PortaKeg trying to get starting money

This product looks like it will be sweet! http://www.indiegogo.com/portakeg
These guys are from my area and came up with this idea... they just need the funds to buy the molds. Please help out if you can... I would love to take my home brew kegs to parties in this!

It's kinda already been done, except these guys added a thermoelectric element to the unit:

http://www.beercooler.com/

Their project lists the $500 donation range as being what you need to get the "portakeg", and that's $100 less than retail.

$600 for a cooler with a paintball serving kit installed?

Yikes.

@JonnySax Thanks for posting about us!!

@TopherM We saw that product when we first were looking for portable draft beer systems three years ago. However, there were a couple of things that didn't work for what we had hoped to find: 1) it didn't have wheels that could easily go over pavement or gravel; 2) it used a standard metal tower that we didn't think would survive travel; and 3) we couldn't actually buy one (as you can see, there's nowhere at their site to purchase, best I can find is a used one on eBay for $400). We've spoken with individuals in the industry, from marketing executives to microbreweries about what they need in a design and have integrated those features in the PortaKeg. As a result, we have a patent-pending cooler design that, we think, is the most user-friendly (and attractive) system available.

@Raenon Obviously, we're hoping for reactions other than "Yikes." What are your concerns? Why doesn't that seem to be reasonable given other portable systems available (the only two options we have found are a trash can strapped to a dolly for $925 [http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/event-pid-JEPK-DA-CH.html] and the complete SuperCooler system, which isn't able to be transported in as many areas, for $860 [http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/event-pid-SC-3026A1.html])? We've attempted to build an easy-to-use system with a CO2 source that is more accessible for consumers than the other options we've seen (i.e. can be refilled at sporting goods stores as opposed to expensive single-use cartridges or larger CO2 tanks that have to be specially filled).

Your feedback is incredibly important to what we choose to do moving forward. We try to integrate suggestions from many areas into our design to make it functional for consumers and commercial users alike. If you have any thoughts, either reply here or feel free to email me personally at [email protected].

Thanks,
Albert

What I find odd about all these begging plans is that none of them offer a real investment. If the product or project had real potential, people would be willing to invest for a chance at a return on the investment.

I'm not sure how you personally started up, bobby, but I would think a small venture like this would lack any investment opportunity...please correct me if I'm wrong! And give this guy some pointers !

Neutral disclosure, bobby, your site is referenced on my upcoming bday list

PortaBeer said:

@Raenon Obviously, we're hoping for reactions other than "Yikes." What are your concerns?

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maybe as a curiosity or targeted to a different audience, but here with brewers, many are at the top of their game with DIY equipment.

"$600 for a cooler with a paintball serving kit installed?

Yikes. "

is the expected and reasonable response.

bobby_m said:

what i find odd about all these begging plans is that none of them offer a real investment. If the product or project had real potential, people would be willing to invest for a chance at a return on the investment.

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+1

Thank you all for thoughts/feedback.

I'd certainly be willing to engage in a conversation about crowdfunding, but it's probably not appropriate on this forum. I can say that it has its strengths and weaknesses and, from what I can tell, will be a net-positive for us regardless of whether we hit the number.

@amandabab That's a fair point. We're home brewers and are fans of a wide variety of beers. We looked at many of the DIY systems available and didn't see anything that we thought was a particularly elegant solution to remote draft dispensing. We decided to take a chance on designing something ourselves to combine our love of good draft beer with our love of tailgating and camping. It was only after we had positive feedback from other tailgaters, breweries, and others that we decided to try to make the project into a company.

Once again, I appreciate the interest and passion on the subject. Feedback is always welcome.

It seems like a great design. While $600 seems like a lot for a homebrewer, I'm sure beer distibutors and bars would have no problem shelling out that kind of money.

PortaBeer said:

Thank you all for thoughts/feedback.

I'd certainly be willing to engage in a conversation about crowdfunding, but it's probably not appropriate on this forum. I can say that it has its strengths and weaknesses and, from what I can tell, will be a net-positive for us regardless of whether we hit the number.

