My first all-grain batch!

Hello everyone...

Quick questions about an all-grain recipe for a Sierra Nevada Clone.

A little about me...I'm currently an extract brewer standing on the verge of doing my first all grain batch! Been extract brewing for about 1.5 years and I've got a good handle on it. I've done a good deal of research on all-grain brewing but since I've never actually DONE it, I'm unclear about a couple of details.

I have posted the recipe below; and my questions are typed below that. Any and all feedback is appreciated!


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Sierra Nevada Clone (all grain)

Ingredients:
• 10.25 lbs 2-row pale malt
• 10 oz. crystal 60L
• 2.5 AAU Magnum (60 min)
• 4.8 AAU Perle (60 min)
• 5 AAU Cascade (15 min)
• 3.75 AAU Cascade (0 min)
• 0.75 oz whole Cascade (dry hop)
• 1 tsp Irish Moss
• White Labs WLP001 (California Ale) w/ 1.5 qt. yeast starter
• 7/8 cups priming sugar

Step by Step:

Heat 3.42 gallons of water to 161 degrees F, stir in crushed grain and mash at 154 degrees F. Mash for 60 minutes and then stir in boiled water to raise the grain bed temperature to 168 degrees F. Hold for 5 minutes. Recirculate until wort is clear (about 20 minutes), then begin running wort off to kettle. Sparge with water hot enough to maintain grain bed temperature at 170 degrees F. Collect 6.5 gallons of wort and boil for 90 minutes, adding hops at times indicated in the ingredient list. Add Irish Moss with 15 minutes left in the boil. Cool wort and transfer to fermenter. Aerate wort and pitch sediment from yeast starter. Ferment at 68 degrees F. Rack to secondary when fermentation is complete and add dry hops. Bottle when beer falls clear.
****


My questions:

1. I'm going to use fly sparging for this batch. My question is...after I recirculate, and wort is running clear, should I completely empty the lauter tun before I start sparging? Or should I start the fly sparge as soon as I begin the transfer to the kettle? I suspect it is the latter, but the difference in temperatures specified for mash out and sparge confused me.

2. Is there any general rule of thumb for how long I should fly sparge? I'm trying to figure out what kind of flow rate I should have going in/out of the lauter tun.

3. How do I know what temperature to use for my sparge water in order to maintain 170 degrees in the grain bed? Would I just use 170 degree water and let it reach an equilibrium with the temp of the grain bed (which would be around 168 degrees when sparging begins)?

Thanks again!!

EvilBrewer said:

Hello everyone...

Quick questions about an all-grain recipe for a Sierra Nevada Clone.

A little about me...I'm currently an extract brewer standing on the verge of doing my first all grain batch! Been extract brewing for about 1.5 years and I've got a good handle on it. I've done a good deal of research on all-grain brewing but since I've never actually DONE it, I'm unclear about a couple of details.

I have posted the recipe below; and my questions are typed below that. Any and all feedback is appreciated!


****
Sierra Nevada Clone (all grain)

Ingredients:
• 10.25 lbs 2-row pale malt
• 10 oz. crystal 60L
• 2.5 AAU Magnum (60 min)
• 4.8 AAU Perle (60 min)
• 5 AAU Cascade (15 min)
• 3.75 AAU Cascade (0 min)
• 0.75 oz whole Cascade (dry hop)
• 1 tsp Irish Moss
• White Labs WLP001 (California Ale) w/ 1.5 qt. yeast starter
• 7/8 cups priming sugar

Step by Step:

Heat 3.42 gallons of water to 161 degrees F, stir in crushed grain and mash at 154 degrees F. Mash for 60 minutes and then stir in boiled water to raise the grain bed temperature to 168 degrees F. Hold for 5 minutes. Recirculate until wort is clear (about 20 minutes), then begin running wort off to kettle. Sparge with water hot enough to maintain grain bed temperature at 170 degrees F. Collect 6.5 gallons of wort and boil for 90 minutes, adding hops at times indicated in the ingredient list. Add Irish Moss with 15 minutes left in the boil. Cool wort and transfer to fermenter. Aerate wort and pitch sediment from yeast starter. Ferment at 68 degrees F. Rack to secondary when fermentation is complete and add dry hops. Bottle when beer falls clear.
****


My questions:

1. I'm going to use fly sparging for this batch. My question is...after I recirculate, and wort is running clear, should I completely empty the lauter tun before I start sparging? Or should I start the fly sparge as soon as I begin the transfer to the kettle? I suspect it is the latter, but the difference in temperatures specified for mash out and sparge confused me.

