Help! Low Efficiency...why?

CornyKegs 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
S

saevans18

Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
10
Reaction score
1
Location
Perrysburg
I've been all-grain brewing for about a year and can't figure out why my measured OG is so much lower than expected. Maybe it's my equipment, when I'm measuring the OG, how quickly I'm lautering, how much sparge water I'm using, etc. I've been able to make some solid brews, but the OG is always lower than expected. BeerSmith tells me my efficiency is usually about 45-50%.

Here are a couple pictures of my mash tun:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/photo/photo-oct-14-10-27-00-am-56870.html
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/photo/photo-oct-14-10-27-17-am-56871.html

I've been measuring the OG right before I put the wort into the fermenter (after I've cooled it down). When lautering, I continuously sparge for about an hour.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance!
-Sam
 
Your false bottom/braid set up is terribly inefficiency for fly sparging, as is the shape of your tun.

I'd suggest batch sparging for your next batch, if you haven't done so. It will make a big big difference (and be an hour faster!) since your setup will not really work well for fly sparging.
 
Also, look into the quality of your grain crush. This is often the issue when you have poor efficiency. If the grain is not crushed fine enough you will not be able to extract a high percentage of the available sugars.
 
Yooper said:
Your false bottom/braid set up is terribly inefficiency for fly sparging, as is the shape of your tun.

I'd suggest batch sparging for your next batch, if you haven't done so. It will make a big big difference (and be an hour faster!) since your setup will not really work well for fly sparging.
Click to expand...

Thanks, will give it a try. Also, should I measure OG before the boil?
 
Yes, That's your preboil SG. Knowing that can help you know if you need to boil longer or dilute, before you add your hops so you can adjust the schedule/amounts accordingly
 
slarkin712 said:
Also, look into the quality of your grain crush. This is often the issue when you have poor efficiency. If the grain is not crushed fine enough you will not be able to extract a high percentage of the available sugars.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I've typically had my LHBS crush the grain. I've never really asked them about how fine they crush it up. Is there a certain amount I'm looking for? Would it be better to crush my own grain?
 
saevans18 said:
Thanks. I've typically had my LHBS crush the grain. I've never really asked them about how fine they crush it up. Is there a certain amount I'm looking for? Would it be better to crush my own grain?
Click to expand...

Look at the grain they've crushed. If you see ANY whole grains, it's not good enough. I crush pretty fine (I also use a braid like you) and as long as there's some husks to form the lauter bed, you'll be just fine.
 
tre9er said:
Look at the grain they've crushed. If you see ANY whole grains, it's not good enough. I crush pretty fine (I also use a braid like you) and as long as there's some husks to form the lauter bed, you'll be just fine.
Click to expand...

+1

My first 3, or 4 all-grain batches I got terribly LOW OG and the crush was the problem! I have the braid like you too, now I have to tell the LHBS every time i go in to move it down a notch from 5 to 4 on their crusher and that does the trick for me. The last I don't know how many batches in a row now my OG has been spot on or even slightly high :mug:

Good luck!!
 
Yooper said:
Your false bottom/braid set up is terribly inefficiency for fly sparging, as is the shape of your tun.

I'd suggest batch sparging for your next batch, if you haven't done so. It will make a big big difference (and be an hour faster!) since your setup will not really work well for fly sparging.
Click to expand...

This! Batch sparge and you should get 10% increase.
 
saevans18 said:
Any tips on batch sparging? I've never done it.
Click to expand...

See http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

I think you can get slightly better efficiency fly sparging than batch sparging if you have the right setup, and take sufficient time. If you don't have the right setup, or try to rush things, then you can get terrible efficiency with fly sparging, but it's hard to get poor efficiency with a batch sparge providing you stir in the sparge water sufficiently before vorlaufing and draining.
http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixD.html gives what I consider to be good information on how to build a MLT suitable for fly sparging.

-a.
 
saevans18 said:
Any tips on batch sparging? I've never done it.
Click to expand...