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It's not a matter of whether you'll get the funding you're after. I'm just expressing my disgust for begging for capital for for-profit business. There are many more ethical ways of raising the money. Take pre-orders. Offer investment opportunity with returns. Borrow. Of course begging for the money has that great benefit of no apparent risk.

While I think it's a cool product and potentially the most elegant solution for the problem, I wouldn't buy one purely on principal.

@Bobby I'm genuinely sorry that you feel that what we're doing is unethical. It comes a pretty big surprise -- I've had many conversations with everyone from friends to folks at the Small Business Administration about crowdfunding and have never heard that sentiment expressed. I've also supported crowdfunding campaigns in the past and have never felt that I had been taken advantage of in the process.

I see crowdfunding as an opportunity to show the world a product and give people the opportunity to provide feedback, both through comments and with their financial resources. If there is interest in seeing the project work, then people will be kind enough to either purchase the product (in many cases, there is a pre-sale element to crowdfunding) or go at a lower level because they believe in the idea. Unless there's an explicit fraud, any contributor to a crowdfunding campaign knows exactly what "perk" they receive for the amount of money they contribute. It's completely transparent. It has also successfully launched several different, innovative products that wouldn't have likely come to market without sites like Kickstarter and Indiegogo. If done in good faith, I think crowdfunding is a great way to help a small company (or an individual) launch an idea on a wide, commonly-accepted platform.

Without getting into the details of our company history, we've been working on the project for three years. All of the partners have full-time jobs and none of us have considerable access to capital. We saw a crowdfunding campaign as an opportunity to see how interested the market might be in our product. We've taken great personal risks, spending limited resources on paying for our legal structure, patents, operations, etc., to get the company off the ground (in addition to a couple very small grants from grad school business plan competition wins). I can't speak for all people who pursue crowdfunding projects, but for us, we're not in a position to access too many other sources of funding.

As for investment -- the short version is, that's illegal. That would be selling securities to the public, which would mean we would have to actually go public. That's amazingly expensive and, for a company our size (and potential), basically impossible.

In short, there are limited opportunities for inventors to go to market with their products, and crowdfunding campaigns seem to be one of the few ways to be able to do it. I support the idea because it's one of the few ways people who aren't major investors can still help small companies get started. While it can be ripe for abuse, I don't see the practice itself to be unethical at all.

Im from pittsburgh and really like the product. I come from a small business background. The price/investment at this point is just crazy. I can buy a kegerator and generator and enough gas to run the generator for a weekend for less, let alone the tub and ice method. It needs to be sub $250.

I don't see the innovation myself. Big cooler on wheels with a tap. How do you get the keg in? Lay on the side and push it up sideways?

PortaBeer said:

As for investment -- the short version is, that's illegal. That would be selling securities to the public, which would mean we would have to actually go public. That's amazingly expensive and, for a company our size (and potential), basically impossible.

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You don't have to go public. You should have the LLC already. You'd just need create a Limited Partnership for your investors.

I would seek a trademark lawyer and private capitol and stay under the radar until ready to launch at expos and trade-shows. Making a cooler the right size to fit a keg with molded features for installation of parts is a decent idea and a fun CAD project but why share it until you are ready to sell it? It is going to be extremely difficult to protect the idea from copying since portable coolers have been used for kegs for as long as there has been kegs. Just saying you have a patent does not protect at all while you start up. It is actually illegal if you do not have one or not applied. Trademarks you could defend though.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...ortakeg&FIELD1=&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=&d=PTXT

China is working on a knockoff already.

List price $199.95.

@Portabeer: have you tried developing a business plan and applying for business loans to acquire capital for your business? I would think that a good idea like this with a solid business plan would net plenty of funding to get off the ground. Just wondering why you are going group funding rather than loans.
BTW, good luck.

I am also not a fan of crowd sourcing for profit businesses and ideas. I think it's a great tool for charity but there are other avenues for securing funding for a project like this. You both seem like very nice folks with sales abilities. The preorder idea is great though. If you donate $500 you will get a cooler. That is a good deal. I'm not sure why people outside of your friends and family would be willing to pay you $50,000 to start a business.