NO, keep about 1-2" of water on top of the grain bed. Mashout at 168F or so and sparge with 170ish degree water. This is just to keep the grain bed hot during the lauter.

2. Is there any general rule of thumb for how long I should fly sparge? I'm trying to figure out what kind of flow rate I should have going in/out of the lauter tun.

I spend about 30 minutes... maybe 40. I get 82% eff. so I dont think it has to be much longer.

3. How do I know what temperature to use for my sparge water in order to maintain 170 degrees in the grain bed? Would I just use 170 degree water and let it reach an equilibrium with the temp of the grain bed (which would be around 168 degrees when sparging begins)?

You are overthinking this all grain thing. 170F is a target.... shhh, I used to NEVER mash out and STILL got 78% eff! Mashout to about 168F and sparge with 168-173F water to keep the grain bed hot. Dont split hairs, it isnt rocket science. If you are between 160-173F on the sparge temp, it wont change anything.

Thanks again!!

Click to expand...

I am brewing this on my E-HERMS on Saturday on a webcast! Good luck to ya!

Here is my link and recipe!
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/snpa-clone-brew-day-coming-up-118209/

Thanks for the information...that definitely helps. Yeah, I'm doing my best not to split too many hairs before I actually brew, haha.

The first AG is intimidating, but once you get through it, you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

Good Luck.

Just want to add to always have more hot water on hand than is needed, Be it for mash in or sparging. All systems are not created equal and different varieties of grains absorb differently. Nothing like doing your first all grain and having to be scrambling for some hot water. Learning all grain is easy, learning how to work whatever system you are using to your advantage to hit your numbers time and time again for whatever beer your making is the real art.

martymoat said:

Just want to add to always have more hot water on hand than is needed, Be it for mash in or sparging. All systems are not created equal and different varieties of grains absorb differently. Nothing like doing your first all grain and having to be scrambling for some hot water. Learning all grain is easy, learning how to work whatever system you are using to your advantage to hit your numbers time and time again for whatever beer your making is the real art.

Click to expand...

+1 to this...

It took time, but I have my fluid losses and boil off down to .5 quarts. I get exactly what I need in the HLT, so when I start to fly sparge, I simply start the pump and walk away. The HLT runs dry and the MLT runs dry and the kettle has exactly what I need pre-boil. It is crazy, but that is how precise you can get.

I may be wrong, but it looks as though your strike temperature is low by about 8 degrees. That is even if you pre-heat the MLT.

I usually recirculate about 2 quarts, which takes much less than 20 minutes. You just need to get the wort free of grain particles.

For your questions, I agree with The Pol on 1 and 3. For number 2, I would sparge for ~ 40 minutes using my large MLT, but ~60 minutes with the small MLT. It all depends on the equipment you are using.

-a.

I use a 10 gallon cooler, 40 minute sparge

I agree, per ProMash your strike temp should be 167F for that volume of water, that ammount of grain, and that target mash temp. THIS IS ASSUMING YOUR MLT IS ALREADY PRE HEATED

If you strike with 161F water, you will rest at 149F in the MLT, VERY LOW

ajf said:

I may be wrong, but it looks as though your strike temperature is low by about 8 degrees. That is even if you pre-heat the MLT.

I usually recirculate about 2 quarts, which takes much less than 20 minutes. You just need to get the wort free of grain particles.

For your questions, I agree with The Pol on 1 and 3. For number 2, I would sparge for ~ 40 minutes using my large MLT, but ~60 minutes with the small MLT. It all depends on the equipment you are using.

-a.

Click to expand...

I think your strike water temperature is low as well. My 2 cents.

Okay, he is low...

ProMash is giving me about 167F for strike, assuming a preheated MLT.

How bout the rest of yall?

The Pol said:

Okay, he is low...

ProMash is giving me about 167F for strike, assuming a preheated MLT.

How bout the rest of yall?

Click to expand...

Any recommendation on specifically how to preheat my MLT? It is a 5 gallon Rubbermaid cooler with a false bottom.

Also...I've seen a few references to ProMash in this thread. That's the software of choice for homebrewing, huh? Eventually, I'd like to get a copy but I'm wondering if I could justify it at this point...being that this is my first AG batch. I guess I told myself that I'd look into it once I've successfully brewed this first batch.

ajf said:

I may be wrong, but it looks as though your strike temperature is low by about 8 degrees. That is even if you pre-heat the MLT.

I usually recirculate about 2 quarts, which takes much less than 20 minutes. You just need to get the wort free of grain particles.