Completely drain the 1st runnings. Add 100% of your sparge water, give it a good stir, rest for a few minutes, drain second runnings as you did the first (set grain bed, vorlauf). Combine 1st and 2nd runnings and boil.
 
I have a braid in a water cooler. My efficiency has increased dramatically by asking my brew shop to double mill the grain (when they're not extremely busy). This is just temporary, until I get my own mill. I also stir the mash every 15 minutes or so. I let it rest for the last ten minutes so that the grains settle and drain it entirely. Then I add all my sparge water, stir for a couple minutes, let it rest for 10, then drain. I vorlauf 2 liters of wort each time I drain.
 
I wouldn't worry about stirring mid-mash. The temperature losses aren't worth it. I never have and I hit 80% every time. Stirring extensively when you dough-in is key. I used a wire whisk last brew and was amazed at how well it eliminated dough-balls. My grist was like velvet.

I stir before each run-off, though. Typically I vorlauf about 60oz, pour that back in via a colander, and run off very slowly.
 
evans,

Are you taking your readings after you sparge or after you boil? How do your beers taste? Are they about what you expected or thin and more bitter than you planned? If your measuring with a hydrometer pre-fermentation, I've found those little hydrometers can be very inaccurate. They really are better for post-fermentation. Sometimes that little paper shifts, too. I've used mine next to refractometers and have been 10-12 gravity points apart at times. If your crush is even just a cracked crush and you don't sparge, you should be getting 65-70% efficiency no problem.
 
theDeutscher said:
evans,

Are you taking your readings after you sparge or after you boil? How do your beers taste? Are they about what you expected or thin and more bitter than you planned? If your measuring with a hydrometer pre-fermentation, I've found those little hydrometers can be very inaccurate. They really are better for post-fermentation. Sometimes that little paper shifts, too. I've used mine next to refractometers and have been 10-12 gravity points apart at times. If your crush is even just a cracked crush and you don't sparge, you should be getting 65-70% efficiency no problem.
Click to expand...

I've been reading the gravity after the wort is cooled down, post-boil, and about to put it into fermenter. My beers have tasted good, but I've never hit high efficiency, so I don't know what they could taste like with that. Quick newbie question...is it okay to measure the wort gravity once it's all in the boil pot before the boil or is it too hot for the hydrometer to handle?
 
tre9er said:
I stir before each run-off, though. Typically I vorlauf about 60oz, pour that back in via a colander, and run off very slowly.
Click to expand...

So general process is:

Pour in grains and water, stir, Mash for ~60 min, stir, let sit 5 minutes so grain bed settles, vorlauf and pour back in about 60 oz., drain until wort stops coming out (rate not that important?)

Pour in all of sparge water, stir, let sit 5 minutes so grain bed settles, vorlauf and pour back in about 60 oz., drain until wort stops coming out or boil pot is full

Sound about right?
 
Man... Your process sounds fine. Someone else might knit-pick it, but there's no way you're getting 45-50% efficiency. That's the kind of efficiency you would expect if your grain was whole-husk and not crushed at all. If you were getting that kind of efficiency, you would notice the imbalance in your beers. Are you measuring your final gravities, too? If they are around 2-4 points what you calculated, I would say that your OG isn't too far off.

You can measure your pre-boil gravity. You can take a sample of your wort and stick it in the freezer. Let it cool down to 60. It won't take much wort if you have a wine thief. That, or get a refractometer... but I wouldn't be concerned unless your beer is tasting way off from what you expected. If it tasted like you intended, who cares what the measurements read. There's too many variables with those hydrometers...
 
theDeutscher said:
Man... Your process sounds fine. Someone else might knit-pick it, but there's no way you're getting 45-50% efficiency. That's the kind of efficiency you would expect if your grain was whole-husk and not crushed at all. If you were getting that kind of efficiency, you would notice the imbalance in your beers. Are you measuring your final gravities, too? If they are around 2-4 points what you calculated, I would say that your OG isn't too far off.

