

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He's right.. they probably do use darker sugar. Crystal is not usually used to get a darker color. Usually Special B is used in Belgians to get a darker color also.

In answer to your other question:
1) You can use Munich as a base if you want
2) But it doesn't matter because you are using 7lbs of extract
3) You aren't looking at 2 extra hours.. you are looking at 45 min to an hour. Look up the sticky thread on how to do an easy PM by Deathbrewer. All you do is steep the grain for 45min to an hour.. then sparge for a minute. All that PM is is basically steeping grain. I've done up to a 5lb PM no problem.

I find it very easy to use some of the brewing software to get clones spot on. I like one in particular and it allows tweeking pretty effortlessly and backing out recipes a cinch.

If you like belgian's I would really suggest moving up to all grain. I stopped extract brewing and took the plunge, bought a larger pot that I use as mashtun and boil tun. I start my mashes early in the AM and mash for 90 min. Run, sparge, and run into a 5 gallon bucket, dump my spent grain, rinse my pot and take out the grain screen then siphon my wort back into the pot and start my 90 min boil. The quality of my beer increased dramatically not to mention the clarity of my beers due to the long boil.

Extract can contain a lot of unitentifiable fermentables not all of which are barley. You will also find that your beers are always darker than the style calls for if you use liquid extract. Dry extract is prohibitively expensive when compared to grain. I can make a tripel for around $26 in grain, another $6 if I use fresh yeast and don't harvest it from a bottle. So I can produce a batch of all grain belgian tripel for between $25 and $35 dollars which compares pretty favorable with the ~$200 price tag for the same quantity of beer at a retail price of $8 per 22oz bottle. The coriander, citric acid, sugar and other sundries are not factored in since you probably have or will have them and can use them in multiple batchs. You can make invert or candi sugar yourself. A pinch of citric acid in the amount of candi sugar called for and then boil it to the hard crack stage and or darkness or carmelness you want. I cool mine in one of those rubber like baking pan inserts. The rubber then just peels off the cooled brick of sugar reducing the mess of cleanup.

If Keornigshoeven is not pastuerized, why not buy a bottle and save the yeast and try brewing a batch with that. I have tried that with several belgians with good results. One caveat is that not all bottle conditioniing is done with the same yeast as used in the fermentation. But it might be worth a try.

syd138 said:

Look up the sticky thread on how to do an easy PM by Deathbrewer. All you do is steep the grain for 45min to an hour.. then sparge for a minute.

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Yeah, that looks pretty easy. Ok, switching to PM. How's this:

5.25 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 46.66 %
4.00 lb Pale Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 35.55 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4.45 %
0.50 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 4.44 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 24.7 IBU
1.00 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (5 min) Hops 2.6 IBU
1.00 lb Candi Sugar, Amber (75.0 SRM) Sugar 8.89 %
1 Pkgs Trappist Ale (White Labs #WLP500) [Starter 35 ml] Yeast-Ale

Est Original Gravity: 1.080 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.019 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.08 %
Bitterness: 27.3 IBU
Est Color: 13.0 SRM

I cut back on the crystal and using amber sugar for the color.

wing-it said:

Yeah, that looks pretty easy. Ok, switching to PM. How's this:

5.25 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 46.66 %
4.00 lb Pale Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 35.55 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4.45 %
0.50 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 4.44 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 24.7 IBU
1.00 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (5 min) Hops 2.6 IBU
1.00 lb Candi Sugar, Amber (75.0 SRM) Sugar 8.89 %
1 Pkgs Trappist Ale (White Labs #WLP500) [Starter 35 ml] Yeast-Ale

Est Original Gravity: 1.080 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.019 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.08 %
Bitterness: 27.3 IBU
Est Color: 13.0 SRM

I cut back on the crystal and using amber sugar for the color.

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It looks pretty good. I would mabye cut back on the Pale Malt by a pound or two.. increase your DME a bit.

It'll just be easier for your first time PMing.

But it'll be a good beer. Try to keep it in the low 70's.. and think about doing about a 1-liter starter.. 1.080 is pretty big.

Watch your mash temperture, if it goes to high the PM runnings won't attenuate and you won't get as dry a beer as you might want.

Just curious how this turned out. The wife and I just tried this beer the other night and I'd love to clone it. I posted my own thread regarding which yeast to use, but I'm curious what you used and how it turned out.

I haven't done a side-by-side yet. I've actually only had two bottles of it so far (it's been aging). I'll try to do that this weekend and let you know.

How 'bout it?

ok, let's see... This recipe is darker; I'm not sure if it's the dark candy or too much munich/crystal. Mine finished too low, resulting in a 8.5% beer instead of 8%. The extra alcohol is hidden well by the extra something (I think it's the candy sugar). It tastes sweet, which surprises me for the low FG (1.009). It's like a brown sugar taste, so I think the dark candy sugar is too much.

Okay as far as yeast goes.... I used WLP500 and I don't think that's a bad choice if you keep the fermentation temps under control. I kept mine at 70. It's hard to pick out the yeast flavor over the extra ABV and candy, so I can't be much help there.

I think next time I'll use clear sugar instead of dark and leave everything else the same... Except maybe convert to AG.

Correction. FG was 1.012

Thanks for the review. This one's on the list to brew before long and I'll probably follow your lead and go with the WLP500.