For your questions, I agree with The Pol on 1 and 3. For number 2, I would sparge for ~ 40 minutes using my large MLT, but ~60 minutes with the small MLT. It all depends on the equipment you are using.

-a.

Click to expand...

You recommend a 60 minute sparge for a small MLT? My MLT is a 5-gallon Rubbermaid cooler with a false bottom. Can I assume large and small refers to 10- and 5-gallon, respectively?

The Pol said:

Okay, he is low...

ProMash is giving me about 167F for strike, assuming a preheated MLT.

How bout the rest of yall?

Click to expand...

On my system it is probably closer to 170.

You can preheat the cooler with a gallon or so of 160 water added a few minutes before mashing. Then dump the water and proceed.

EvilBrewer said:

You recommend a 60 minute sparge for a small MLT? My MLT is a 5-gallon Rubbermaid cooler with a false bottom. Can I assume large and small refers to 10- and 5-gallon, respectively?

Click to expand...

Yes, The large is a 10g Rubbermaid and the small 5g.
I have a SS false bottom in the 10g, and a Phils (plastic) phalse bottom in the 5g.
I don't know if the difference is caused by the different dimensions of the MLT's or the design of the false bottom. I do know that the holes in the plastic false bottom are smaller than those in the SS one.
I'm not recommending a 60 minute sparge, just saying that that is what it takes in my case. YMMV.

Hope this helps,

-a.

Blender said:

On my system it is probably closer to 170.

You can preheat the cooler with a gallon or so of 160 water added a few minutes before mashing. Then dump the water and proceed.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up, everyone (re: strike water temp). I downloaded a copy of Brewsmith and the temperature that it has calculated for me is in the range that you all have stated. It is saying 169.3 degrees F to be exact

Thanks again.

EvilBrewer said:

Thanks for the heads up, everyone (re: strike water temp). I downloaded a copy of Brewsmith and the temperature that it has calculated for me is in the range that you all have stated. It is saying 169.3 degrees F to be exact

Thanks again.

Click to expand...

Actually I meant 169.8 but I rounded it off for simplicity.

When you set up your equipment in Beer Smith it calculates a thermal mass for the MLT based on what type you chose. ProMash does the same. BUT, since I do not like unknown variables much, this is what I did.

THERMAL MASS OF TUN set to "0"

This will give you a LOWER strike temp.

I heat my STRIKE water to STRIKE temp PLUS 10-15F.

I put the strike water in the MLT, and let it sit for 5-10 minutes to preheat the MLT.

When the strike water cools to STRIKE temp, I mash in.

The MAIN reason I do this as opposed to using the THERMAL MASS calculation in the software... it doesnt account for the temp of the MLT.

If I set my THERMAL MASS to that of an insualted cooler, it will jack up my STRIKE TEMP about 3F or so. BUT this does not account for my MLT being 45F in the winter and 85F in the summer. See... this is why I DO NOT use the THERMAL MASS numbers in BS or PM software, it leaves out that variable.

The Pol said:

When you set up your equipment in Beer Smith it calculates a thermal mass for the MLT based on what type you chose. ProMash does the same. BUT, since I do not like unknown variables much, this is what I did.

THERMAL MASS OF TUN set to "0"

This will give you a LOWER strike temp.

I heat my STRIKE water to STRIKE temp PLUS 10-15F.

I put the strike water in the MLT, and let it sit for 5-10 minutes to preheat the MLT.

When the strike water cools to STRIKE temp, I mash in.

The MAIN reason I do this as opposed to using the THERMAL MASS calculation in the software... it doesnt account for the temp of the MLT.

If I set my THERMAL MASS to that of an insualted cooler, it will jack up my STRIKE TEMP about 3F or so. BUT this does not account for my MLT being 45F in the winter and 85F in the summer. See... this is why I DO NOT use the THERMAL MASS numbers in BS or PM software, it leaves out that variable.

Click to expand...

What you're saying makes sense...better to overshoot the strike temp but stay with the correct volume of water becuase you can always wait for it to cool (instead of having to add more volume of hot water to bring temp up).

The version of Beersmith that I downloaded today (5/13/2009) lets you input the temperature of the MLT. So, I might try to play around with that...I have an infrared thermometer (laser thingy) that I can use to measure the temp of the inside wall of the MLT. It also lets me specify what equipment I'm using (literally, mine is the option in BeerSmith called "Brew Pot (6+gal) and Igloo/Gott Cooler (5 Gal)")...so hopefully, it will calculate things accurately.

But I'm with you as far as not being fond of unknown variables...so I might just try your method. Thanks again.