You can measure your pre-boil gravity. You can take a sample of your wort and stick it in the freezer. Let it cool down to 60. It won't take much wort if you have a wine thief. That, or get a refractometer... but I wouldn't be concerned unless your beer is tasting way off from what you expected. If it tasted like you intended, who cares what the measurements read. There's too many variables with those hydrometers...
Click to expand...

The general process I listed above wasn't the one I was using. I was fly sparging for 30min-1hr and that was getting me ~50% efficiency.
 
saevans18 said:
So general process is:

Pour in grains and water, stir, Mash for ~60 min, stir, let sit 5 minutes so grain bed settles, vorlauf and pour back in about 60 oz., drain until wort stops coming out (rate not that important?)

Pour in all of sparge water, stir, let sit 5 minutes so grain bed settles, vorlauf and pour back in about 60 oz., drain until wort stops coming out or boil pot is full

Sound about right?
Click to expand...

Not exactly.

Pour in grains and strike water, stir extremely well. Stir some more, and then again. check the temperature in several places. If the same, cover and walk away for 60 minutes. If different, stir some more. Then cover and walk away.

After the mash, crack open the ball valve, then open it a bit more and put the first quart or two back in the MLT. Then drain to the boil kettle. You can run it wide open.

Measure those runnings. If your boil volume is, say, 6.5 gallons and the runnings are three gallons, use 3.5 gallons for your sparge volume. Add it all at once, stir like you mean it. Then stir some more, and then again. Crack open the ball valve, then open it more, and recirculate about a quart or two until the runnings have no grain or husks, then drain to the boil kettle. Fast is fine.

You don't want to drain just until the boil volume is reached, because you'd be leaving wort behind in the MLT, so you want to measure your runnings and subtract that from your boil volume to get the sparge volume.
 
Yooper said:
Not exactly.

Pour in grains and strike water, stir extremely well. Stir some more, and then again. check the temperature in several places. If the same, cover and walk away for 60 minutes. If different, stir some more. Then cover and walk away.

After the mash, crack open the ball valve, then open it a bit more and put the first quart or two back in the MLT. Then drain to the boil kettle. You can run it wide open.

Measure those runnings. If your boil volume is, say, 6.5 gallons and the runnings are three gallons, use 3.5 gallons for your sparge volume. Add it all at once, stir like you mean it. Then stir some more, and then again. Crack open the ball valve, then open it more, and recirculate about a quart or two until the runnings have no grain or husks, then drain to the boil kettle. Fast is fine.

You don't want to drain just until the boil volume is reached, because you'd be leaving wort behind in the MLT, so you want to measure your runnings and subtract that from your boil volume to get the sparge volume.
Click to expand...

listen to Yooper!
 
saevans18 said:
So general process is:

Pour in grains and water, stir, Mash for ~60 min, stir, let sit 5 minutes so grain bed settles, vorlauf and pour back in about 60 oz., drain until wort stops coming out (rate not that important?)

Pour in all of sparge water, stir, let sit 5 minutes so grain bed settles, vorlauf and pour back in about 60 oz., drain until wort stops coming out or boil pot is full

Sound about right?
Click to expand...

Yes, except I don't let it sit 5 minutes, I just start vorlauf. I run off slowly mostly because I don't want to have so much pressure that I get stuck/super slow runoff. I'd say 1/3-1/2 open valve is about where I usually run-off.
 
This taught me to batch sparge. Denny is the man. I saw his website link posted, but this is a BeerSmith podcast he did on the subject. Very helpful with many questions answered!

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Similar threads

Airborneguy
Interesting Efficiency Issue
Replies
8
Views
495
DuncB
D
N
End results with low mash efficiency
Replies
13
Views
812
doug293cz
doug293cz
S
In search of...predictable mash efficiency for differing batch sizes & gravities
Replies
11
Views
746
Deadalus
Deadalus
T
Mash Volume Higher than Boil Volume eHERMS
Replies
5
Views
553
Town9
T
S
Going from my old, simple set up to something more "modern", opinions?
Replies
16
Views
1K
JeffersonCoastal
JeffersonCoastal
BrewSwag 300

Latest posts

Back
Top