How do I increase my Na levels?

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barhoc11

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I am trying to brew a Hefeweizen and have found my Na level of 1ppm in my otherwise acceptable finished water profile (below) seems low. Is it really as simple as adding some table salt (NaCl) or would that throw my Chloride levels out of whack?

This is one of the only profiles I cannot seem to get correctly so any input is very much appreciated.

Thanks!

Starting Water (ppm):
Ca: 25.5
Mg: 7.56
Na: 4.74
Cl: 9
SO4: 31.2
CaCO3: 79

Mash / Sparge Vol (gal): 5.478 / 7.39
RO or distilled %: 100% / 50%

Total Grain (lb): 16.0

Adjustments (grams) Mash / Boil Kettle:
CaSO4: 0 / 0
CaCl2: 1 / 0
MgSO4: 1 / 0
NaHCO3: 0 / 0
CaCO3: 0 / 0
Lactic Acid (ml): 0
Sauermalz (oz): 7

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 13 / 13
Mg: 4 / 4
Na: 0 / 1
Cl: 23 / 12
SO4: 19 / 17
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 1.24 / 0.74

Alkalinity (CaCO3): -266
RA: -278
Estimated pH: 5.62
(room temp)
 
Sure you can simply add salt to your beer, but IMHO salt is one of the worst possible flavors in beer. Gives a warm rounded taste that is truly awful. You'd have to point me to a real expert or technical reference before I'd believe that ANY salt could help a beer. Maybe very small amounts, but I'm skeptical.
 
I don't think you want to add table salt. It is usually iodized, and iodine doesn't seem like something you want in your beer. If you really want to add sodium get some sea salt, which shouldn't have iodine.
 
Thanks for the advice, I was actually going to get canning salt but now I am wondering if it is really necessary. I know too much salt is not good but 'just enough' does enhance flavors.

If I didn't add any canning salt, would a Na level of 1 really degrade the flavor of the Centennial Blonde I am making?
 
Is the "starting water" listed above your tap water? Looks pretty darn good to me! I don't see much reason to use 50% or 100% RO if you have that. But honestly I can't figure out exactly what you're doing.
 
Is the "starting water" listed above you tap water? Looks pretty darn good to me! I don't see much reason to use 100% RO if you have that.

I read that getting the cholride and sulfate levels down is key for brewing a Hefeweizen so I had to add distilled water to do that. My tap water isn't bad, its just not the best for this type of beer.
 
So your plan is to reduce Cl, SO4, and just accept the minimal Calcium (13) that results from that strategy? I'm not so sure that's a great idea, since it's recommended to keep Ca at least 30 or so, and at least 50 if possible.
 
So your plan is to reduce Cl, SO4, and just accept the minimal Calcium (13) that results from that strategy? I'm not so sure that's a great idea, since it's recommended to keep Ca at least 30 or so, and at least 50 if possible.

I was looking at the Pilsen style in BruWater and it had its Calcium levels at 7ppm so I hadn't thought that was an issue. Increasing Calcium would be fine but my options are adding CaSo4 and/or CaCl2 so that just makes my So4 and Cl ppm increase.

I have never had an issue getting close to my desired profile like this so I am happy for any feedback, I have made a similar Hefe with my existing water and the following water profile and it came out 'so so' this is why I wanted to try lowering these amounts.

Previous Hefeweizen that was OK:
Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 81 / 81
Mg: 11 / 11
Na: 2 / 2
Cl: 96 / 96
SO4: 87 / 87
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 1.10 / 1.10
 
Cl of 96 and SO4 of 87 looks high for a Hefe, and surely some of the experts will chime in. I'd definitely expect your plain tap water to be better than that. And I wouldn't worry about the Cl/SO4 ratio for your tap water either since both levels are pretty low.
 
I was looking at the Pilsen style in BruWater and it had its Calcium levels at 7ppm so I hadn't thought that was an issue. Increasing Calcium would be fine but my options are adding CaSo4 and/or CaCl2 so that just makes my So4 and Cl ppm increase.

I have never had an issue getting close to my desired profile like this so I am happy for any feedback, I have made a similar Hefe with my existing water and the following water profile and it came out 'so so' this is why I wanted to try lowering these amounts.

