Disappointed in lagers!

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stooby

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Okay, I obtained a nice big commercial kegerator. I'm pumped about being able to ferment a lager brew inside it at the right temp. So I found a recipe online (a yuengling clone I think) & brewed it. Let it primary a month, during which I did a diacetyl rest. Let it lager another 4-6 weeks. Tasted it & it had this wang to it. Wasn't good. I attributed it to the corn & rice in the recipe. I had never used either before. I had mixed up the corn/rice/barley enough for 2 batches, so I used some roasted barley & caramel malt to make an amber lager in the next batch, hopefully to cover up the wang. Well, it too had the wang. I'm like, okay, Next will be a pilsner urquell recipe, with no corn/rice, it'll be great. You guessed it, it wanged also. I never really thought it had a butter taste, but I'm guessing it has to be diacetyl. I used 34/70 dry yeast, 2 packs for a 5 gal brew. Anybody got any ideas that might help me? I was really excited about brewing lagers, even with the extra time involved as my favorite brews are lagers. Thanks in advance
 
Not sure what you mean by wang. You mean twang? Sour? That's likely an infection. If so, be more careful about sanitation and cleanliness, and make sure you are pitching adequate yeast. As for the buttery taste, that's diacetyl. You should do a diacetyl rest toward the end of primary fermentation. Google john palmer diacetyl rest.
 
You mean "twang" not "wang" correct? :p

I've brewed a few recipes out of BCS and have been very pleased with how they've turned out.
 
What temp did you ferment at, did you pitch a starter, what temp was your rest. What temp did you pitch at, was it a step mash or an single infusion. What was you gravity (Og and FG). Let us know.
 
what temp did you ferment at?

perhaps try another strain of yeast, sounds like the common theme

if you are using same water etc then it's likely a yeast related issue
 
Apart from the obvious infection/contamination angles:

Perhaps an extract recipe using old extract?



And it could be the yeast or fermentation. Could be you woefully underpitched (easy to do on lagers), or pitched a strain that is giving you that flavor, etc.


Wang isn't particularly descriptive.
 
I used some roasted barley & caramel malt to make an amber lager

Blech! Roasted barley in an amber lager. There's your problem. It's like putting A1 sauce on prime rib.
 
I'm not 100% because I never brewed a lager. ( going to do my 1st one soon) but how large we're your packets of yeast? I know having enough healthy yeast go into your lager is paramount to creating a clean flavor throughout. Much more than an ale
 
Ok, I don't think it's a water issue since it's the same water I've used to brew some really good ales. From what I understand, you don't need a starter with dry yeast. Fermented @ 52 degrees, pitched @ 65. 2 regular sized packets of 34/70 lager yeast. Actually, the second batch I used Saflager S-23. It isn't a sour taste & I'm pretty meticulous about sanitation so I don't think infection is an issue. I'm pretty sure it must be the diacetyl. I don't think it tastes like butter, but maybe butter mixed with beer would give it this wang. Yes, wang. I''m from Texas & there is a difference between twang & wang. Wang = weird aftertaste. Twang is what you do on a guitar! (gittar) Ha! The gravity of the beers was average, about 5% ABV. I filter my water & I use the BIAB method of all grain. What method of diacetyl rest do you experienced lagermeisters use? Thanks again
 
I usually use the term "ass." If something is off, it tastes like ass.

When the fermenting wort is a few points away from expected target gravity (about 10-12 days into fermentation, airlock will show slowed activity) raise the temperature by 5-10 degrees. I usually pull mine to room temperature, but I don't think that's necessary. Leave this for a couple days, then it's ready to start lagering.
 
I only let my beers "rest" for 1 day. Maybe I didn't let them rest enough. How do you know when enough is enough?
 