Seems like this market would be more for trade shows and beer festivals, not homebrewers, unless you could get the price much lower. The idea of the trash can cooler on a dolly is good because I don't find it necessary to keep a keg cold for 36 hours. I need it cold for 12 max. I don't think I could see myself even spending a $100 bucks on a portable cooler. What has your market research show as far as potential customer base? Who is going to buy this for $600?

You've certainly made a professional looking product that is quite versatile. Hopefully you get some capital and can start moving some units.

Thanks again for the feedback and I appreciate the suggestions. I'll try to reply generally.

We have filed a non-provisional patent for the novel aspects of the unit with respect to what has already been patented by the USPTO. There are specific design features that are unique and we have applied for those features only, so the intellectual property is as covered as it possibly can be without having an actual patent issued. We're very comfortable with making this public both between what we've seen on the market and with what we've seen by way of issued patents and have legal protection. As such, it's legal for us to use the term "patent-pending."

We've chosen the crowdfunding route as one of many methods of both fundraising and marketing (it is absolutely a "both"). We have not stopped looking at opportunities for private investment and I don't expect that we would stop looking for that investment unless we went considerably above-and-beyond the crowdfunding goal we set (for those who are skeptical, you'll be happy to note that we are far below our funding goal and unlikely to hit it -- we've chosen all-or-nothing, so all contributors will get their money back). As for the LLC/LP point ... we're not allowed to sell ownership shares through crowdfunding sites. It's simply not allowed (explicitly stated in terms of service).

To load the keg -- yes, you lay it on its back (there are two "fins" that stabilize the unit so that it does not move/roll away) and slide the keg in sideways. From there, you can lift the unit by its extended handle using the wheels as a fulcrum. Assemble the components by hand (including a custom faucet coupling nut that doesn't require a wrench that we've designed) and it's ready to go.

It seems that there's a perception that I'm trying to sell our product on this forum. I'm not. I saw that our campaign had been posted on this forum and I decided to address any questions folks might have. I've not made a sales pitch to any of you all (I don't think, at least) and have simply been open to your thoughts and feedback. I genuinely appreciate your passion and thoughts, ESPECIALLY when they're negative as it helps test the ideas behind the product and allows us to constantly improve it. While we would LOVE to sell this product at some of the numbers mentioned, there simply isn't a way to do it (even if we chose to source the cooler internationally, which we aren't). We realize that it might price some people out of the market. But, we think we have an interesting design in a fun market we're trying as many ways as we can, both conventional and unconventional, to make it a reality for those entities who have expressed considerable interest in it.

A couple of final thoughts. First, feel free to contact me anytime at [email protected] or at 855.PortaBeer (767-8223). Second, I'm very proud of the work we did to get the campaign off the ground and feel confident that we have a shot at bringing this to market. Third, for those in the Pittsburgh area, we are planning a tailgate with Operation Once in a Lifetime (a non-profit that supports military personnel and their families to which we are financially and otherwise committed) and will be launching the PortaKeg on November 18th at Heinz Field before a Steelers/Ravens game -- email me if you'd like to join us. Finally, thank you for your thoughts and I look forward to having PortaKeg units available for sale.

Make the wheels rubber and make sure there is adequate ground clearance when its being pulled\pushed in gravel and grassy areas. It looks like a solid product but I would reduce the price. Sub $400 and they will sell. Just my .02...

Minjin said:

Sub $40 and they will sell.

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Fixed that for you.

Hello All:

It was more than a year ago that the discussion about our product--and fundraising--was started on this message board. We very much took the experience to heart and appreciated your feedback regardless of tone.

I thought it might be useful to let everyone know a quick update on the business.

After our spectacular failure at crowdfunding, we licked our wounds and rebuilt our strategy, which led to some private investment. We were able to come up with the final design and go to production, launching the product in March of last year. After some initial hiccups, we have solidified our manufacturing and expanded our customer base. We found a few markets where our product fit well, particularly in the hospitality, event venue, catering, and country club/golf club markets, as well as bars and restaurants, and we're excited by what 2014 will bring.

In any case, we genuinely appreciate your honest feedback and wanted to be sure to let you know that it impacted some of our business decisions in ways that have been helpful to our success.

Best regards,
Albert