Previous Hefeweizen that was OK:
Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 81 / 81
Mg: 11 / 11
Na: 2 / 2
Cl: 96 / 96
SO4: 87 / 87
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 1.10 / 1.10

Not bad, but I'd dilute that water with some RO water to reduced the S04. Ignore the Cl to S04 ratio.

Keep the ca at 50 ppm or thereabouts, target a mash pH of 5.3-5.5 (room temperature) and don't add epsom salts.
 
I'm not telling you not to worry about your water chemistry. You should.

What I would tell you, though, that for a Hefeweizen, the water chemistry is quite inconsequential and you'd be safer to err more on the side of "distilled" water than not.

The water here (South Germany) is SUPER soft since it mostly comes from the Alps and not the ground.

In addition to that, Hefeweizen's dominant flavors are all yeast driven (minimal malt, no hop, no sharpness) and if you "overseason" your water it will show up.

Like with everything German, moderation is key... ;)
 
Not bad, but I'd dilute that water with some RO water to reduced the S04. Ignore the Cl to S04 ratio.

Keep the ca at 50 ppm or thereabouts, target a mash pH of 5.3-5.5 (room temperature) and don't add epsom salts.

Thanks for the tips, I think I am going to go with the profile below based on your recommendation. Now my last question is regarding pH, with this water adjustment I am at a pH of 5.56 Room Temp when adding 8oz of acid malt (3.1% of total grain bill), will this be acceptable or can I add more acid malt to bring this down even more. i am trying to avoid having a acidic taste if possible.

Adjustments (grams) Mash / Boil Kettle:
CaSO4: 1 / 0
CaCl2: 2 / 2.698064987
MgSO4: 0 / 0
NaHCO3: 0 / 0
CaCO3: 0 / 0
Lactic Acid (ml): 0
Sauermalz (oz): 8

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 37 / 46
Mg: 0 / 4
Na: 0 / 3
Cl: 47 / 52
SO4: 27 / 29
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 1.73 / 1.76
 
Thanks everyone, I am going with my latest adjustments I posted for this brew. I really appreciate the guidance.
 
Thanks for the tips, I think I am going to go with the profile below based on your recommendation. ...

Adjustments (grams) Mash / Boil Kettle:
CaSO4: 1 / 0
CaCl2: 2 / 2.698064987
MgSO4: 0 / 0
NaHCO3: 0 / 0
CaCO3: 0 / 0
Lactic Acid (ml): 0
Sauermalz (oz): 8

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 37 / 46
Mg: 0 / 4
Na: 0 / 3
Cl: 47 / 52
SO4: 27 / 29
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 1.73 / 1.76

So it looks like you're going to use RO water then add CaSO4 and CaCl? This strikes me as a bit strange considering your tap water will get you Ca 25, Cl 9, SO4 31, which is pretty darn good, and some might argue better. But yes a couple gallons of RO could be useful to get the CaCO3 down, although 79 isn't so bad. You must already have an RO system or else it seems like a lot of hassle. ;)
 
So it looks like you're going to use RO water then add CaSO4 and CaCl? This strikes me as a bit strange considering your tap water will get you Ca 25, Cl 9, SO4 31, which is pretty darn good, and some might argue better. But yes a couple gallons of RO could be useful to get the CaCO3 down, although 79 isn't so bad. You must already have an RO system or else it seems like a lot of hassle. ;)

I get what you are saying, why should I even bother with RO water if my water isn't that bad to start? I guess my concern was to get the pH down but when I change things to have 0% RO water, the pH only goes up to 5.61 from 5.56, which isn't that large of a jump.

I think I will try this batch with straight tap water and only add some CaCl2 in order to get my Calcium levels up to the levels listed below. I was trying to get my sulfates down lower but it sounds like it is not high enough to worry about.

Adjustments (grams) Mash / Boil Kettle:
CaSO4: 0 / 0
CaCl2: 3.5 / 0
MgSO4: 0 / 0
NaHCO3: 0 / 0
CaCO3: 0 / 0
Lactic Acid (ml): 0
Sauermalz (oz): 8

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 72 / 45
Mg: 8 / 8
Na: 5 / 5
Cl: 90 / 44
SO4: 31 / 31
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 2.90 / 1.40
 

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