You can taste it... I usually let my wife taste them, as she can detect diacetyl a lot better than I can. I would say go for 2-3 days.
 
make sure you do a google search for wang to see if any other websites come up that can help you with your problem. Also, make sure safe search is off. :ban:
 
So do you do a taste test before & after the diacetyl rest to determine when it's "done"? Do the majority of brewers use liquid yeast for lagers? I'm using dry because it's super easy, & I've had good luck with dry yeast in ales.
 
Lately I've been tasting them. It's considerable work, but it's worth it. I don't always do a diacetyl rest, but when I do I just let it go for 2-3 days and assume it's good.
 
Sounds like the OP is getting a bad case of wang. Use spring water.

 
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How did you aerate? I find proper aeration even more Important with lagers than ales. I think wyeast's website says you need like 12 ppm for lagers and shaking or aquarium pumps can only get you 8, so if your not usually an air stone with pure O2, that could be your problem - stressed yeast. Also pitching at 65 is a little higher than I like. I think it was Jamil who recommended chilling your wort into the mid to high 40s then pitching and letting the temp raise to 50 for fermentation. Starting high and bringing it down leaves that much more room for off flavors to develop during early fermentation stages when yeast are in main reproduction phase.
 
I used 2 11.5 gm packets of yeast, but I just stir the hell out of the wort & then pitch. Always worked for ales, but doesn't, sound like it will for lagers.
 
Yes that should be fine. However you really need to come up with a better description than "wang". It might be funny or whatever, but everyone here is just guessing about possible causes because you won't communicate WTF your beer tastes like. Does the flavor remind you of something else? Is it sour, sweet, salty, medicinal, etc? How about the aroma? Does that match the flavor, or is it only in the flavor that you notice something off? Please use better words.
 
I'm not saying wang to be funny, I'm saying the beer has a weird aftertaste. No, it's not sour, sweet, or salty. If it was easy to describe, I'd gladly do it. Yes, the aroma is the same as the aftertaste, just funky. It's not overpowering, but definitely noticeable.
 
Did you say you use spring water? For lagers you need really soft water. Do you monitor your mash pH? What do you use for sparge water? You could have too much alkalinity in your water.
 
As someone else just suggested, try chilling to anywhere between 43 and 47 for pitching, and then let ferment at 49-50. You could be picking something up from the 65 degree pitch temp.

And for diacetyl, raise it to 70 degrees, ***THEN*** leave it for 2-3 days, then lager it. You can't count the 1-2 days it'll take for the temp to rise as part of the rest.
 
I have done a few lagers with great results and now I prefer making them. I never had any problems with mine. I am responding to the post because you mentioned you might do a Pilsner Urquell next. Pilsner Urquell is one of my favorite beers and I even visited the brewery in the Czech Republic a few years back. I am conditioning my second batch of it now. I did one kit from Northern Brewer and one from Midwest. Both are good. If there is anything I can recommend, it would be to boil for 90 minutes with the lid off, use Wyeast Urquell Lager yeast, do a yeast starter, do the diacetyl rest for about two days, and transfer to secondary after 2 weeks.
 
Is it a sulphur taste? That's common in some lagers. If so, let it lager for a month or two more & it should dissipate.
 
Maybe it could be described as sulphur. Btw, i use filtered tap water. I think our water is fairly hard, but I don't do any ph calcs. I want to continue to brew lagers, so I'll try a longer diacetyl rest & pitch @ a lower temp next time around. I think I'll use liquid yeast also. Don't know the solution for the hard water. Thanks for all the help
 
My smartass comment probably doesn't build my credibility much, but I brew lagers over 50% of the time. Pitching at 65 and fermenting at 52 is to hot. I always pitch at 45-48 and ferment at 48-50. I taste a sample before I do a diacetyl rest at 60. And sometimes I don't need to so it goes straight to lagering.
 
i agree to try pitching a few degrees below your target fermentation temp

D rest should be started before active fermentation finishes, it won't hurt your beer if you leave it at warmer temps for a few days or more to clean itself up
 
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